Any BS from the stands?

[Paperipper17]

How much crap do you guys take from the stands? 10U game last night (which I seem to be getting a lot of lately...like every third game ). I'm working solo. First batter for VT I call out on strikes on a pitch about two inches off the plate-a solid strike at that age in that league. Of course, F2 barely gets a glove on it and it skips all the way to the backstop.

"C'mon, Blue! let the kids play! Let the kids play! Ridiculous!" I just shake my head. Whatever.

Between innings , the AC passes by me. "We're getting them that far outside too, right? Just call it both ways."

"That was on the corner, coach, and we're not arguing balls and strikes tonight."

"Just call it both ways.":HS

Well, Man In The Stands stays snarky the whole game. Apparently I'm supposed to call my Grade A zone in a 10U game (But only when his team is at bat.)

4th inning, HT at bat, batter walks with a man on second. R2 stealing, B/R makes the turn with his eyes on the pitcher and digs for second, and plows right into F3, who is staring off into space. F2 ignored the steal and threw back to F1, who turned to throw to first. OC beat me to the punch (yelling INT of course ), but I killed it for OBS a split second later. Sent B/R to second and allowed R2 to keep third, as he was only about two steps away at the time of the OBS. DC comes out to argue, saying that B/R left the baseline. A, there was no baseline as there was no play being made on the runner, and B, even if there was, no he didn't. I saw him round the bag normally. Well, here comes MITS again. "You can't let him make the call for you! Be a man! You the blue, you make the call! That's bull!" Yadda yadda .

Also, he's one of those "Coach Parents." Yelling instructions to every hitter mid-pitch and telling the pitcher what he's doing wrong from the seats. Lovely.

Finally, 5th rolls around, and there's a steal of third. I call the strike, bounce around the catcher and try to get into the best position possible. Looked like the runner MAY have gotten around the tag (Which looked like it hit R2's thigh right before he slid in), but I'm 60 feet away and I'm not going to safe a kid because F5 MAY have missed the tag when the ball beat the runner by 2 steps.

Here we go. "Let 'em play! You're horrible! He was under it! You blind! You ain't been right all night!" Like the regional cross-checker from the friggin Yankees is closing his notebook because the nine year old kid got thrown out.

I've finally had it. Spin around, point, and give my loudest "That's ENOUGH!"

Of course, I get to hear the chest-puffing "I KNOW he ain't talkin' to me. Kid don't want none of this. He BETTER not be talkin' at me. He don't know WHAT he gettin' into now." etc, etc.

I call HC over and told him if I heard another word out of the stands, MITS was gone. "No problem, Blue. Sorry about that." And I didn't hear anything else, save a little moaning and groaning (nothing out of the ordinary with the rest of the fans, though).

Topper: after the inning, AC passes me again. "He tagged him on the thigh, blue."

"Yep."

"Whatever. Call it both ways."

Another "That's enough."

Was I within my rights shutting down the fan? Should I have tossed the AC after his second "Both ways" remark?

My favorite part, though. As we're leaving-me, my girlfriend, and my two buddies working on the next field (one of whom asked "Who the hell did you yell 'That's enough' to about 7:45?" which I thought was hilarious), my girlfriend tells me one of the parents she was sitting near on the side opposite my new friend asked her husband "That does realize this guy's working alone, right? How the hell is he supposed to make that call by himself?" Guess there is some intelligent life in the stands.

Edited April 2, 2010 by Paperipper17

[zm1283]

The AC telling you to "Call it both ways" is questioning your integrity. You kept warning him and telling him "That's enough". If you've already told him you've had enough and he keeps it up, send him packing.

[kcfan102]

Of course, I get to hear the chest-puffing "I KNOW he ain't talkin' to me. Kid don't want none of this. He BETTER not be talkin' at me. He don't know WHAT he gettin' into now." etc, etc.

THEM ARE FIGHT WARDS!

Haha I know you're from Florida, but by any chance, were you working this games in Independence, MO? That sounds like the native tongue.

I'm sure someone will come on here and say this, but, you really shouldn't address the fans unless something very obscene is said. The first time that guy said something, I would have gone to the coach and said

"Listen, those fans are a part of your team, your responsibility. He needs to stop."

That puts the ball in his court, if he doesn't shut that guy up, he gets to go too!

But, the way you handled it shut him up so... no real problem with it.

It amazes me how some people can give a loner that much crap. Working by yourself isn't a picnic by any means. But then, there is almost always someone in the stand who does notice your hardwork and silently appreciates it... i think

As far as the "call it both ways"...

I saw this, and by no means condone this action but it was freakin sweet.

Tournament somewhere sometime, detail aren't important. My game gets over quick and I decide to go down and watch a game in progress for a few. R3, 2 out. R3 makes a mad dash for home on the pitch. Defense is calm and cool. The pitch comes in, catcher makes the tag... "HEAUGHTATHERE!" or something like that

OC comes down the line to plead his case that his player got under the tag.

"I don't know why you called him out, he got under the tag."

UIC goes "I don't know why you're stealing home with two outs."

Coach's mouth looked like this -->

OC said "You don't tell me how to coach my team"

UIC replied "Don't tell me how to umpire and I won't tell you how to coach.

In you're situation I would have told him that you'll take care of the calls and the coach can take car of his team. I think you would have been ok for tossing that coach for the second "both ways" comment.

[carolinablue]

One of the first things I was taught as an umpire was to ignore spectators. So I have umpired three years and have never said a word to a spectator UNTIL... Just the other day I was doing a middle school game and I'm PU. There was a guy setting directly behind the backstop and he started from pitch one running his mouth about every single ballstrike or call that didn't go his teams way. I'm normally pretty good at tuning out spectators but this guy was so close I couldn't help but hear him.

Bottom of the second, F1 throws a curve that just misses high and I ball it. The next pitch was another curve which just got the top of the zone and I called strike. " That's the same pitch, come on Blue. " I really didn't think about it, I just turned a pointed at him and said I've heard enough from you today and I'm not going to listen to anymore of that. The guy looked shocked at first and then said " where are you going to send me, the concession stand".

I said no, you'll be out of the ball park. I had already made my mind that I would stop the game if I had to, till he left.

Some guys on here will say I should not have said anything to him and just ignored him, and maybe thier right, but I didn't hear another word from him the reat of the game. If he had not been right behind the backstop, I probably wouldn't have said anything, but he was already getting some other people going so I knew if I didn't do something it would be a long game for the umpires. I say 99 % of the time you just have to ignore spectators, but every once in awhile you have to do what you have to do.

[catoblue]

The proper way to handle one of those jokers in the stands that gets so obnoxious that it makes your job harder than it already is, is to sit both teams on the bench, tell both coaches that "we're stopping until that guy leaves" loud enough for the stands to hear, and chances are you won't have to wait very long for the other parents to make sure the problem goes away.

As for Mr. "both ways", he would have said it one time and gotten a warning, the next time, buh bye!!!!

[JaxRolo]

I feel your pain Ripper!

I have been doing a ton of 10U games and I swear they are harder to work than the older kids.

I worked a 10U games 2 days ago and the visiting team catcher missed 90% of the pitches. I spend the night dodging baseballs.

The Home Team Pitcher was lobbing the ball so bad that I felt like I was doing a slow pitch softball game. Of course the catcher was catching the ball right in the middle but they were coming in too high for called Balls.

Of course the fans didn't understand why I wasn't calling those Strikes.

As far as the fans go just try to tune them out. I know its hard to do sometimes.

[JaxRolo]

UIC replied "Don't tell me how to umpire and I won't tell you how to coach.

Nice one!! I will remember that one!

[Stan W.]

Between innings , the AC passes by me. "We're getting them that far outside too, right? Just call it both ways."

"That was on the corner, coach, and we're not arguing balls and strikes tonight."

"Just call it both ways"

I know you were working a 10U game solo................BUT......this coach is gone.....this is one thing I wont tolerate is the above line....this coach isnt questioning balls and strikes, he is questioning your integrity at best....at worst he is calling you a cheater.....

Dump him..........and the crap you will get from this league will go down signifinicantly......

Do not engage the fans................ever....period.....No matter how they get on you...it lets them know they got your goat.....

Edited April 3, 2010 by Stan W.

[padist4ump]

I try to ignore the stands, however sometimes it's just impossible. Two years ago, sectional playoffs. Home team objected to every call I made (PU) and visitors griped about my partner. Nothing we couldn't handle till they started on each other, then each others teams, then individual players, all in the course of one inning. Thats it. As teams switch sides, I hold incoming defense in dugout an call both head coaches to an area in the infield between mound and first. Conversation went somthing like this:

"Gentlemen, if this continues from either side, I am going to start dumping coaches, starting with you" End of problem. Funny side was, as my partner and I were leaving, we pass by home fans who kept telling me I suck and telling partner good game. Walk past visiting fans, now I'm the hero, partner the worst ever...kinda amusing. Isn't it funny though, the lower the level of play, the more "experts" there are in the stands?

[Paperipper17]

One of the first things I was taught as an umpire was to ignore spectators. So I have umpired three years and have never said a word to a spectator UNTIL...

Same here. That's the first fan I've ever acknowledged...Idk. It wasn't so much the comments, it was the volume of the comments that got to me. Like, clearly audible from the parking lot. But I shouldn't have let it get to me. Still, at the same time, I'm glad I was able to shut it down.

I feel your pain Ripper!

I have been doing a ton of 10U games and I swear they are harder to work than the older kids.

I worked a 10U games 2 days ago and the visiting team catcher missed 90% of the pitches. I spend the night dodging baseballs.

I wonder if there's just a plethora of that age group in town lately. I can't wait for TC buddy...finally, halfway decent baseball around here .

I know you were working a 10U game solo................BUT......this coach is gone.....this is one thing I wont tolerate is the above line....this coach isnt questioning balls and strikes, he is questioning your integrity at best....at worst he is calling you a cheater.....

Dump him..........and the crap you will get from this league will go down signifinicantly......

Would you have run him after the first time he said it? Or warn then toss the second time?

Isn't it funny though, the lower the level of play, the more "experts" there are in the stands?

I love that. Every parent thinks they know the entire rulebook, all the situations possible, and have the best vantage point in the house. rats. All of 'em.

Edited April 3, 2010 by Paperipper17

[padist4ump]

Would you have run him after the first time he said it? Or warn then toss the second time?

Warn then toss I was always taught. But just one warning. and a simple "thats enough"...is enough

Edited April 3, 2010 by padist4ump
add sentence

[kylejt]

You've never said what flavor of ball you're doing. I can give you the LL slant on things.

I work in Pleasantville, so that makes me UIC Fife

We've trained our parents to refrain from such nonsense, as it's not what you'd want the kids to repeat to the umpire. That said, we've had a few knuckleheads over the years, and I've dealt with them quickly.

I've only had to remove my mask, and shoot them the "death ray" once. It worked, as the other parents dealt with the loudmouth. On other occasions, where I'm just spectating, I just go sit/stand beside them. That hasn't failed me either.

LL says umpires have no authority outside the fenceline, and they don't. But fans don't know that. I did put the kids in the dugout once, and told the BoD member on duty that drunk Grandpa leaves now(in a loud enough voice for all to hear), THEN we'll restart the game. He was quickly shuffled out.

There are some rule sets, other than LL, that let you eject fans, so check with your local first. The LL way is stop the game, put the kids in the dugout, and let a board member deal with the problem.

Me, I'm got one bullet for my revolver, and I'm not afraid to use it.

p.s. The ol' "that's enough" with the hand up STOP sign is the best tool in your bag. Once the palm is facing them, if they utter one word, they go bye-bye. It's simple, and quite effective. Try it. Every coach in my league knows what that means, and respect the hand, from me down to my 11 year olds. If fact, the LAST thing they want is to be tossed by a fifth grader (it's happened).

Edited April 3, 2010 by kylejt

[carolinablue]

.

LL says umpires have no authority outside the fenceline, and they don't. But fans don't know that.

Like I said, with the exception of that one instance, I normally refrain from addressing spectators. I have found however, that most spectators think an umpire can toss them directly. I figure why mess with a good thing, I'm not telling them no different.

[mstaylor]

First the coach, on the first "call it both ways" earns him a warning, the second earns him a short day. If the manager comes out to complain tell him he accused you of cheating and that isn't going to happen.

As to the fan, you just have ignore him. I realize that is very difficult sometimes but you have to. The problem is the younger the kids, the dumber the parents. As the kids get older the parents learn the way it is and most quiet down, some never learn. If the parent gets obscene, starts inciting the other parents or gets dangerous, shut the game down and get game management involved. If there isn't any then suspend the game.

I understand what I am saying can be very challenging sometimes but you have to try. I didn't follow my own advice a few years back and it was ugly. I was doing a Pony game, I was a manager and a BOD member. My team sucked and we hadn't won a game. I got pressed into duty because nobody was available. A parent was not just loud he was straight up yelling that I was cheating to some imagined advantage. It was the first time there wasn't a BOD member in the pressbox. My choices were to confront the unruly parent or suspend the game. Continuing was not an option because he wasn't giving up on the cheating remarks.

I told him the unsportsmanlike remarks were going to stop or either he was leaving or we were done. It got very loud and very ugly. He was sent on his way but it was not a good thing to have happen in front of the kids.

[yawetag]

One of the first things I was taught as an umpire was to ignore spectators.

+1. There are times, however, that the coach or manager should be told to take care of the spectator.

Last year, I was PU at a local kid's league. The fans were doing great. In about the third inning, I hear behind me, "What's the count, blue?" I ignore it. On the next pitch, I give the count.

The next batter, a few pitches in. Same area of the crowd, "What's the count, blue?" I give the count after the next pitch.

Next batter. Same thing. I finally turn around to see what stupid parent cares about the count. It's the official scorekeeper. I'm used to them being in the dugout.

After the half-inning, I called him to the fence and apologized for ignoring him. He understood and laughed about it, too.

[blue32]

I look at it a little differently, I guess, than some. The younger the kids, the more Johnny and Jane Jackass can affect the game on the little field. I don't do a lot of these games anymore except for state and region tourneys, but when I do, I shut down jackass behavior from the stands immediately. My reason for it is they can have much more of an effect on the psyche of the kids playing than they would have on the older kids.

The great thing is, we have a state commissioner for Babe Ruth that doesn't put up with any of that garbage, and he will walk someone out of the park for this behavior in a heartbeat, and back up his officials 100%. If he isn't around, I use the coaches as a tool to shut down out of control parents. I put the responsibility on him, and respectfully ask him to talk to them, and let them know that one more outburst gets them an all expenses paid trip off the property for the duration of the tourney, and the problem is solved.

I worked a 10u regional tourney 2 years ago where 4 dads were watching the regional final off of left field and across the street from the park.

mstaylor is right, though, the younger they are, the more beligerent the parents are. Some learn eventually, some don't. I don't really care if they do learn, but their antics won't be allowed on a game that I call.

HS and Legion is different story. They can piss and moan all they want. As long as they aren't inciting a riot, or getting vulgar, they aren't even there as far as I am concerned.

[mazzamouth]

I do not umpire LL so I can't no tell you about those fields...

But in College, I can't EJ a fan, unless he is threatening my life, then I will go to the HC/site administrator and tell him what is going on.

Fans are just that... FANS very rarely do you find a fan who knows what is going on. Leave the fans alone and ignore them. You have to get a deaf ear, or some thick skin...In a college game on fri, My partner was getting hammered from a fan... I mean bad, but I can't do anything

[JaxRolo]

But in College, I can't EJ a fan, unless he is threatening my life,

How often is this happening to you??? :banghead:

[Stan W.]

Would you have run him after the first time he said it? Or warn then toss the second time?

I've never been a person to deal in absolutes....each situation has a bit of HTBT to it........

If Im giving the warning, its going to be delivered with the sincerity of the 11th commandment..........and would leave some tail feathers scorched....

there should be no question that an ejection is coming if this behavior is continued....

[BrianC14]

I've never been a person to deal in absolutes....each situation has a bit of HTBT to it........

If Im giving the warning, its going to be delivered with the sincerity of the 11th commandment..........and would leave some tail feathers scorched....

there should be no question that an ejection is coming if this behavior is continued....

Agreed.

HOWEVER - - if it's a high school game, and this was an AC that gave out a line like that - "keep it fair", "call it both ways" etc etc., then for me, that AC is sitting down. His warning was given to him in this year's POE. If he didn't get the memo, then he can ask his boss about it. :D

[IHSAUmp08]

The way I was always taught, no matter what sport I officiate, is that the staff or field administration handles the fans. You can stop the game, call over the field admin or talk to the coaches of the home team. Let them know that the fans are out of hand, and that you will not continue the game until they are warned or leave the grounds. This way, you are not liable for ejecting any sue happy parents or fans. You handle it indirectly. I would never scream or insult a fan. It's not our job.

[Stan W.]

Agreed.

HOWEVER - - if it's a high school game, and this was an AC that gave out a line like that - "keep it fair", "call it both ways" etc etc., then for me, that AC is sitting down. His warning was given to him in this year's POE. If he didn't get the memo, then he can ask his boss about it.

agreed........NFHS has validated the the fact that Assistant Coaches do not exist in the umpire arena............

[SNIPERBBB]

Never had any special problems with fans at the high school level either basketball, which is the easiest to get yelled at, or softball.

But this rec league/LL stuff is nuts sometimes. You rarely ever gain anything by warning a fan or crowd, it almost always gets worse from there. What keeps me sane is the realization that 99.999999998% of the fans out there never seen a rulebook let alone read it...then you have the guys telling you they were HS officials and spouting rules that do not and never have existed.

[HokieUmp]

If he isn't around, I use the coaches as a tool to shut down out of control parents.

That should work well, since most coaches ARE tools to begin with....

sorry. that was too easy to let go.

[Paperipper17]

That should work well, since most coaches ARE tools to begin with....

sorry. that was too easy to let go.

well played