detailshp

I've been on both sides of this mechanic. Personally, I have never not made a call, but I have certainly said "He's OUT" and immediately pointed to my PU and said " DID HE PULL HIS FOOT" I've had State tournament umpires working the bases point and me and say "did he pull his foot" without making an initial call, so I know that it can go either way. I don't necessarily agree with that, but If your in the right position as the PU, then when a partner asks me for help, I give it. I dont like not making a call for the simple reason that you can "lull" a fielder into sleep ( Is this the 3rd out or should I now attempt to throw to third and get the kid who is now advancing...now you got Fubar..) and everyone kinda stands around and waits to see what happens. Bet this thread gets talked about.....LOL......

Every call he made except for a pickoff attempt confused coaches ( and me ) because his natural ( I guess ) motion was to start a safe mechanic, and then do what I said earlier. I was glad he spent a lot of time in the B position, so he wouldnt get caught too far out of position. We never had a rotation to home for him, even though I went out to third quite a few times. Catchers were airmailing throws down to second most of the time, and it was a sloppy game that wasnt that close. Therefore I think I dodged a bullet on that one. He seemed to be hustling, and as far as the calls go, I thought he only kicked 2 for sure. He really was a nice guy. Kinda like the kind old grampa who nobody can ever get mad at because he' s into it, and is genuinely a nice guy. Thinking about it, he certainly could have been an asshat who because of his experience could have just blown everyone off. Thank the Lord he wasn't that, I would have had a riot on my hands.

Well, I had it happen last night, and I thought I did ok. Arrived my customary 40 minutes before game time and a VERY NICE co-worker who I had never seen before or heard of is already there in full uniform ( bases ) ready to greet me. Ok, thats good. He proceeds to tell me during the course of our pregame meeting and discussion about he length of service ( over 22 years ) and how he's been coming to this school for at least 15. So, I am thinking, cool, this should be a fairly simple pregame, and a nice smooth working relationship, and an smooth game. I go over what I like to do at the plate, our signals, etc, etc, he's nodding in agreement. Once the game starts, this guy is just plain awful. A few times I am looking down at him in the "A" position, and hes standing in fair territory. Mechanics are wrong, only flashes back or acknowledges about 10 percent of my signals, and every one if his "out" calls starts with him spreading his hands apart like starting a safe mechanic and then ends with him throwing his right hand up in the air. However, this guy is as nice as the day is long. Friendly, accomodating to the coaches, pleasant, but he just doesnt have much skill. A couple of times I had a coach come to me, and I simply told them, " coach that is a judgement call, its his call to make, and he made it. He was the closest to the action." They were asking for the inevitable "appeal" and I told them they can certainly go out and talk to him. The coaches just shook their heads and said, "no, its ok." They knew. The only thing I guess that bothered me was I had a lot of batted balls that could have hit the batter in the box, and this guy never once moved a muscle to help me with any calls. Other than that, I was glad the game was over, and thankful no coach decided to blow up my partner. ( and me in the process )

Hokieump quotes: "How I felt as a new joker? I lurked, and read, and learned." Pretty much sums up what I have been saying. Don't post. Did I get that one right?

What the hell is wrong with the board? LOL... I did not write ANYTHING close to that.......seems like April fools day is in full force.

'12 FED says in the "delayed dead testie table" that a batted testie intentionally touched by detatched my dawg equipment is a 3 yellow brick road award. An thrown testie ( including a pitch ) intentionally touched by detatched my dawg equipment is a 2 yellow brick road award. "IF they do not reach the yellow brick road anyway" 5-1-2b. numbers 5 and 6 in the table. In your case, since the testie did not hit the blindfold intentionally ( unless of course you could prove the catcher did it intentionally ) In my opinion, you got nothin. play on.

Well that went about how I figured it would. And, based on what is was written, especially by Hokieump, I would certainly NOT advise newbies to post on here. I am not a new umpire. I have certainly been given my fair share of BBQings. I don't mind. In response to your question, I have 8 games in already this year and out of the 8 weeks left in the HS season around here, I have 40 games left. Thats just my HS season. (Not really relevant to the discussion, however) I do agree that other forums are less forgiving. I have also stated on those other forums that I wouldnt post there either as a new umpire. Maybe Hokieump and you guys can come up with a posting guideline. Be sure to include the phrase "Remember: the gazelle that runs the other way from the rest of the herd DOES make it on TV; unfortunately for him, it's the NatGeo channel, and he's on there because he got eaten.) " I am sure the new umpires learning our craft would enjoy that line. It would certainly be better than "if you cant take internet criticism, then why the eff are you out on the field." I think your experience has blinded you to how you felt as a new umpire.

"Crusing around here on U-E" and "lurking" is what I would reccommend for newbies. I certainly would NOT throw (post ) anything out there. The long time posters on here are not to kind to someone who would screw up or post a wrong rule or interpretation. There was a ridiculous thread a while back where a post ( and poster ) got BBQ for throwing out something that ended up being a wrong interpretation. Man, did people line up to let him have it ( and no I am not talking about the taking signs from the rubber thread ) My favorite part was after the dust cleared, moderators and others tried explain it off saying that " as an umpire you should be able to take your medicine if your wrong, etc, etc, etc......" Well, thats BS for a newbie starting out. Did you say you had 6 so far? Youd have 2 if you encouraged them to do anything more than lurk around here.

I would think that the coach of the losing team needs a lesson in humility. Remember the college softball game a few years ago when the opposing (losing ) team carried the girl who hit the winning run around the bases so that it would be "official" ? Thankfully in Indiana, there is no protesting a game in High school.

Don't know how this morphed into a pay thread but here's my two cents on the play. One man, if I have to turn my back on the ball ( for example to walk back behind the plate ) I wait till action is over, and call time. I dont want any shenanigans going on while I am not looking. I'm way too old and fat to be trying to continually walk backwards to get back behind the plate. I don't have a problem asking a kid to show me the ball. You got deke'd by a kid, and in examining how you explained the play to me, it could have happened to any of us. In FED rules, that could have been classified as "unsportsmanlike conduct" if you really wanted to get technical. Sounds like you didnt have anyone freak out on you for the kicked call, and that is good. I often find myself having a nice firm pre game plate conference with the coaches about what they can expect from a single man umpiring a game. That normally diffuses any BS about missed calls. Sounds like you are hustling and got a good position, so only a real asshat coach would fault you for missing that one.

Been a long time since I have done any 12U short diamond, but doenst he go home anyway? At 12 U LL you can't lead off, If I am remembering correctly. So, no reason for the kid to throw to a base because there is no lead.

That kid could have been balked on every pitch. The first base umpire got him once. They replayed the balk call in slow motion, and then the very next pitch, also in slow mo, and I Tivo'd it, ran it back about a dozen times, and I couldnt see a difference between either pitch.

That florida pitcher that came in on the bottom of the 6th has a double leg kick and appears to come set twice. BU1 has balked him once already. Seen thicss kid once before. Anyone else seen this kids antics?

Varsity scrimmage two nights ago. ( 82 degrees out ) Check swing and batter still manages to nick the high floating curve ball, while he's pulling the bat back and twisting out of the way. Catcher is diving inside ( it was that poorly thrown ) and somehow manages to snag the ball on the foul tip, directly back to the mitt. I throw my hands up "time" and the catcher turns and shows me the ball in his mitt. Next mechanic for me was standard hammer for a swinging strike three ( it was strike two ) We all had a good laugh on that one. Coach for the batter sends out the 8 year old bat boy with a water bottle, figures I need it. I mustve turned about 40 shades of crimson. Partner worked the state finals last year, and hes got hands on his knees turned away from me cause he's trying hard not to bust out laughing.

Jm; Sorry. Not buying it. The rule doesn't say "appears to." It clearly spells out when he is to take a sign if he takes one. And it spells out what the penalty is if he doesn't. If your fundamental understanding cannot read a simple sentence and take it as its written, nothing I can do to change it.

I remember when the pitching restrictions started at the taking of the sign. And, I disagree with the concept that " since most know not to call it a balk." in its entireity. Again, what part of the rule is ambiguous? A pitcher can certainly decide NOT to take a sign, but if he does take a sign, it certainly states how he should do it. And, it also states what the penalty is if he doesnt. I think the wording is fine. And, I think that if you have a kid trying to cicrumvent the rule, you can certainly call time and give a warning and not enforce the rule. That of course opens up a whole separate can of worms, and we can certainly get into lengthy discussions ( and we have ) about when its prudent to enforce a rule, and when its not. The point I am driving home is that to blanket say that there is no penalty for taking signs off the rubber is false. There is a penalty. It clear what the penalty is.

I dont need a case play to support a rule. However, in my local HS association, we go over this EVERY year. Pitchers do not take signs off the rubber. As it was stated before, this is to allow a runner a chance to understand when he can get a lead, guard against a quick pitch, and keep the pitcher from intending to decieve a runner. I've been in lots of games where we have called this rule, and no coach, AD, or association evaluator has ever said a word about us calling the balk. I'm not saying that this is'nt a " don't pick that booger" situation, but it is certainly spelled out clearly in the rules, with an appropriate penatly clearly written.

Ok, this topic has been covered a bit, and I have read it thouroughly, but I want to know why it is NOT a balk with runners on base, for FED. I have the 2012 FED rulebook in front of me. I have read the first paragraph ( article 1 ) where it says "He shall take his signs from the catcher with his pivot foot in contact with the pitchers plate." Thats a complete sentence, with no ambiguity. Now, skip down to the bold section after Article 3 where it says: PENALTY " ( art, 1, 2, 3 ): The ball is dead immediately when an illegal pitch occurs. If there is no runner, a ball is awarded to the batter. If there is a runner, such an illegal act ( my emphasis ) is a balk. In both situations, the umpire signals dead ball. " So, unless I am not reading the rulebook correctly ( which is certainly possible ) an infraction in article one with runners on base is a balk. ALSO I might add, if your reading this as it is written, EVEN IF THERE ARE NO RUNNERS ON BASE, you are to award a ball to the batter for taking signs off the rubber. Let the flames begin.

Well, Add me to the list of guys who can't pass this one up. I got 2 pairs of plate shoes already, and one thats only a year old. 62.60 delivered to my door. They are backordered for a month now, but I don't really need them at the moment anyway.....

We dont have fees, but we have a simple rule for flipping games for a better assignment. If you flip a game to upgrade, your on the hook from the AD to find a suitable replacement umpire. Most guys pass the openings around the association, and then give a list to the AD for them to pick a replacement. Seems to work fairly well, and nobody has to get fined. You can't really fault a guy who has the opportunity to move up, as long as he can find a replacement for his original assignment.

What gives you the idea that anything your partner has to offer is better from an inferior position and a greater distance than what you have? Around here we expect the base ump to be looking in at the pitch. That way he can catch things exactly like this. If your concentrating on the ball as the PU and you lose sight of it because its coming into the batter and disappears into his body and you cant see it ( which happened to me at least 3 times last year ) then he is expected to help you out. His angle would be the proper position, as you can no longer see the ball. But maybe you CAN see the ball just like the MLB guys did on the infamous Jeter play. Just like the base ump would be looking for ball that might graze the foot or leg of a batter as he is in/out of the box after the swinging bunt. Maybe you really can see the ball no matter where it goes, and you never make a wrong call. Its all good to me. But, I will be asking for help if I have a question, and this scenario is one of countless situations where some help might stop you from kicking it.

Assignments are rollin. I could have a game 6 days a week from March 23th ( varsity scrimmage ) until May 22nd. I normally try and work about 4-5 days a week, and then SUMMER BALL. Attended 3 out of 6 of my manadatory association meetings already. I am dying to get on the field.

Data is showing that trying to "get the call right" leads to an increase in missed calls. Where can we read/see this 'data' ? Just watch games on TV. Watch replays of plays where crews get together and most calls that get changed are wrong. I don't know that anybody tracks it but getting together rewards and wrong calls. Well, considering there are about 2,400 MLB games a year on TV, that surely wouldn't take up any of your time. Not to mention College, and the Mothership televising anything from 10 year olds on up........

Data is showing that trying to "get the call right" leads to an increase in missed calls. Point me in the direction of this data, please.

Follow with caution. And why would you do that? If your that concerned that a coach has a reason to yell at you because you need to "confirm with your partner" then your putting your ego ahead of getting the play right. Unless you have another reason I can't think of at the moment. But it seems to me that more and more, at all levels, getting the play right trumps over all other reasons. The oaches I work with at the varsity, travel ball, and lower college stuff I do like the fact that I am willing to try and get the play right. If you go to your partner and he says " I got nothin, I didnt see it " then you say no problem and stick with your call. Am I missing something? PU is right there. He has the proximity to the play to not only read the reaction of the batter immediately but hear the sound - balls meets wood / aluminum vs flesh and bone. On the other hand, your partner is 90, 100, up to 120 feet away from the situation and you're asking him to rule on a matter of inches from that far away. You need to have a good reason to go to him because you're putting him in a very precarious position. They may not even be able to hear a sound at all from that far away. If you go to him and he doesn't change your call (and the opposing manager disagrees), in the mind of that manager, you've both missed the call. If he does change your call, the other manager is going to eat his lunch because PU is right there and BU is changing the call from an area code away. When the request to go for help does come, if I've decided I'm not going for help, usually I'll be straight up with the manager - "I'm right here, BU is all the way over there. We both know if I went to him and he changed my call and it went against you, you'd eat his lunch in a heartbeat because he is too far away. The batter (went down like a ton of bricks OR didn't even flinch) and I heard the ball hit (skin first OR bat first)." I had to make a few of these calls last year and can only recall going for help once - a glancing blow where the ball deflected virtually straight backwards after either catching a piece of the batter's elbow armour or the knob of the bat. I believed it hit the knob and the manager came out saying he thought it caught elbow guard. U1 (3-man, stationed at A looking down the line) said the ball did not change trajectory soon enough to have hit the elbow guard and U3 agreed so we stuck with my call. The manager could not manage a counterpoint to match the specificity of the explanation and did not dissent at all, returning to his bench silently. I guess I just dont agree with this. If my partner is unwilling to help, or feels that I am "putting him in a precarious situation" then he can go ref basketball. Also, how would a BU disagree with my call? He would say, I saw it differently,and we would come to a decision and present a united front to the coach. I called time, so immediately the play is dead, and I went for help with my partner. If I go to him and he doesnt know, then the result is the same. We present a united front to the coach. A coach isnt standing next to me while I confer with my partner ( or he will be asked to leave ) and doesnt hear the conversation anyway. Being forceful in your call doesnt mitigate the fact that your wrong. ( if you are ) You may have avoided a few arguments by being forceful and automatic in your call, but if you got them wrong and changed the game THAT is just as wrong.