Short kids=no zone

[ring-em-up12]

There is always that small kid in every league that has no strike zone to speak of, and has walked almost every AB of the season. How do you make it fair for the pitcher and batter so that the batter can get involved and actually play the game?

[mjr_2013]

Welcome!

In the younger leagues, it is acceptable to widen the zone... You don't want players walking around the bases - that isn't why anyone is there.

I have seen some umpires widen it as far as middle of the shin to bottom of the neck and box to box... And if a pitcher can't hit that zone, then I think it is because of more than just height.

This can't be done just on the short players though. If you are calling knees to letters on all 5'5" batters, it needs to be called on the 4'0" player too, even if that means a walk parade.

[JaxRolo]

I disagree.

Yes you expand a bit at younger ages but just because you have a small kid you can't be unfair to him.

One kid walking a couple times is not a walkfest.

Be fair to all.

[mstaylor]

A small kid should still get a honest strike zone. Now when he has a knucklehead coach that wants him to squat to further decrease his zone, then call almost anything over the plate a strike. That is an unfair tactic for both the pitcher and batter.

[mjr_2013]

I disagree.

Yes you expand a bit at younger ages but just because you have a small kid you can't be unfair to him.

One kid walking a couple times is not a walkfest.

Be fair to all.

I think you misunderstood me... I wasn't saying to be unfair to small kids, I was saying you need to call the same zone with each batter. You shouldn't change what zone you are using by their height... A 4'0" kid will still have a smaller zone at shins to neck than a 5'0 kid with the same zone, but it can make it much more fair to the pitcher, as well as more fun to the kid... It gives all batters an equal chance, and gives pitchers a better chance at getting strike, which they need.

I hope this makes sense... I'm not sure how to really say it, it is almost like I have to demonstrate it, and I have no idea how to on a message board. lol

[Umpire in Chief]

In a youth game the umpire should try to expand the zone as much as possible, without being unfair. It is rough with smaller batters.

[JaxRolo]

In a youth game the umpire should try to expand the zone as much as possible, without being unfair. It is rough with smaller batters.

Agreed!

MJR- I understand what you are saying but please don't go neck to mid shins. It's not fair to the batters. I don't think coaches would like it either.

[Richvee]

There is always that small kid in every league that has no strike zone to speak of, and has walked almost every AB of the season. How do you make it fair for the pitcher and batter so that the batter can get involved and actually play the game?

Granted, it's tough for the little guy to get good pitches to hit. But you have no control over him "getting involved and actually playing the game". He's got to realize he's got a tiny K zone, and the pitchers, for the most part aren't accurate enough to throw him consistent strikes. If he wants to get involved, he's gonna have to learn to swing the bat and hit pitches that might be shoulder or shin high.

[Richvee]

Not to be misunderstood, I didn't want that the mean we should be calling strikes shins to shoulder caps on the little guy, all I'm saying is if the little guy wants to be a hitter, he's going to have to swing at more pitches a bit outside the strike zone. The only thing we do to "make it fair" is call the same zone for every batter.

[T-Rav]

The little guy is blessed to have a smaller zone, if the pitcher can not find it, then do not reward him.

[carolinablue]

The little guy is blessed to have a smaller zone, if the pitcher can not find it, then do not reward him.

It's a blessing and a curse. My son was always shorter than average and although he was a very good hitter he was constantly getting high strikes called on him. These pitches were strikes to most every other batter but to him they were about bottom of shoulders high ( I'm talking HS ball as well ). He had to learn to hit the high pitch which was sometime difficult if the pitcher had good velocity.

[heathen]

"I was calling it cap to cleats and dugout to dugout, but my assignor says I need to shrink it."

Everybody in the park has a decent view of the vertical bounds of your strike zone, so there isn't much wiggle room for expanding the zone there. Yes, you can get away with it if you are consistent, but I think it's a bad idea to teach kids to swing at stuff that's chin high. With the tykes, I call them shoulders to knees. You, the catcher, and the pitcher are the only ones with a decent view of the horizontal bounds of your strike zone (no matter what the 3BC thinks). As long as you are consistent, you can stretch that by a ball or two either side of the plate.

If the kid gets on base, he is involved in the game. He has just as much opportunity to trip over fielders, steal bases, ignore his base coaches, run the wrong direction, and score a run as everyone else.

[mjr_2013]

In a youth game the umpire should try to expand the zone as much as possible, without being unfair. It is rough with smaller batters.

Agreed!

MJR- I understand what you are saying but please don't go neck to mid shins. It's not fair to the batters. I don't think coaches would like it either.

Ahhh, I see... I don't use that zone. One of my lesser liked partners did... I think he has contracted his zone since then.

[Jocko]

At lower than MS ball, I call "knees to nipples." The pitchers don't struggle as much, and when the coach sees it, he will make adjustments. As far as width, I give 2 balls out 1 ball in. They can foul the outside pitch, but I don't want to jam them with inside strikes making them ground out to F1. They foul outside pitch, they get another opportunity. Inside, I feel like I'm handcuffing them. Each his own, this is how I call it.

[mstaylor]

I use two balls above the waist no matter the age. Think about it, two above is the bottom of the elbows on HS kids. Two above for a LL kid is much higher than the older kids. It keeps your zone the same at all times but still opens it it for lower levels.

[Cajuncubsfan]

A small kid should still get a honest strike zone. Now when he has a knucklehead coach that wants him to squat to further decrease his zone, then call almost anything over the plate a strike. That is an unfair tactic for both the pitcher and batter.

I can not stand it when those little kids do that. 90% of the time if it's not to bad a pitch I will call it a strike. That and a catcher framing a pitch and holding it there forever waiting on my to say strike are the to things that can piss me off.

[Tyennie]

Great thoughts all. You might consider that the bottom of the zone is going to be fairly consistant from batter to batter within a given age group. We have all seen the tall and short of players, yet the constant is their knees are approx. the same height off the ground. It is the top of the zone that gets to be 'fun.' But if F1 can locate a pitch that is mid thigh on a taller batter, is this same pitch not at the belt on a shorter player? (examples only, not actual reference points)

[UmpireSam]

I only played baseball 1 year in highschool my jr year

I was 6'4 280 pounds

My strike zone was huge

Now in slow pitch

That space over home plate between the batters front knee and back shoulder as they stand at the plate. It doesn't matter where the ball lands behind the plate.

In 2001 Tracy Mc Grady played inour rec league.

He is 6'8 and the catcher could catch the ball standing up and it was still a strike.

[BigSimonia]

In a youth game the umpire should try to expand the zone as much as possible, without being unfair. It is rough with smaller batters.

"Nose to Toes; Dugout to Dugout"

Works for me

[Guest Coach Adam]

i am a manger of a 9u boys travel team. our last game we lost 14-6 we had 7 hits and the other team had 4. the other coach was blaitently yelling to his batters get lower, lower, stick your but out more. so needless to say they kept walking cause my pitchers could not hit the small zone. i know it is supposed to be a natural stance that the pitch is called on, but the umpire did not see it that way. i have all the respect for umpires cause i love the game. just tell me how do i get my message across to the umpire that he is to call a strike if it crosses the plate in the batters natural stance, not his modified one. please help.

[Jocko]

i am a manger of a 9u boys travel team. our last game we lost 14-6 we had 7 hits and the other team had 4. the other coach was blaitently yelling to his batters get lower, lower, stick your but out more. so needless to say they kept walking cause my pitchers could not hit the small zone. i know it is supposed to be a natural stance that the pitch is called on, but the umpire did not see it that way. i have all the respect for umpires cause i love the game. just tell me how do i get my message across to the umpire that he is to call a strike if it crosses the plate in the batters natural stance, not his modified one. please help.

sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but every strike zone varies. By rule, the strike zone isn't how he stands, it's when he strides to the ball. Without actually being behind the mask, all I can say is you have to find HIS zone.

[cyclonehokiece]

i am a manger of a 9u boys travel team. our last game we lost 14-6 we had 7 hits and the other team had 4. the other coach was blaitently yelling to his batters get lower, lower, stick your but out more. so needless to say they kept walking cause my pitchers could not hit the small zone. i know it is supposed to be a natural stance that the pitch is called on, but the umpire did not see it that way. i have all the respect for umpires cause i love the game. just tell me how do i get my message across to the umpire that he is to call a strike if it crosses the plate in the batters natural stance, not his modified one. please help.

Talk to the UIC of the league if you have one (I know that not all travel teams have one, but most good tournament orgs have one). Let him know. Maybe he will observe the umpire and if needed, give advice to help him call a better game. Also, that other coach is not teaching the game right IMO. He is playing to win at any cost, not teaching the skills of batting. Otherwise, Jocko's comment is what you have to do.

[basejester]

The first step is to make sure you're calling to the right standard. The Little League strike zone (for instance) goes up to the armpits. When there's doubt in youth ball, it's a strike.

[BRUMP]

When there's doubt in youth ball, it's a strike.

+1

[Guest Coach Adam]

ok we play by the NHSF rules in this league which the following is what i could find on the rule.

“Federation 2-35 – The strike zone is that space over home plate, the top of which is halfway between the batters shoulders and the waistline, and the bottom being the knees when he assumes his natural batting stance. The height of the strike zone is determined by the batter’s normal batting stance. If he crouches or leans over to make the shoulder line lower, the umpire determines height by what would be the batter’s normal stance. "

so am i correct to say he is calling it wrong?

[guyinaredhat]

ok we play by the NHSF rules in this league which the following is what i could find on the rule.

“Federation 2-35 – The strike zone is that space over home plate, the top of which is halfway between the batters shoulders and the waistline, and the bottom being the knees when he assumes his natural batting stance. The height of the strike zone is determined by the batter’s normal batting stance. If he crouches or leans over to make the shoulder line lower, the umpire determines height by what would be the batter’s normal stance. "

so am i correct to say he is calling it wrong?

I wouldn't do it during the game. '-)