First ejection ever - not by me, by my 16 yr old. Too quick or just right?

[scrounge]

My 16 yr old was behind the plate for a 9/10 yr old rec league game tonight. I was working another game and not present. Background - they use 16 yr olds and up with at least 2 yrs experience for plate umps for these games. They get a 2 hr clinic for training, so they're obviously not pros, but my boy has been getting some - shall we say - extra mentoring. Coaches are all volunteer parents, no training provided.

Anyway, HT head coach wasn't present, so an assistant was managing the team. Like so many new pitchers in the league at this age, the opposing pitcher was kinda lobbing the ball in. Not huge arcing softball lobs, but enough that the ball would cross the plate at the midsection and end up at the catcher's feet. These catchers may have put the gear on for the first time that day, they're not experienced. So there was building consternation with balls and strikes, with some loud verbal protests now and then but nothing too excessive. Then, it got ugly. Here's the game report he filed:

Coach Ejected - Report as follows:

Indians head coach was not present, assistant coach was managing team. Coach had been contesting balls and strikes calls throughout game, sometimes loudly, but nothing that warranted further action at the time.

Approximately the third inning, a pitch was high and inside, causing the batter to duck. I heard and saw the pitch hit the bat and go foul. Many parents loudly protested that the ball grazed the batter in the back before hitting the bat but I did not see it hit the batter.

Coach yelled directly at me, questioning the call. I explained that the ball hit the bat and not the batter. Coach protested, saying that the ball obviously hit the batter and he should take 1st base. I explained again that the call was a foul, the ball hit the bat but not the batter. Coach continued to loudly protest. I removed my mask and for a third time said that the ball didn't hit the batter and that a foul was my call. Coach said "come on kid, you must have been blind" or words very close to that (I distinctly remember the "blind" comment). This was done in a very loud voice, easily heard by all fans present.

I warned the coach for this. He then said in a loud and mocking tone "Oh, this kid is getting too big for his britches". I considered ejecting him at that point but did not. Coach was out of the dugout and continued, starting to laugh in a very loud and exaggerated manner. It was at this point that I decided that I was forced to eject the coach.

I returned to the plate but Coach did not move from the dugout opening, remaining on the field. I removed my mask and asked the coach again to leave the vicinity. Coach then left the field and the immediate vicinity of the field. I did not see the coach after this.

There were no other incidents after this.

When he called to tell me after the game, I told him to call the umpire coordinator and give her a heads up. Upon doing so, she asked him "Was this the 9/10 Indians?" before he said. Apparently, this coach had a reputation as a redass and she guessed who it was. He had loudly protested the competency of an umpire at the picture day scrimmage, a 2 inning unscored scrimmage the teams do just for fun as they get team pictures before the season started.

Seems to me that absent the "britches" comment, this may have been too quick. But when you throw in a public, mocking insult like that, he had no choice.

[SnareDrum]

Kid? That would've been the warning. Blind? Maybe tossed. Britches? See ya'. Some may say your son waited too long to run him. Overall, just right. Tell your son he did a great job.

[TommyUmp]

"Oh, this kid is getting too big for his britches"

This coach should also be banned for the rest of the season. 9/10 year old's should not have to listen to this clown.

[yawetag]

I'm not going to dispute the ejection -- it was warranted.

However, the thing that stuck out to me: "Approximately the third inning" The umpire didn't remember what inning it was? I would suggest he remember to write notes as soon as he can after the ejection. If it was a simple case of arguing balls and strikes, it can wait until the next break -- but something that's said needs to be written quickly, or it will be forgotten.

[gdpmumin]

I'm not going to dispute the ejection -- it was warranted.

However, the thing that stuck out to me: "Approximately the third inning" The umpire didn't remember what inning it was? I would suggest he remember to write notes as soon as he can after the ejection. If it was a simple case of arguing balls and strikes, it can wait until the next break -- but something that's said needs to be written quickly, or it will be forgotten.

I'm not going to dispute the logic behind your suggestion, yawetag, because it's obviously wise. I'm just wondering about the logistics of it. There isn't much room to carry a notepad and pen in your ball bag. You might use the lineup card, but in DYB, umpires are by rule forbidden to carry a lineup card. So I don't have anything to write with or on when I'm on the field. The first chance I would have to write notes about an ejection would actually not be until after the game. I know when talking through game situations in post-games with my partner we don't always remember the exact inning in which certain things happened.

Don't know what system the OP's son is calling in, but it's possible he didn't have the means to make notes, either.

[dumbdumb]

Definitely warranted. Didn't pop no cherry though.

This is why you try and get out of this type league as quick as possible. There are no redeeming factors when coaches like this are allowed to participate. Earl Weavers at this level are not needed.

Since the coordinator is well aware of this a$$hole, it is obvious by not getting rid of him that she is condoning his behaviour. These types of coaches are not needed and she isn't showing the ovaries to get rid of him, and therein lies the problem. You will run into a lot of spineless leaders with these youth programs. She should be telling you to warn him the first time he opens his mouth and to eject the second time.

Umpires should never have to put up with this type of abuse at this type of level.

Hurry up and get better as an umpire so you can get to the HS level, where coaches are much more accountable for displays of poor sportsmanship.

When they start that "blind" and too big for your britches insults, they have crossed way over the line and they know it. They are just seeing what they can get away with.

A great lady once said "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent".

Good luck, and once again this ejection was entirely warranted and would have come much earlier with experienced umpires. He would have been shut down way before the third inning just for the chirping on balls and strikes.

Get out of that league with that spineless leader (and yes she can eject me for that aspersion on her character, but also tell her to prove it isn't justified). You don't subject youth to this type of behavior at this level from adults. Let them go bully some adult in some other endeavor.

[yawetag]

I'm not going to dispute the logic behind your suggestion, yawetag, because it's obviously wise. I'm just wondering about the logistics of it. There isn't much room to carry a notepad and pen in your ball bag. You might use the lineup card, but in DYB, umpires are by rule forbidden to carry a lineup card. So I don't have anything to write with or on when I'm on the field. The first chance I would have to write notes about an ejection would actually not be until after the game. I know when talking through game situations in post-games with my partner we don't always remember the exact inning in which certain things happened.

Don't know what system the OP's son is calling in, but it's possible he didn't have the means to make notes, either.

I used to umpire a league where no lineup cards were kept by the umpires. I still carried a pen and some type of paper (I found card stock to be best) to write on, as you NEVER know when you'll need to write something down.

You're right that remembering an inning for a post-game is difficult. My father used to bowl professionally, and he could come home after a tournament and tell me about each frame, including why he didn't get a strike and what pins remained. I couldn't ever do that. At the least, though, you have a scorebook in the other dugout -- go to it between innings and ask what inning you're currently in.

[Mr Umpire]

I think he waited too long. After 2 explanations of the call (maybe even after the first one and he started to mutter something), the second one should have been followed up with "That's the call. No more discussion." Then, when he says something again, "That's enough" comes out. Then, when he makes his "blind" comment, . He will have had his warning and ejection done then.

[Mr Umpire]

There isn't much room to carry a notepad and pen in your ball bag.

Here is something to fit nicely in your ball bag.

http://www.ump-attire.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=DB4200&Category_Code=WRITING&Product_Count=3

[scrounge]

Unfortunately, as with many youth rec leagues, the power in coach choice lies with the league commissioners, not the umpire coordinator. And they do on occasion have a bit of good ole boy syndrome. Not that I know the particulars of this individual coach - but I've seen this play before. Things like this, supposedly "random" team selection magically resulting in the commissioner/coach's team being stacked with all the best players, etc. Don't get me wrong, for a nearly-thousand player suburban youth rec league, it's mostly run very well and honestly - but there are pockets of things that make you go hmm...

On the plus side, my boy said that there were no further incidents or sniping that night. He said the crowd of previously boisterous parents were in shocked silence the rest of the game, and another assistant began to argue a strike call but IMMEDIATELY self-censored and stopped before even getting a reply. Message received!

Definitely warranted. Didn't pop no cherry though.

This is why you try and get out of this type league as quick as possible. There are no redeeming factors when coaches like this are allowed to participate. Earl Weavers at this level are not needed.

Since the coordinator is well aware of this a$hole, it is obvious by not getting rid of him that she is condoning his behaviour. These types of coaches are not needed and she isn't showing the ovaries to get rid of him, and therein lies the problem. You will run into a lot of spineless leaders with these youth programs. She should be telling you to warn him the first time he opens his mouth and to eject the second time.

Umpires should never have to put up with this type of abuse at this type of level.

Hurry up and get better as an umpire so you can get to the HS level, where coaches are much more accountable for displays of poor sportsmanship.

When they start that "blind" and too big for your britches insults, they have crossed way over the line and they know it. They are just seeing what they can get away with.

A great lady once said "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent".

Good luck, and once again this ejection was entirely warranted and would have come much earlier with experienced umpires. He would have been shut down way before the third inning just for the chirping on balls and strikes.

Get out of that league with that spineless leader (and yes she can eject me for that aspersion on her character, but also tell her to prove it isn't justified). You don't subject youth to this type of behavior at this level from adults. Let them go bully some adult in some other endeavor.

[ukce1861]

Good EJ, just sounds like it was too late. Your son needs to learn (like I did) that you don't need to take three innings of "commentary" on your strike zone. I understand the comments were not "severe" enough to "warrant further action", but the Ignore, Acknowledge, Warn, Eject procedure should have been initiated pretty early on. Let the first couple of comments go, then acknowledge them with a stare. After that, give the warning. I've found as I started using this that coaches rarely got out of control to begin with. I think this is a combination of a few things (one, I got better, so there was less to gripe about), but a lot of it has to do with, if you don't let them get away with the little stuff, they never try the big stuff...

You might use the lineup card, but in DYB, umpires are by rule forbidden to carry a lineup card.

What??? Why?

[gdpmumin]

There isn't much room to carry a notepad and pen in your ball bag.

Here is something to fit nicely in your ball bag.

http://www.ump-attir...Product_Count=3

Looks like a great product. I'll definitely look into that. Thanks for the link.

[benrosen]

How on earth could this possibly be too quick? This ejection took way to long in my opinion. ukce1861 covered this already but when you have a guy contesting balls and strikes through out the game, he's already worn out his leash. Then he "yelled at me directly" and you give him an explanation 3 times?? How is he still in the game? Then he calls you blind and you warn him?? This is ludicrous at this point. Then he makes another comment about "britches" and hes still in the game. Nothing more to say...

[mtnump]

Seeing as how the umpire in question is a 16 year old without a lot of experience, I would suggest that there was some hesitation because he didn't want to be too quick. He is not sure what is iron clad defensible on his part so he waited until he had more than enough. Did he take more than we would? Probably. When we were just learning did we take more than we do now? Probably. It may have been the first, but if he stays with it, it surely won't be the last and the leash will get shorter!!!

[SnareDrum]

Seeing as how the umpire in question is a 16 year old without a lot of experience, I would suggest that there was some hesitation because he didn't want to be too quick. He is not sure what is iron clad defensible on his part so he waited until he had more than enough. Did he take more than we would? Probably. When we were just learning did we take more than we do now? Probably. It may have been the first, but if he stays with it, it surely won't be the last and the leash will get shorter!!!

Well said!

[noumpere]

There isn't much room to carry a notepad and pen in your ball bag. You might use the lineup card, but in DYB, umpires are by rule forbidden to carry a lineup card. So I don't have anything to write with or on when I'm on the field.

Then take an old lineup card from a previous game or a piece of notebook paper folded to fit and put it in your ball bag pocket with your pen or pencil. Heck you probablyshould carry a pen and paper on the bases as well because you could get an ejection there as well.

[yawetag]

Then take an old lineup card from a previous game or a piece of notebook paper folded to fit and put it in your ball bag pocket with your pen or pencil. Heck you probablyshould carry a pen and paper on the bases as well because you could get an ejection there as well.

Always, ALWAYS carry a pen and a piece of paper. ALWAYS.

[moblue]

I will agree with the group that says he waited too long to eject. However, I remember that it took me several (at least three) YEARS of umpiring before I was comfortable enough to throw anyone out. That means that when I was 16 I did not eject anyone. Ejecting people is a learning process, just like other aspects of the game. My hesitation then was based on the fact that an ejection was the most severe penalty an umpire could use. I was always afraid of being wrong. Since then I have learned when to eject and for what reasons. My first ejection had its own massive screw ups and complications, and he handled his first ejection better than I handled mine. His actions were more than warranted by the time he finally ejected. For me though, I would have tossed him for using the word "blind" directed at me.

[catoblue]

A good toss, and just from reading the OP, he actually gave the coach too much slack (waited too long to dump him). The second time he explained the call (mask off), the explanation should have ended with a stern "That's enough" with a stop sign. Any continued discussion on the matter and buh-bye!. Even if you go a bit on the lenient side of things and let that go as far as it did, the "blind" comment is an automatic.

[Replacematt]

This is why leagues that use youth umpires need to assert and enforce that they will support their umpires' decisions from day one. I got a reputation in the LL where I started umpiring as being a hard-ass (at age 16.) Maybe the art of umpiring came naturally to me, I don't know; but the BoD supported me on what happened. I was the UIC at 19, which was the last year I worked LL (because I had moved on to higher levels.) I wonder how many umpires we could have developed in my age cohort had they known they had the support to grow.

[Thunderheads]

if the comment was "you must have been blind" ...................... there's the magic word ..... right there he's gone

And even if you doubted yourself afterwards, the assignor asking what team it was before the explanation is JUSTIFICATION baby!! :beerbang

[yawetag]

if the comment was "you must have been blind" ...................... there's the magic word ..... right there he's gone

Blind?

[Thunderheads]

if the comment was "you must have been blind" ...................... there's the magic word ..... right there he's gone

Blind?

Andrew!! Come on .... :rolleyes:

[mjr_2013]

I'm 16 as well, and I had to warn someone today for the first time in my career.

I was assaigned to work the bases for a 12u game between the team that the league President coaches and the team that the Vice President coaches. Just before the top of the 2nd, the Vice President got a call from a coach at another field telling him that the BU didn't show up and that the PU (only 17) was overwhelmed coaching a 13u game... He calls me over and gets a baseball mom to drive me to the other field... I get there in the top of the second, get caught up on the game, and take my position.

In the top of the third with two outs, a ball gets by the catcher, bounces off the backstop of comes right back to him. R1 had taken off for 2nd, and he was tagged out... The manager (also 3rd base coach) comes to me and we have the following exchange.

Manager: hey Blue, I gotta question for you.

Me: Alright, what's that?

Manager: (sarcasticlly) Even when the ball reaches the base first, the tag needs to be made, correct?

Me: Yes sir

Manager: Then why was he out?

Me: Because the tag was made on his arm pit before he got the bag.

^His argument was warrented here, the slide was almost under the tag.

In the top of the 4th, a ball is hit to F6. He bobbles the ball, but comes up gunning. I call Safe - Fielder is off the bag... When I made the call, the Away Coach came out of the dugout expecting me to call him out... When he discovers the actual call, he is all "Good Call Blue, good call"

In the top of the 5th, a slow grounder is hit to the 3rd base side. Same type of play as the last, but this time the F3 kept his toe on the base for the out. The away manager nearly explodes, calling for an appeal and that I don't know what I'm talking about, etc... In our league, if the coach asks one of the umpires to ask the other and the appeal is somewhat warrented, we are required to ask... I ask, and the PU has the same call.

We come into the bottom of the 5th with the game tied 7-7, and as I take my position in A, F4 is telling the shortstop "Hey ____, you were safe, that is ridiculous"... I thought it was intentional but ignored it... The first batter walks, and as I go into B and pass him, F4 loudly says "We should still be batting!"... At this point, I turned to him, pointed, and told him "Enough!". And guess what! I didn't hear another peep from him about it!

Rest of the game went fine, the HT won on a walk off.

[kylejt]

I've been training youth umpires for years. 16 is plenty old enough to put the hammer to knuckleheads. Just for some background, I put 12 year olds behind the plate in 9-11 games, had 14 year olds work 11-12 Division, and Senior softball, and last year had 15 year olds work an 11-12 Section dish, and the plate on the 9-10 Section championship. I also have a 15 year old WR Instructor. How's that for my resume?

Have your son practice this one important move. With his mask on, have him raise his right hand up at shoulder level, palm toward the loudmouth. Then, in a firm voice, state "That's enough!", while keeping the hand up for about three seconds, with direct eye contact being made. This is a verbal and visual STOP sign, that anyone should understand. If the clown wishes to blow through it with any more comments, the right hand makes the easy toss. No big theatrics, just an easy finger waved off the field. It's that simple to get command, control and respect. In a dozen years, I've only had one guy go through my STOP sign, and he wanted to get tossed to fire up his team.

I usually lose my Junior umpires once they turn 16. Between girls and cars, I can't compete. But between 11 and 15 we can teach them some pretty valuable skills, both for on the ball field, and off.