LLWS Sign Stealing

[Velho]

1 hour ago, JonnyCat said:

It is in fact a requirement now. Stu Hartenstein, the new LL Director of Umpire Development (DUD), has mandated the hammer, as well as a number of other goofy mechanics that plainly suck.

So we should stop blaming Gerry?  

What's funny is watching various instructors doing games but not some of the prescribed mechanics.

There is a dirty little secret: I've had the discussion with many instructors and they all tell you make it your own. You don't have to do all that stuff for anything other than getting into regions and WS (and even then there is a hierarchy of WS and regions as some are "more equal than others").

 

[JonnyCat]

13 minutes ago, Velho said:

So we should stop blaming Gerry?  

What's funny is watching various instructors doing games but not some of the prescribed mechanics.

There is a dirty little secret: I've had the discussion with many instructors and they all tell you make it your own. You don't have to do all that stuff for anything other than getting into regions and WS (and even then there is a hierarchy of WS and regions as some are "more equal than others").

 

I should have clarified, most of the requirements are for the 12yo division. They give you more leeway in the INT, Jr's, and Sr's divisions. But if you want the big game assignments in LL, you better do the hammer, among other things.

I've heard the same, do whatever BS they want in the ID camps, and then see what regional or WS you get assigned.

[Velho]

23 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

I should have clarified, most of the requirements are for the 12yo division.

Oh yeah. 100%

And I some of those instructors not playing according to Hoyle were doing so in the Majors Regions. And they will be hearing it from me next time I see them, with video to prove it. 😁

[beerguy55]

Jesus Christ - when I played Little League one bench player every game was assigned to trying to ascertain the opposing third base coach's signs.

The player who was on/at second base would say first name for fastball, last name for curve...and if possible, point the direction of the target.

Our catcher's were taught to be deceptive with the target...and to give false signs...while flashing a "one", the other hand was on the left knee...or on the ground...and that was the sign.

As a coach, I'd let the other team figure out my bunt sign...and then add an "indicator"...lost count the number of teams I had F3/F5 playing halfway in to have a ball driven past them.

It's part of the game, and LL is the perfect time to figure it out.  They're old enough to add that element to the game.

For the last two years he played in Atlanta Greg Maddux called pitches based on how he caught the throw back from the catcher. 

[834k3r]

21 hours ago, Velho said:

Also, ejection only, not an out. There seems to be a sentiment across the interwebs that it was a game changer since the inning should have ended given 2 outs, and the next pitch HR wouldn't have happened.

I'm not current on my LL rules, but let me tug on that string a bit. If, in this case, R2 had been ejected, what happens? Is R2 replaced with another player (what if the team's using CBO?)? Is there suddenly only R1/R3 post-ejection?

Or does it all revert to OBR in that case?

[BLWizzRanger]

1 hour ago, 834k3r said:

I'm not current on my LL rules, but let me tug on that string a bit. If, in this case, R2 had been ejected, what happens? Is R2 replaced with another player (what if the team's using CBO?)? Is there suddenly only R1/R3 post-ejection?

Or does it all revert to OBR in that case?

That's interesting. I don't do LL so I don't know.  But, it seems like you would take the last batted out and place them at the first 'occupied' base that fits into the batting order and move the other BR accordingly. I really don't think it matters which base because the next time that player comes to bat, that position should be off of the bases. Yeah, lets go with that and not complicate if further.

[jimurrayalterego]

1 hour ago, 834k3r said:

I'm not current on my LL rules, but let me tug on that string a bit. If, in this case, R2 had been ejected, what happens? Is R2 replaced with another player (what if the team's using CBO?)? Is there suddenly only R1/R3 post-ejection?

Or does it all revert to OBR in that case?

 

35 minutes ago, BLWizzRanger said:

That's interesting. I don't do LL so I don't know.  But, it seems like you would take the last batted out and place them at the first 'occupied' base that fits into the batting order and move the other BR accordingly. I really don't think it matters which base because the next time that player comes to bat, that position should be off of the bases. Yeah, lets go with that and not complicate if further.

Last out or Courtesy Runner if applicable. Batting spot skipped over with no penalty.

[Velho]

1 hour ago, 834k3r said:

23 hours ago, Velho said:

Also, ejection only, not an out. There seems to be a sentiment across the interwebs that it was a game changer since the inning should have ended given 2 outs, and the next pitch HR wouldn't have happened.

I'm not current on my LL rules, but let me tug on that string a bit. If, in this case, R2 had been ejected, what happens? Is R2 replaced with another player (what if the team's using CBO?)? Is there suddenly only R1/R3 post-ejection?

If CBO, it would have to be the last out (same as courtesy runner). If not CBO*, eligible sub or opponent Manager chosen illegible (non-ejected) sub. LL explicitly covers the latter (3.03) maybe the former but I don't see it with quick search (it's the only possible solution though).

As @jimurrayalterego said, skip the spot in the batting order - though there is a provision for batting less than 9 to be an out. Regular season it can be a league optioned to not be an out (I'm unclear which is the default). Locally, during TOCs it was an out. Unclear what it would be in AS.

* Which, during tournament play, is only Seniors.

[Richvee]

16 hours ago, grayhawk said:

Off-topic, but I'm getting bored watching every PU do the same exact thing. Hands on knees and hammer strikes. I know it's been said that these are not requirements, but I'm having a hard time believing it. We're not softball umpires! I'd like to see more individuality. Sigh...

Not just PU..Every call is robotic. I don't think I've seen a BU sell a call yet. 

[Velho]

11 minutes ago, Richvee said:

Not just PU..Every call is robotic

I'm afraid I don't understand Dave, err Rich. Why is that a problem?

11 minutes ago, Richvee said:

I don't think I've seen a BU sell a call yet. 

They are rare. I have seen them but I've watched a lot of the SB & BB games mining for training material.

Not sure how much it's discussed at Regions to sell/no-sell but I have had the discussion of different levels of selling with folks that are doing Region/WS this year. Not sure if that's just those folks or it comes out of the Region/WS prep training. It's definitely trained in LL West Region schools.

[Coach Carl]

16 hours ago, jimurrayalterego said:

For a coach to be pedantic he would have to have rules knowledge. I only know of two, @Coach Carl and @beerguy55. They might some more pedantic coaches but most are not pedantic they are argumentative.

SWMBO might argue that pedantic and argumentative are synonyms.  She is neither, so doesn't see the value in drawing the distinction.

[ArchAngel72]

17 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

Having that "home run" called a foul ball may damage him also, so we are going to go ahead and call it fair. I know that pitch bounced, but he really wanted a strike out, so we'll give it to him.

We've had this argument here many times in many forms . . . when you start picking and choosing which rules you are going to enforce and when . . . 

Did the bat flip lawsuit get discussed on here? 

 

TMiB  Brother you are talking apples and T-bone steak.

Large difference on a fair or foul call or a ball or strike call or a bat flip.   This is being tossed from the game and on National TV.  It would be a massive issue for LL and ESPN.

 

Hence why I wish they would just get rid of the dang rule.

[Velho]

1 hour ago, Coach Carl said:

SWMBO might argue that pedantic and argumentative are synonyms.

"Well that's a fairly fastidious view to take!" (fyi - don't try this at home)

[Richvee]

1 hour ago, Velho said:

I'm afraid I don't understand Dave, err Rich. Why is that a problem?

Not a "problem".. Just softball-ish IMO. I like to see a little more individuality. Watching MD/DE right now...I think that was the first U2 I saw not give a robotic out hammer on a can of corn to F8...Refreshing 😎 

[The Man in Blue]

7 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

 

TMiB  Brother you are talking apples and T-bone steak.

Large difference on a fair or foul call or a ball or strike call or a bat flip.   This is being tossed from the game and on National TV.  It would be a massive issue for LL and ESPN.

 

Hence why I wish they would just get rid of the dang rule.

I'm totally with you on "get rid of the rule" if you don't want it called.

I wasn't meaning to compare apples and steaks, I was dumping bacon grease on the slippery slope.  As I said, we have had the discussion many times: if you are going to choose not to call rule X, what other rules are you willing to not call?

I specifically brought up the bat flip because of the recent lawsuit to stop a LL suspension.