At Face Value (Magnesium Masks & Other Things)

[834k3r]

13 minutes ago, DerekGDS said:

Working on it!

[Rock Bottom]

@DerekGDS Any new update on when the pads will be available?

[DerekGDS]

Realistically I think we're a few months away before we launch the first options and early Q4 2025 before we have a myriad of options.

You wouldn't want them as they are now but we're iterating and testing every couple of weeks to get them to the point where everyone who purchases them is hopefully very happy with the performance and package.

[Rock Bottom]

12 minutes ago, DerekGDS said:

Realistically I think we're a few months away before we launch the first options and early Q4 2025 before we have a myriad of options.

You wouldn't want them as they are now but we're iterating and testing every couple of weeks to get them to the point where everyone who purchases them is hopefully very happy with the performance and package.

Thanks! Looking forward to it. The AS magnesium fit well enough, but the bottom pad isn't as snug to the frame as I'd like plus visibility from that big pad has always been an issue for me, although still a great pad.

[Velho]

20 minutes ago, Rock Bottom said:

The AS magnesium fit well enough, ... plus visibility from that big pad has always been an issue for me, although still a great pad.

I'm same. I slapped the AG Mag pads on last night since AG is my backup and it's good but not great. I'll flip my Team Wendy pads off the WilsonTi make the Mirage my primary on next plate Thursday.

And then put the new pads on the Santa list.

[Go Navy Beat Army]

5 hours ago, DerekGDS said:

Working on it!

This is just like your wife giving you that "come to bed" look; only to tell you, "not tonight."

[MadMax]

On 4/21/2025 at 9:26 PM, Rock Bottom said:

Look at how curved the Mirage is! LOL (top is Mirage, middle is FM4000 steel, as is the bottom - strange the two are so different - guessing it has to do with the manufacturing process of the steel):

@DerekGDS really did yeoman's – and artisan's – work on this. Gerry Davis had already bequeathed the planform that became the Diamond iX3 (aka DFM-UMP) to Diamond back in the 90s(? early 2000s?), so he could have used that as his foundation, but otherwise, Davis didn't have its own "trademark" mask planform. Instead, Derek agrees with the sentiment – the Nike Titanium is just so classic, timeless, and iconic (hence the nickname). That would be what he would base the new design after. 

11 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

I’m referring to the front view... MAG is just sexy.

In terms of molded magnesium masks, the Rampage is actually the eldest. It's the product of All-Star putting out a RFD to a manufacturer in SE Asia. It was primarily math-&-physics -driven – what shapes and measurements would result in the strongest, stiffest, lightest frame possible? You'll notice that none of the bars are decorative, or superfluous. They all occur in single planes (with the exception of the two descenders which form the XCG), and their intersections are quite solid. This is reminiscent of the Resin-Composite +POS SUL1000 mask. 

With the process demonstrated and perfected, All-Star declined the Rampage planform, and instead proceeded to say (in so many words), "That's nice. Can we make that look like this (a FM4K... steel)?" Because the FM4K's geometry is so slanted and radical, they were unable to do a single injection mold to accommodate the entirety of the frame; as such, the frame mold is split into two sections – the upper, and lower, joined at the ear tabs, which have steel plates inserted into them at the edge of the mold, and that's where the welding occurs. 

The All-Star FM4K Magnesium is a fantastic mask... for a catcher. As I've said before, it's the tip-o'-the-spear in Protection Method 1 (of 3). The Force3 is the tops (and indeed, sole) of Method 3. I fervently say, the Mirage is the tops of Method 2, amongst a slew of other candidates. But, all those other candidates are made for catchers primarily, with umpires as a "well, I suppose it can work for them, too" inclusion; we wanted the Mirage to be made for umpires solely and exclusively. 

10 hours ago, concertman1971 said:

 

As for now, 10000% the AS LUC pads from a MAG are the best option (in my opinion). 

I needed to qualify that for you. I'm using WindPacts on my Mirage12 and my (remaining) Rampage. They're out-freakin'-standing. Air has virtually negligible mass, and provides just enough standoff volume. WindPact's patent is on the "instant" collapse-&-refill mechanism, and it's worth every penny... 

... which again summons my ire, disdain, and contempt for Wilson. EvoShield is their subsidiary, and do ya think they've tried incorporating WindPact – or hell, any of EvoShield's technology – in anything for umpires? Hmm? Why are ya still sitting on your thumbs and charging us premium prices, ya big yelloW slug??

10 hours ago, DerekGDS said:

Working on it!

These pads are going to blow your socks off, guys. They're a revolutionary way of purchasing, and using, and maintaining them that will bring tremendous value to you, as an essential, protective investment. 

[concertman1971]

14 minutes ago, MadMax said:

I'm using WindPacts on my Mirage12

OHOHHHHH....I am heading to the storage box to get out my WindPact pads and give them a test

 

[834k3r]

16 hours ago, Velho said:

I'm same. I slapped the AG Mag pads on last night since AG is my backup and it's good but not great. I'll flip my Team Wendy pads off the WilsonTi make the Mirage my primary on next plate Thursday.

And then put the new pads on the Santa list.

I run TWs on mine and love the combo FWIW.

[834k3r]

10 hours ago, concertman1971 said:

OHOHHHHH....I am heading to the storage box to get out my WindPact pads and give them a test

 

[834k3r]

So I worked a loser-out district tournament game last night. Broke out my Carolina Blue AS Mag mask for the first time this year--the GD Mirage has been my gamer for the past few weeks. Having worn the Mirage for a length of time and going back to the AS Mag, it really was drastic how...what's the word? cramped? narrow?...the AS Mag felt. Sight lines were not nearly as clear as the Mirage--especially low (I wear TW pads on my Mirage).

All this to say--great work by all involved with the project (@MadMax, @DerekGDS, @concertman1971, and others I'm not aware of).

I might very well sell my AS Mag and get another GD Mirage...

[orangebird]

@MadMax what are these 3 methods you speak of?

[Velho]

2 hours ago, 834k3r said:

Having worn the Mirage for a length of time and going back to the AS Mag, it really was drastic how...what's the word? cramped? narrow?...the AS Mag felt. Sight lines were not nearly as clear as the Mirage--especially low (I wear TW pads on my Mirage).

I'm 2 weeks in on the Mirage and feeling the same. I use TW also and love the visibility (though I prefer the feel of the AS Mag pads).

The XCG has been great as well. I never minded the dangle much but not having one is nice. It also helps me with my preferred mechanic of dropping straight down vs leaning forward. If I drop correctly, I can feel the XCG just kiss my CP.

I've taken a few shots and it's been fine.

My only, ridiculously mild difference is the deeper depth (Z measurement) isn't perfect under my arm like my Wilson Ti. That's offset not being limited to 4 stitch though.

[MadMax]

58 minutes ago, orangebird said:

@MadMax what are these 3 methods you speak of?

Page 1, initial post of this Topic:

On 2/19/2025 at 12:28 AM, MadMax said:

As I've shared before, in the realm of umpire gear, the traditional mask has reached an evolutionary fork-in-the-road, or intersection. There are three options: 

1. Geometric protection; the 3-dimensional shape of the mask is the primary factor as to its successful deflection, redirection, or mitigation of the impacting energy. This is an offshoot of Option 2, the Structural nature of the protection, because these geometries can only be achieved by advanced welding or 3D-rendered and molded shapes. 
2. Structural (incl. Metallurgical) protection; the physical properties of the materials used – the metals** of the frame combined with the pads – are integral to the successful absorption and mitigation of the impacting energy. This option has plateaued several times in the last century, each time experiencing a gradual albeit agonizingly slow  improvement with advances made in the metals of the frame, the welding properties of those metals (and alloys), and the improvements of the pads and materials that comprise them. 
3. Mechanical protection; assembled mechanical (ie. moving) systems are integrated into the mask to actively reduce, retard, rebound and absorb the impacting energy. This, too, is an offshoot of Option 2, since the only way to make these systems lightweight enough to warrant inclusion on the mask is their welds have to be incredibly strong relative to the alloys used in constructing them. 

 

 

[Rock Bottom]

Has anyone taken a shot with these yet? If so, what did you think? 

[MadMax]

1 hour ago, Rock Bottom said:

Has anyone taken a shot with these yet? If so, what did you think? 

I got blasted last week. Inde-pro arm, exhibition game, 94 mph (that’s what the big board said). Catcher expected away, this came up and in, and he got nothing on it. 
PWING!! 
Magnesium makes a sound that is definitely metallic, but doesn’t sound like steel or aluminum. The WindPact pads performed perfectly, and the Mirage frame was unaffected. There was a “shadow” of fine white where the ball impacted – center freakin’ mass – but it wiped right off with my fingers! 

I am eagerly awaiting the new Davis pads we’re debuting, and have no doubts that @DerekGDS will make them top-notch. 

[Rock Bottom]

That's great to hear @MadMax! Thanks! 

[LC Ump]

I've been wearing the Mirage exclusively since it arrived from GDS about 3 weeks ago - high school, college, men's senior baseball, Little League.

Paired with TW pads it has been an absolute pleasure to have on. As others may have already said it's light as a feather, has great sight lines, eliminates the need for a dangling TG...and the frame stands up like a champ to anything that whacks into it.

Will definitely be investing the GDS pads to go with it when they become available. 

[DerekGDS]

A sneak peek since I feel like we're getting down the home stretch here. The pads are a two part system.

• Covers/socks (outer)
• Cores/padding (inner)

Initially, the cover will only be offered in black/black. The front is a fabric covered molded EVA foam and towards the face is a synthetic suede. Eventually, these will be offered in a multitude of color options and fabrics choices. The concept being simply remove the core, and swap it into a different cover based on your preference/style that day. Have a bunch of covers and a couple of cores depending on how much you like to switch it up. The front strap has loop so you can stick on your favorite Wilson yellow 'W' patch.

There are plans right now for 3 cores. Only one will be released initially which will be vaguely labeled as #2 for now. All of this is still subject to change a bit.

• #1 - This core will most closely resemble the Wilson Memory Foam pads but are not made purely of a memory foam. It has a 1mm HDPE plate and then is comprised of a 3 layer laminate including two types of EVA foam and memory foam towards the face. 
• #2 - This core is a compromise on performance and weight using multiple materials include D3O, our cross-linked foam and EVA. Like #1 it also includes 1mm HDPE plates and is die cut to reduce weight.
• #3 - This core is the most dense and like #2 will be die cut to reduce weight as much as possible. It again is a laminate that includes D3O, different density memory foams. For TW folks who like placing bricks on their face, this might be the go to.

[Rock Bottom]

Great info @DerekGDS! Which one will be the most protective?

[BLWizzRanger]

7 hours ago, DerekGDS said:

The front strap has loop so you can stick on your favorite Wilson yellow 'W' patch.

I think we can all guess who had this great idea! 

[AtlUmp]

Based on the first picture it looks like the cover has raised padding that fits into the geometry of the bars that I'm guessing help to keep the pad in place. Will this cause any issues with other masks that don't have the same bar geometry, such as the Mizunos?

[Velho]

1 hour ago, AtlUmp said:

Based on the first picture it looks like the cover has raised padding that fits into the geometry of the bars that I'm guessing help to keep the pad in place.so that it looks FREAKING COOL!

FIFY 🤣

[AtlUmp]

6 minutes ago, Velho said:

FIFY 🤣

The cover with the gray padding especially looks dope as hell. Straight
🔥

[DerekGDS]

8 hours ago, Rock Bottom said:

Which one will be the most protective?

This is a hard one... i want to emphasis that nothing can guarantee 100% protection from injury or concussion. There are far too many factors including biological, neurologic, genetics, etc. 

On paper, of the three above, #3 offers the most protection but it may not be the best for each individual. They will all be protective, much more so then all of the cheap pads on the market with there cushion foams but it's really going to come down to preferences, feel and weight for a lot of folks.

2 hours ago, BLWizzRanger said:

I think we can all guess who had this great idea! 

It just makes it easy to either have no logo, the Davis logo or swap something else you want on there.

2 hours ago, AtlUmp said:

Will this cause any issues with other masks that don't have the same bar geometry

Yes, it will but this specific design will should fit a lot of different frames. Dyna-Lite, Nike Ti, Adidas, Davis Trace, +POS ZRO-G, etc. We're working on verifying the fitment for various frames. 

The same concept will be brought to a universal design that should fit most traditional wire frame designs it's just a few months down the road.