Timing plays with less than 2 out at TOP

[ValleyUmp]

Putting it out there for the veterans: should we adjust the timing play signal (which I've been trained to give/receive only with an R2 and two outs)?

Seems that non-standard time plays happen quite a bit. I've heard and read about several, then just had one Sunday. I'm PU.

14U, R1/R3, one out. Sharp one-hop ground ball to F3 (holding R1 on). F3 steps on 1B for Out #2 and throws to 2B. R1 stops and retreats JUST long enough so that R3 touches home plate a split second before R1 gets tagged midway between 1B and 2B for Out #3.

I score the run. No one complains (it changed the score from 11-5 to 11-6, trailing team would lose 13-6) but I thought about how I only made the basic 1st-to-3rd rotation signal. In a close game, that run could've been hugely consequential, and my partner and I weren't thinking about the scenario pre-play.

Thoughts?

[noumpere]

In theory, you could have a time play when outs+runners = > 3

Yes, the signal should be given more than it is.

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, noumpere said:

In theory, you could have a time play when outs+runners = > 3

Yes, the signal should be given more than it is.

I had a conversation with Brennan Miller on Refmasters. He signals it with 1 out cnbfigs also to remind himself. 

[SH0102]

Another formula (I find easier)

If the total runners (including batter) is more than outs to get, it’s a time play.

In your situation, 2 runners and a batter is 3, which is more than the 2 outs needed, so time play.

I always find it humorous when time is signaled with r3 only and 2 outs. It technically is but only situation it could happen is if r3 blew a hammy and crawled to plate as batter is tagged out after acquiring first and going to second. But alas, it isn’t wrong to signal it

[The Man in Blue]

I'll be that guy . . . the time play signal should just be retired.  It is one more step in the hokey pokey too many umpires do.

[MadMax]

12 hours ago, Jimurray said:

I had a conversation with Brennan Miller on Refmasters. He signals it with 1 out cnbfigs also to remind himself. 

“He signals it…” meaning… he’s the PU? The BUs have no jurisdiction over a Time Play (unless, in an incredibly rare instance of a 3/4/6-man rotation of U1 home). And if, according to Official Umpire Pecking Order Protocol (OUPOP)™, the PU is to be the origin of all pre-pitch signals… then who is the Time Play signal for??  

Right, it’s for the PU. He’s signaling himself. So, it’s not needed. The only reason BUs (need to) mirror it is… compliance. 

 

[BigBlue4u]

10 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

I'll be that guy . . . the time play signal should just be retired.  It is one more step in the hokey pokey too many umpires do.

Of course you are kidding.  Missing a timing play could cost a team a game

[JSam21]

10 hours ago, MadMax said:

“He signals it…” meaning… he’s the PU? The BUs have no jurisdiction over a Time Play (unless, in an incredibly rare instance of a 3/4/6-man rotation of U1 home). And if, according to Official Umpire Pecking Order Protocol (OUPOP)™, the PU is to be the origin of all pre-pitch signals… then who is the Time Play signal for??  

Right, it’s for the PU. He’s signaling himself. So, it’s not needed. The only reason BUs (need to) mirror it is… compliance. 

 

Which is why I rarely give it. There is no reason to remind my partner who has no responsibility on a time play that there is a possibility of a time play. 

 

[MadMax]

On 6/8/2026 at 11:01 PM, ValleyUmp said:

so that R3 touches home plate a split second before R1 gets tagged midway between 1B and 2B for Out #3.

I score the run.

Didja perform your best, booming, “That run scores! That run scores! Score one run!!”? 

That signal / mechanic is much more important than tapping your wrist repeatedly, growing ever more annoyed with your BU partner because he won’t mirror it back like a good little sidekick peon is supposed to! 
Why? Because it’s an actual declaration that you know the Rule, instead of a vapid, lemming-esque, compliant obsession with “we must communicate pre-pitch because we’ll get dinged on an evaluation if we don’t!” 

My fellow Vulture and I did a game once wherein we rarely, if ever, signaled anything pre-pitch. It must have been our 200th game together by that time. It just so happened that a MiLB umpire was included on the payroll on that tournament event by the assigner to act as a roving evaluator. That’s fine, that’s the assigner’s prerogative. After the game, the evaluator approached the two of us, proffering feedback; chief amongst it was, “You guys don’t signal pre-pitch. Do you not know the pre-pitch signals?” My fellow Vulture – and housemate – looked at him, then at me, then back at him, to reply, “Max is my roommate”. 

If you’re working with guys who are, essentially, interchangeable then sure, pre-pitch signaling is a significant part of effective communication. But if you’re working with guys you’re familiar with, pre-pitch signaling – especially one that has little to no purpose for the recipient – is useless. 

I’ve witnessed valued and competent colleagues give football play signals between at-bats, just to “liven up” the game. 

[The Man in Blue]

@MadMax … excellent commentary; may I add a personal pet peeve?

NFHS games are becoming more and more clock-focused, as is the evolution of the game.  We aren’t on a hard pitch clock, but we have a pitch clock.  Games are having time limits introduced.  Pace of play, keep them to their 60 seconds between innings, get that batter in the box in his time limit …

BUT DO NOT DARE TAKE A TIMEPIECE ON THE FIELD!!  That’s a bad look!  Do you see The Pros wearing watches?!  If you look at your wrist, people think you have better things to do and you don’t want to be there.  People will think you are just calling outs to go home.  Do not EVER let them think you are influenced by time.

So, now that I have said all that, do NOT forget to give the time play signal which is … pointing to your “watch.”

At least once a season, I have had somebody “see that for the first time” and ask … why are you signaling the game is almost over?  Oh, I thought you were telling your partner to hurry up because you needed to be somewhere.  Dinner plans?

[The Man in Blue]

4 hours ago, BigBlue4u said:

Of course you are kidding.  Missing a timing play could cost a team a game

I thought that strike you called in the second inning cost them the game?

[Velho]

49 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

So, now that I have said all that, do NOT forget to give the time play signal which is … pointing to your “watch.”

At least once a season, I have had somebody “see that for the first time” and ask … why are you signaling the game is almost over?  Oh, I thought you were telling your partner to hurry up because you needed to be somewhere.  Dinner plans?

Do you consult for LL? This is supposedly why "they" (only heard it virally and not first hand but understand it's coming from the head UIC (and maybe Gerry?)) are phasing out the wrist tap for two fingers straight down.

[Velho]

14 hours ago, MadMax said:

And if, according to Official Umpire Pecking Order Protocol (OUPOP)™, the PU is to be the origin of all pre-pitch signals… then who is the Time Play signal for??  

Agreed this is poppycock. Which is why I go out of my way to tell my partners they can initiate signals.

[MadMax]

6 hours ago, BigBlue4u said:

Of course you are kidding.  Missing a timing play could cost a team a game

But again... who'd be missing the time (timing) play? Plate Umpire. Base umpire has no bearing on it. 

And again, in the OUPOP that we obsess over ("don't step on your partner's d!ck!", said so eloquently), who is supposed to give the signal??

[Velho]

18 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

I'll be that guy . . . the time play signal should just be retired.  It is one more step in the hokey pokey too many umpires do.

3 hours ago, MadMax said:

My fellow Vulture and I did a game once wherein we rarely, if ever, signaled anything pre-pitch.

My $0.02: do whatever is needed to get the job done, whether that means signals between partners, whoever initiating, whatever the signals are. If you pregame it (or the implicit understanding exists), it's all good.

Regardless, if you need them, do them. As I get back into / learn the intricacies of 90ft 4-umpire (R3 Only still getting me to think twice), I do signals for my own benefit. They may not be conventional but they're of value for me (especially last night as U1, R1 being held on with R3/R1 and I grokked that even though I'm in tight I've got CF in to the RF line and reverse rotation). Until I've got it cold I'll do them.

If you want mirror for validation, ask for it. I know if I'm having a hard plate game, BU mirroring my signals can help me feel supported and get me out of my own head.

[The Man in Blue]

2 hours ago, Velho said:

Do you consult for LL? This is supposedly why "they" (only heard it virally and not first hand but understand it's coming from the head UIC (and maybe Gerry?)) are phasing out the wrist tap for two fingers straight down.

I don’t know anything about LL, so I’m curious what they are replacing it with.

If I have to signal, I give the “two finger V” and tap the side of my fingers to the side of my wrist.

[Velho]

12 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

LL, so I’m curious what they are replacing it with.

One handed 2 finger V* starting up and then pointing straight down

* The nice 'peace' version. Not the other one that anglophiles may think of.

[Kevin_K]

On 6/10/2026 at 12:33 PM, The Man in Blue said:

BUT DO NOT DARE TAKE A TIMEPIECE ON THE FIELD!!  That’s a bad look!  Do you see The Pros wearing watches?!  If you look at your wrist, people think you have better things to do and you don’t want to be there.  People will think you are just calling outs to go home.  Do not EVER let them think you are influenced by time.

I am required to bring a time piece on the field with me when I officiate collegiate ball since none of the fields I work have operating clocks when these games are played.

In fact, I carry two. I have the timer for pitch clock violations and a stopwatch for between innings and pitching changes.

[MadMax]

2 hours ago, Kevin_K said:

since none of the fields I work have operating clocks when these games are played.

And they never* will. It's just not important (enough) to "them". 

2 hours ago, Kevin_K said:

I have the timer for pitch clock violations and a stopwatch for between innings and pitching changes.

Huh! What a shame! Wouldn't it be nice & effective to have a device that did exactly what we (umpires) needed it to? With digital interface? And reprogrammable to the intervals that "they" keep changing / futzing with / modifying? 🤔

Huh! Maybe it's something the NCAA/NAIA/NJCAA could look into, or commission? 

[umpstu]

On 6/10/2026 at 11:33 AM, The Man in Blue said:

@MadMax … excellent commentary; may I add a personal pet peeve?

NFHS games are becoming more and more clock-focused, as is the evolution of the game.  We aren’t on a hard pitch clock, but we have a pitch clock.  Games are having time limits introduced.  Pace of play, keep them to their 60 seconds between innings, get that batter in the box in his time limit …

BUT DO NOT DARE TAKE A TIMEPIECE ON THE FIELD!!  That’s a bad look!  Do you see The Pros wearing watches?!  If you look at your wrist, people think you have better things to do and you don’t want to be there.  People will think you are just calling outs to go home.  Do not EVER let them think you are influenced by time.

So, now that I have said all that, do NOT forget to give the time play signal which is … pointing to your “watch.”

At least once a season, I have had somebody “see that for the first time” and ask … why are you signaling the game is almost over?  Oh, I thought you were telling your partner to hurry up because you needed to be somewhere.  Dinner plans?

 

I wear a Samsung Galaxy watch so I can track my steps. If they see me taking a peek and want to know why, I'll tell them how many steps I have for the day and how many more steps to hit my goal. 

[jimurrayalterego]

3 minutes ago, umpstu said:

 

I wear a Samsung Galaxy watch so I can track my steps. If they see me taking a peek and want to know why, I'll tell them how many steps I have for the day and how many more steps to hit my goal. 

Wristwatches were and should be anathema but the current wrist gadgets seem acceptable and I believe I've seen stuff on MLB umps wrists. I was a fill in on an Indy League game a while ago and my crew chief kept asking me the time while we were rubbing up baseballs so I forget to take it off my Casio as we headed out. I'm plate. After the game my partner told me during the game two players asked why I was wearing a watch. He told them I had a hot date that night.