Knob or Hand? What Do Ya Do?

[cuban]

Fastball up and in.

You know the pitch hit something...

But you don't know if it hit the batters hand or the knob of the bat?

What do you do?

What are the different situations that can arise from this? How do you handle those situations?

Please teach me.

[sdix00]

Use all the information available to you.

There will be some pretty indicative clues left behind.

[KLAH316]

What did it sound like?

What was the batters reaction?

Like SDIX said, Use all the information available.

When in doubt, what was your first impression and sell it!!

[Fittske24]

These can be tricky. First thing I do is come out and call "Time".... not dead ball....not foul ball, then I read the batter for clues. Like Sdix00 said, use all of the information available to you. Is the batter in some type of pain? Did the ball rebound in a manner that suggests that the ball hit bat and only bat? Is the batter up for an Oscar? Once you have processed all the information make your call, either a foul ball, a dead ball strike if the ball hit bat first then the hands, or a hit by pitch.

[detailshp]

I had this happen last year. On a BUNT attempt. Ball ended up coming to rest in fair territory. Only thing I would add to the other stuff already said, is don't be afraid to get your partner involved.

[catsbackr]

Batter's immediate reaction is key.

[Guest]

Only thing I would add to the other stuff already said, is don't be afraid to get your partner involved.

Follow with caution.

[detailshp]

Only thing I would add to the other stuff already said, is don't be afraid to get your partner involved.

Follow with caution.

And why would you do that? If your that concerned that a coach has a reason to yell at you because you need to "confirm with your partner" then your putting your ego ahead of getting the play right.

Unless you have another reason I can't think of at the moment. But it seems to me that more and more, at all levels, getting the play right trumps over all other reasons. The oaches I work with at the varsity, travel ball, and lower college stuff I do like the fact that I am willing to try and get the play right.

If you go to your partner and he says " I got nothin, I didnt see it " then you say no problem and stick with your call.

Am I missing something?

[yawetag]

First thing I do is come out and call "Time".... not dead ball....not foul ball, then I read the batter for clues.

Watch out. If the ball's in fair territory, calling "time" if you're unsure is not the wise thing to do.

[mstaylor]

The best piece of information is the sound. Generally there is a distinct difference in the sound between flesh and bat. Try to see it, definitely hear it, watch the batters reaction and sell it. Above all, even if you are simply quessing, sell it. Do not tell the coach you heard it hit. Tell him that you have it hitting him or you don't have it hitting him. You don't have to say you saw X or heard Y.

[jkumpire]

What do I do?

1. Time!

2. Look!

3. Make a judgement

4. Listen (since one side or the other is going to complain I got it wrong) :tantrum:

[yawetag]

What do I do?

1. Time!

2. Look!

3. Make a judgement

4. Listen (since one side or the other is going to complain I got it wrong)

Do NOT call "time" immediately. If the ball rolls into fair territory and it had hit the bat, you've got a live ball.

[johnnyg08]

Use all information that you can. Then make your call and stick with it. If I'm in doubt, I'm giving him 1B.

[Guest]

Only thing I would add to the other stuff already said, is don't be afraid to get your partner involved.

Follow with caution.

And why would you do that? If your that concerned that a coach has a reason to yell at you because you need to "confirm with your partner" then your putting your ego ahead of getting the play right.

Unless you have another reason I can't think of at the moment. But it seems to me that more and more, at all levels, getting the play right trumps over all other reasons. The oaches I work with at the varsity, travel ball, and lower college stuff I do like the fact that I am willing to try and get the play right.

If you go to your partner and he says " I got nothin, I didnt see it " then you say no problem and stick with your call.

Am I missing something?

PU is right there. He has the proximity to the play to not only read the reaction of the batter immediately but hear the sound - balls meets wood / aluminum vs flesh and bone.

On the other hand, your partner is 90, 100, up to 120 feet away from the situation and you're asking him to rule on a matter of inches from that far away. You need to have a good reason to go to him because you're putting him in a very precarious position. They may not even be able to hear a sound at all from that far away.

If you go to him and he doesn't change your call (and the opposing manager disagrees), in the mind of that manager, you've both missed the call. If he does change your call, the other manager is going to eat his lunch because PU is right there and BU is changing the call from an area code away.

When the request to go for help does come, if I've decided I'm not going for help, usually I'll be straight up with the manager - "I'm right here, BU is all the way over there. We both know if I went to him and he changed my call and it went against you, you'd eat his lunch in a heartbeat because he is too far away. The batter (went down like a ton of bricks OR didn't even flinch) and I heard the ball hit (skin first OR bat first)."

I had to make a few of these calls last year and can only recall going for help once - a glancing blow where the ball deflected virtually straight backwards after either catching a piece of the batter's elbow armour or the knob of the bat. I believed it hit the knob and the manager came out saying he thought it caught elbow guard. U1 (3-man, stationed at A looking down the line) said the ball did not change trajectory soon enough to have hit the elbow guard and U3 agreed so we stuck with my call. The manager could not manage a counterpoint to match the specificity of the explanation and did not dissent at all, returning to his bench silently.

[BT_Blue]

Use all information that you can. Then make your call and stick with it. If I'm in doubt, I'm giving him 1B.

Im with Johnny. When in doubt Im going HBP.

[Replacematt]

But it seems to me that more and more, at all levels, getting the play right trumps over all other reasons.

Data is showing that trying to "get the call right" leads to an increase in missed calls.

[johnnyg08]

But it seems to me that more and more, at all levels, getting the play right trumps over all other reasons.

Data is showing that trying to "get the call right" leads to an increase in missed calls.

Correct. Which is why you don't go for help just because they ask.

[Haid D' Salaami]

If you need to... take a look at his hand.. a lot of times you can see the ball marks on his hand.. it will help you sell it..nothing wrong with looking.

[Thunderheads]

But it seems to me that more and more, at all levels, getting the play right trumps over all other reasons.

Data is showing that trying to "get the call right" leads to an increase in missed calls.

Where can we read/see this 'data' ?

[detailshp]

Only thing I would add to the other stuff already said, is don't be afraid to get your partner involved.

Follow with caution.

And why would you do that? If your that concerned that a coach has a reason to yell at you because you need to "confirm with your partner" then your putting your ego ahead of getting the play right.

Unless you have another reason I can't think of at the moment. But it seems to me that more and more, at all levels, getting the play right trumps over all other reasons. The oaches I work with at the varsity, travel ball, and lower college stuff I do like the fact that I am willing to try and get the play right.

If you go to your partner and he says " I got nothin, I didnt see it " then you say no problem and stick with your call.

Am I missing something?

PU is right there. He has the proximity to the play to not only read the reaction of the batter immediately but hear the sound - balls meets wood / aluminum vs flesh and bone.

On the other hand, your partner is 90, 100, up to 120 feet away from the situation and you're asking him to rule on a matter of inches from that far away. You need to have a good reason to go to him because you're putting him in a very precarious position. They may not even be able to hear a sound at all from that far away.

If you go to him and he doesn't change your call (and the opposing manager disagrees), in the mind of that manager, you've both missed the call. If he does change your call, the other manager is going to eat his lunch because PU is right there and BU is changing the call from an area code away.

When the request to go for help does come, if I've decided I'm not going for help, usually I'll be straight up with the manager - "I'm right here, BU is all the way over there. We both know if I went to him and he changed my call and it went against you, you'd eat his lunch in a heartbeat because he is too far away. The batter (went down like a ton of bricks OR didn't even flinch) and I heard the ball hit (skin first OR bat first)."

I had to make a few of these calls last year and can only recall going for help once - a glancing blow where the ball deflected virtually straight backwards after either catching a piece of the batter's elbow armour or the knob of the bat. I believed it hit the knob and the manager came out saying he thought it caught elbow guard. U1 (3-man, stationed at A looking down the line) said the ball did not change trajectory soon enough to have hit the elbow guard and U3 agreed so we stuck with my call. The manager could not manage a counterpoint to match the specificity of the explanation and did not dissent at all, returning to his bench silently.

I guess I just dont agree with this. If my partner is unwilling to help, or feels that I am "putting him in a precarious situation" then he can go ref basketball. Also, how would a BU disagree with my call? He would say, I saw it differently,and we would come to a decision and present a united front to the coach. I called time, so immediately the play is dead, and I went for help with my partner. If I go to him and he doesnt know, then the result is the same. We present a united front to the coach. A coach isnt standing next to me while I confer with my partner ( or he will be asked to leave ) and doesnt hear the conversation anyway. Being forceful in your call doesnt mitigate the fact that your wrong. ( if you are ) You may have avoided a few arguments by being forceful and automatic in your call, but if you got them wrong and changed the game THAT is just as wrong.

[detailshp]

But it seems to me that more and more, at all levels, getting the play right trumps over all other reasons.

Data is showing that trying to "get the call right" leads to an increase in missed calls.

Point me in the direction of this data, please.

[jjb]

Research shows that 87% of all statistics are made up....

[scrounge]

But only 63% of the time...

Research shows that 87% of all statistics are made up....

[mstaylor]

But it seems to me that more and more, at all levels, getting the play right trumps over all other reasons.

Data is showing that trying to "get the call right" leads to an increase in missed calls.

Where can we read/see this 'data' ?

Just watch games on TV. Watch replays of plays where crews get together and most calls that get changed are wrong. I don't know that anybody tracks it but getting together rewards wrong calls.

[detailshp]

But it seems to me that more and more, at all levels, getting the play right trumps over all other reasons.

Data is showing that trying to "get the call right" leads to an increase in missed calls.

Where can we read/see this 'data' ?

Just watch games on TV. Watch replays of plays where crews get together and most calls that get changed are wrong. I don't know that anybody tracks it but getting together rewards and wrong calls.

Well, considering there are about 2,400 MLB games a year on TV, that surely wouldn't take up any of your time. Not to mention College, and the Mothership televising anything from 10 year olds on up........