Paperipper17

that's about what i figured. It just bugs me every time I go there. Thanks guys

Kids, parents, and coaches are always going to say stupid stuff about things they don't understand. In a similar vein, as PU in a HS game, I ended the game by rotating to third and calling out a runner on a throw from right field. Leaving the park, my partner and I overheard a parent at the concession say "Good thing the home ump was paying attention. I guess the base guy forgot there was a runner on." That taught me two things: 1. They don't understand that nothing we do is by accident (well, some things may be, but they don't know that), and 2. They always assume that we're highly incompetent. No one but ourselves understand the things we do and the reasons for them, and if you don't just laugh off the baseless comments, you'll go crazy. It's never assumed that you put the ball in play. You have to put it in play. I doubt that coaches teach that, but if you enforce it, kids will start to learn. Don't second-guess yourself. You did the exact right thing.

I've been thinking about this one for awhile. At a 15u park at which I call often, the dugout gates are directly in line with the baselines from second base to third and first. In the pregame meetings, coaches are always instructed to keep these gates closed. Still, without fail, five or six times a game I'll see that an on-deck batter has left it wide open while coming out during a play. So, let's say that a B/R is trying to leg out a ground ball. F6 throws it away, B/R makes a turn to second, and F2 is there to catch the carom off the fence, likely in time to make a play. However, seconds before, the new on-deck better walked out of the dugout, leaving the gate open, and the ball skips in. Obviously it's a dead ball, but do I award the B/R second base, or is this possibly a form of interference on the offensive team? If it is, do I hold B/R at first, or is this a situation where I can award an out if I feel that the interference prevented one?

Nope. Until you put it in play, nothing can happen. You clearly said "No pitch!" No matter what the batter did, that means no pitch.

One field at which I work (WOB, for Rolando and any other Jacksonville guys) has a backstop that is about three feet of brick, 15 feet of net. Nothing unusual there, but spaced about every ten feet, right at ground level, are those hollow cinderblocks used in building foundations; I guess put there for drainage purposes. About once a game, a passed ball will shoot right through one and out of play. Also, several small diamonds I work have nets that extend from the backstop almost into fair territory (At one, the net actually extends about two feet into fair territory). Lose a lot of foulouts and have to duck a lot of baseballs at those places.

+1 I was taught to see it, think it, then call it. Since I started following that advice, I haven't had a single "Ou-safe!" and have heard far less chirping on bangers. And +1 to looking good. You walk on the field and immediately gain a certain degree of respect if your uniform is clean and pressed, and you're clean-shaven or your facial hair is neat and trimmed.

Just wanted to throw this one out there. Had 11U today. I was in B with R1. F1 picked, and R1 took off on first move and got in a rundown. At the end of it, the throw went to F3. He had to reach across his body (righty) to catch the throw. As he did, R1 bumped into his left shoulder. At no time in any of this did the glove with the ball get within a foot of R1. As soon as they collided, F3 held up his glove. I've got nothing, so I waited for R1 to dive back into first, then gave a safe call. DC came out and harrumphed a little-The gist of it was that I was just "looking for a call," because you know we just love to draw attention to ourselves. My favorite was when he yelled, twice, "I promise you he tagged him," after which I finally shut him down. Really wasn't even close. Anyone else seen a play like this? It was kinda the perfect positioning for F3 in that he was too close to get the tag on the runner, but far enough away that there was no obstruction before he got the ball.

My question exactly. If F3 must touch first to appeal, and since there is a no accidental appeals clause, does he have to get our attention to the fact he's now appealing before B/R makes it back? It seems to me this situation is unfairly biased to the offense...

Plate umpire goes up, 1B umpire goes home. You are correct. But it sounded like they were all pretty new at this 4-man so if PU didn't go to 3rd then it was a good move for U2 to take the runner. Pretty much. When we went over it in the parking lot that's what we decided to do. Terrell had the stick, he was the only guy with 4-man experience.

This is in response to the Force Play at Home thread. JNazz made reference to the B/R beating the throw to first but missing the base, and the defense having to appeal before the out is awarded. I've never had this situation, but I've heard the same thing before. I looked at the rulebook and found some conflicting info... 2-29-3 "...when a runner advances past a base to which he is forced without touching it, the force play remains." 8-2-8 "A runner acquires the right to the proper unoccupied base if he touches it before he is out." Both these rules would lead me to believe that until the base is touched by the runner, the force is on. But... 8-4-2(j) "A runner is out if he fails to reach the next base before a fielder either tags the runner out or holds the ball while touching such base...There shall be no accidental appeals on a force play." So according to the first two, the B/R in that situation should be out. According to the third, he is safe, and according to the no accidental appeals clause, the mere fact that F3's foot is on the bag and he has possession of the ball isn't enough for an out. Now, assuming that B/R has returned to legally touch first before the appeal, how does the appeal happen? Does DC argue that the runner was forced before he touched, or can he even actually appeal now that B/R has touched the base? Are these questions a sane person would ask, or have I finally lost it? Was the rulebook INTENTIONALLY written to be maddeningly vague? :bang:

No balk. Once he has disengaged from the rubber he can fake to the parking lot if he wants to.

2-29-3 "...when a runner advances past a base to which he is forced without touching it, the force play remains." 8-2-8 "A runner acquires the right to the proper unoccupied base if he touches it before he is out." IMO, if you're going to make the force call based on when the runner passed into the space over the base or plate, that's going to make those bangers at first nearly impossible :cheers:

Bases empty. Whether it's called a rotation or not, that was the only time I had to cover a different base. Third base umpire went out, so i took B/R to third.

+1. He throws the helmet, he's gone.

Had a DH scheduled last night. The first game I was BU for a 13u game. During that game, I noticed four teams-two 15u and two 18u-had shown up, but the park had only one big field. Then I noticed that two more of our guys were there. Long story short, the park scheduled two games for the same time at the same field. It's contract ball, so the park paid for both games already. UIC had already told the two extra guys he'd pay them regardless, as they both drove a long way to get there. I said, "Hey, why don't we run 4-man?" The senior guy there only had his plate pants, so he took the stick. For some reason I've always wanted to work second, so I took second base. It was a blast. Had a few close calls, and it was great to already be in position. Also, it was much easier to judge picks at second from the first-base side. Had to go out on two fly balls, and only had to rotate once, when U4 went out on a trouble ball down the line in left and I took the runner to third. The players and coaches thought it was great, and I can't wait to get another shot at it, whenever that happens.

Finding out who it was wasn't an issue, as the guy jumped right up and said it was him. I had no idea who it was, as he was on the opposite side of the dugout from me. Since it was a fan and not a player, that's when PU called the coach down. At that point the first base coach asked me "Why didn't he just toss the guy?" and I said "We have to warn the coach before we can eject a fan." As soon as I said that, I saw my partner toss the fan and HC, and I ran to get between the two of them (PU and HC) about halfway down the third base line, because HC tried to follow my partner when he turned to walk away. It was as I was trying to guide HC out the gate that I saw little brother step out and make his proclamation. I get your point, though. About a year ago I went to watch a game a friend of mine was doing. He ended up tossing one of the HCs, and to make a long story short, the guy and his AC got in his face. BU was standing out in A with his arms folded. Took my buddy a solid two minutes to get the clowns off the field.

I agree with you both, and I told my partner after the game that, while I wasn't faulting him because I haven't yet been in that situation, I would have given HC a chance to handle it before tossing him. That's how our UIC tells us to handle fans in extreme cases like that, where they're using extreme language or getting violent. According to the site director, it was the third time the guy's been made to leave the park (which of course made me ask why they still let him in).

I'm with these guys. Younger kids, no way unless its really twitchy. Older guys, depends on the level, skill, and situation.

+1 to Ump 24. If he steps back-disengages-basically he's now an infielder. Can throw it wherever he wants.

First off, it's good to be back lol. Had about 60 games so far this spring, but classes have had me running ragged and I've had no time to post. 18u this morning, pretty good ball. A lot of JV players and varsity backups. Top 3, no outs, R1. Home F2 makes a snap throw to first after a pitch. Runner goes in standing up, but F3 starts trying to shove him off the base. I kill it immediately and tell him I don't want to see that again. The two exchange words under their breath, but nothing I could hear. Next pitch, another snap throw, this time the runner dives and beats the play by a full second. F3 catches the throw, knees R1 in the head, and punches him in the ribs, hard, with his glove hand. So, he's gone. No grumbles from the stands, F3 didn't even say anything, just nodded and left. Next inning, VT at bat again, my partner starts hearing gripes about his zone (FWIW, while I thought he had a great zone. Maybe HT was just mad they were down by eight.). Finally, he issues a warning to the dugout. As soon as he turns around, we hear "You're horses***!" My partner spins back around and asks who said it. Turns out it was a player's older brother standing right next to the dugout. My partner calls over Home HC (who, for the record, hasn't made a peep all game) and warns him that if he can't control his fans, he's gone. He hadn't even finished his sentence when the older brother yells, "F*** you, Blue!" So, my partner tossed HC and told him to take the fan with him. Now we have a holy mess. Parents are screaming, coaches, including the one who just got tossed, are trying to cool everyone down, and in the midst of it all I see the fan's little brother take a step out of the dugout and yell "You both f****** suck!" Another whoosh. After that it all calmed down. What was funny to me is I had two pretty close calls the next inning, both going against HT. On a steal at third, the throw beat the runner but F5 missed the tag. I called him safe, and the stands started exploding again, but F5 yelled "Hey! I didn't tag him!" And in the bottom half, for the third out, the throw pulled F3 off, but he got the tag on the B/R's shoulder right before he touched first. Got an out on the tag. The fans down the line started yelling, so the kid yelled "He got me! Calm down!" Seemed like the remaining players were more interested in just playing ball than the guys we tossed. Great to be back on the boards, hope everyone's season is going well!

Absolutely. Sgvump is right; those generally go in the mid-$100s. Good deal.

About what I thought. Just something that popped into my head when I was supposed to be mapping genomes in Genetics. Thanks for the feedback.

Love my Reeboks. If it's blazing hot, I have black Under Armour turfs that are amazingly comfortable and breathe really well. But my Reeboks are great.

I personally would not. What got me thinking was a play I've seen a few times where the umpire awards time as the player is hopping on his foot that is off the bag, trying to stay up. I wouldn't give time there until the runner can stand normally. I was just wondering if anyone else felt differently.

Hypothetical situation I dreamed up in class today. Runner slides into third with a bad pop-up slide. He never gets his balance and starts to fall backwards. No hopping to stay up, never had control of his body, just falls. F5 is alert, and keeps the tag on him-not forcing him off, just holding it on his leg. As he's headed to the ground, runner tries to call time. Do you allow it or not? I was thinking no, seeing it as similar to a runner oversliding. I wouldn't call time (assuming he could get it out in the second before his momentum carried him past the bag) if it was apparent, due to his own fault, that he was about to lose contact with the bag. Any other ideas, or is there a rule pertaining to this?