Little league rule starting in 2025

[BigVic69]

As this grows in popularity the ripple effect will cause damage to smaller little leagues to loose attendance.

 

Do you fellas have any comments on issues that could/would occur?

 

Starting with the 2025 season, children at the youngest level of the Little League Baseball and Softball program (League Age 4-7) throughout the United States will have the ability to register for any Little League program they choose, without respect to any geography- or school-related eligibility requirements.

 

 

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[Velho]

Thanks @BigVic69 I wasn't aware of this change.

I looked at the LL website and there isn't much clarifying language on when a change of leagues would be permitted (i.e. moving out of state). I submitted a question there. We'll see what comes back.

Reading the website the language "In an effort to assist these families at these youngest divisions to choose the best league for their situation" appears repeatedly. That makes me think part of this is a way to force leagues to be more competitive. Whether that be proper culture or financials to attract from Pony, travel, other activities, etc. 

For example, in my area (San Jose) the primary alternative is travel (Pony is here but small numbers) but I have friends in SoCal who share a complex with Pony so are forced to be fee conscious (theirs is $240 while my local is $375).

Seems it will also allow leagues to recruit and stack All Stars teams - like Chicago, Hawaii, and Taiwan have been proven/suspected of doing in the past. So the ESPN product is going to be that much better. I'm a cynical ass so that makes me go "hmmmm".

[Lou B]

What a 180, I remember when boundaries were sacred.  Times change, sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse.

[SeeingEyeDog]

11 hours ago, Lou B said:

What a 180, I remember when boundaries were sacred.  Times change, sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse.

While LL boundaries have indeed always been sacred, the world is a very different place now...

I grew up in the near suburbs of a major American city. Like most cities, our suburbs expanded from the closest suburbs to downtown...and then outwards from there. In the mid 1950s when most of the close suburb LLs were being formed, the population in those near suburbs was very dense and still is today so, the size of the LL boundaries were very small. As you moved further and further away from downtown, populations got less dense and because that, the boundaries for those further out suburbs were drawn much larger so that the total number of people living in each of the leagues' boundaries was about the same. Fast forward several decades...and there has been little new development in those near suburbs, the land is effectively used up for residential development however, the areas further out have seen a great deal of additional homes and residences built. The densities are still not exactly the same but, those further out suburbs have dominated district LL all-star play because they have 5 times the population to draw from. We have had the same two leagues representing our district for at least the past 40 years.

I fought for many years when I was on the board to have the league boundaries re-drawn...or at least start the discussion. My God...you have never seen more disgusting behavior in your life...you would have thought I was committing high crimes and misdemeanors! How can anyone look at dominance from two leagues and think that's good for the game and ultimately the kids? Equality is a dream...understood but, I think the drop in interest in our local LL has a great deal to do with the kids all knowing they have no chance of ever getting out of district play. The concept of "I enjoy playing ball with the kids from my neighborhood..." is a myth for this generation.

~Dawg  

[Velho]

2 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

The concept of "I enjoy playing ball with the kids from my neighborhood..." is a myth for this generation.

Yeah and I find that so sad. My son's HS team Sr. year was made up entirely of kids that played in the same LL league (that was only 2 years ago). It was awesome and it's shame it can't be like that more often.

[ArchAngel72]

Guys its only ages 4-7

 

After that it is still the normal rules as far as how the Districts have marked them up regarding schools or whatever.

I assume its to keep families together while starting to play baseball.

Meh means nothing to anyone really its not going to sway some district title or state championship or Regional etc etc.

 

[Velho]

1 hour ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Guys its only ages 4-7

That's not how I read it but would happy to be wrong.

"“Starting with the 2025 season, children at the youngest level of the Little League® Baseball and Softball program (League Age 4-7) throughout the United States will have the ability to register for any Little League program they choose, without respect to any geography- or school-related eligibility requirements. Those players who register under this option will also be fully eligible to participate in all aspects of league play, including International Tournament play, for the duration of their Little League careers provided they have continuous and unbroken participation from the time they are League Age seven within the specific league where initially registered and provided all other participation eligibility requirements have been met.”

I read that as you can stay in the league you register with at age 7 with full rights as if you lived in that league's boundaries.

@ArchAngel72 Are you saying at age 8 you have to go back to your school/home boundary league?

 

[Velho]

1 hour ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Meh means nothing to anyone really its not going to sway some district title or state championship or Regional etc etc.

Except where history shows it will 😉 https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/national-international/little-league-scandals-past/1987262/

[ArchAngel72]

As part of this strategic change, which is detailed in Little League’s Regulation II as found in the Little League Rulebook App, players League Age 8-16 as of the 2025 season (born on or before September 1, 2017, for Baseball or January 1, 2017, for Softball) will continue to utilize the current boundary requirement based on residency or school enrollment.

Opportunities and waivers will continue to be available as an option for players should they be interested in switching leagues that are outside of these requirements, based on approval and potential stipulations from the Little League International Charter Committee.

In an effort to assist these families at these youngest divisions to choose the best league for their situation, as well as to further support the administrative needs of our local league volunteers, Little League International will also be launching a Central Registration Platform, which will be mandatory for leagues to use starting with the 2025 season, at PlayLittleLeague.org.

[ArchAngel72]

1 hour ago, Velho said:

That's not how I read it but would happy to be wrong.

"“Starting with the 2025 season, children at the youngest level of the Little League® Baseball and Softball program (League Age 4-7) throughout the United States will have the ability to register for any Little League program they choose, without respect to any geography- or school-related eligibility requirements. Those players who register under this option will also be fully eligible to participate in all aspects of league play, including International Tournament play, for the duration of their Little League careers provided they have continuous and unbroken participation from the time they are League Age seven within the specific league where initially registered and provided all other participation eligibility requirements have been met.”

I read that as you can stay in the league you register with at age 7 with full rights as if you lived in that league's boundaries.

@ArchAngel72 Are you saying at age 8 you have to go back to your school/home boundary league?

 

the second part I posted makes me think they once they hit 8 need to go back to their proper area.

 

Unless I am mis understanding that.

 

[ArchAngel72]

1 hour ago, Velho said:

Except where history shows it will 😉 https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/national-international/little-league-scandals-past/1987262/

Well this is where a City cheated and got caught after..

LL's history  is rampant with cheaters like that.

[ArchAngel72]

Do they have district and state and regional and beyond tournaments for ages 4-7??

 

[Velho]

35 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

As part of this strategic change, which is detailed in Little League’s Regulation II as found in the Little League Rulebook App, players League Age 8-16 as of the 2025 season (born on or before September 1, 2017, for Baseball or January 1, 2017, for Softball) will continue to utilize the current boundary requirement based on residency or school enrollment.

Opportunities and waivers will continue to be available as an option for players should they be interested in switching leagues that are outside of these requirements, based on approval and potential stipulations from the Little League International Charter Committee.

In an effort to assist these families at these youngest divisions to choose the best league for their situation, as well as to further support the administrative needs of our local league volunteers, Little League International will also be launching a Central Registration Platform, which will be mandatory for leagues to use starting with the 2025 season, at PlayLittleLeague.org.

They updated the website from when this thread started yesterday. Thanks for posting it.

Glad to see some sanity remains.

[Coach Carl]

50 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

the second part I posted makes me think they once they hit 8 need to go back to their proper area.

 

Unless I am mis understanding that.

 

I think you are misreading it.  

Starting in 2025, if you are league age 4-7, you may choose to participate in any league that you wish and may continue to play in it for as long as you like as long as it is continuous participation.  Once that participation is broken, you must follow the normal residency/school boundry requirements. 

If you are league age 8+ (in 2025) then you do not have the option of playing anywhere you like but must play according to the current residency/school boundry requirements.

I'm a Little League Board member and this is how it was explained by our DA in our January board meeting.  Perhaps I misheard her but I don't think so.  

 

[SeeingEyeDog]

4 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Guys its only ages 4-7...

 

Yes, I'm aware it's not 10+ who participate in the district, state, regional and national championships. I was just extending the conversation to that of a conversation about the inequities of LL boundary system...

~Dawg

[Velho]

38 minutes ago, Coach Carl said:

I'm a Little League Board member and this is how it was explained by our DA in our January board meeting.  Perhaps I misheard her but I don't think so.  

Looking at it much deeper, I think you are right. It appears to be as I and @BigVic69 read it. Age 7 and under you'll be able to pick your league and then stay there. A screenshot of the written rule is attached. Hearing that was what your admins presented would resolve any ambiguity.

Either way, I'm moving on. My son is 20 and I'm not on a board. It is outside my control and will sort itself out.

For anyones reference website link and the pdf:

https://www.littleleague.org/playing-rules/2025-regulation-2-update/?_gl=1*yzzco5*_up*MQ..*_ga*Nzk5NDE3MzI4LjE3MDUxNjI3OTM.*_ga_LE6RD2WENZ*MTcwNTE2Mjc5Mi4xLjAuMTcwNTE2Mjc5Mi4wLjAuMA..

2025-regulation-ii-summary.pdf

[ArchAngel72]

1 hour ago, Coach Carl said:

I think you are misreading it.  

Starting in 2025, if you are league age 4-7, you may choose to participate in any league that you wish and may continue to play in it for as long as you like as long as it is continuous participation.  Once that participation is broken, you must follow the normal residency/school boundry requirements. 

If you are league age 8+ (in 2025) then you do not have the option of playing anywhere you like but must play according to the current residency/school boundry requirements.

I'm a Little League Board member and this is how it was explained by our DA in our January board meeting.  Perhaps I misheard her but I don't think so.  

 

 

Thank you for sorting that out the language on it is awful how its worded.

 

[Coach Carl]

Regarding the original question on the effect it might have:  I would imagine in areas where a league has a regional reputation for excellence, that some parents would put their kids into that league on the hope that he gets to be a part of a generally better experience.    

In my experience as a league administrator and coach, I can see some parents striving for their kid to have better all-star and tournament experiences.  But, there isn't much use in trying to project the long term outlook of the ability of a kid at age 7 or less.  

What I could see being a problem is some weak leagues losing people.  As parents sign their 4 or 5 yr old up for T-ball, without a good experience, they may look around.  My league already deals with Cal Ripken in this way.  There is a local Cal Ripken league that any child can sign up for as well.  So, if our program isn't up to snuff then they can try the Cal Ripken league instead.  Now, there are any number of Little Leagues available as well.       

[JonnyCat]

It also covers siblings, as well. See regulation II(d).

It could lead to stacking leagues with better players. Parents of a stud 11 or 12 year old, with a younger sibling age 4-7, can transfer the older sibling along with the younger one.

LL has had boundary issues for many years, especially on the softball side. In my area, we used to have a big softball program in our section. Now there is none. ASA has taken over softball almost everywhere in SoCal.

With so many choices in youth sports, the boundary model just does not work anymore for LL, especially when trying to compete against travel-ball. That's why LL implemented that awful Intermediate division. LL has been losing players steadily for many years now. It's only a matter of time when boundaries are eliminated all-together. Just look at the recent rule changes like no mandatory play in All Stars, and coaches warming up pitchers. I never thought I'd ever see LL budge on those 2 rules. LL is trying to stick with their age old traditions, but it just won't work in today society, and they are finally starting to realize that. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

[Aging_Arbiter]

Travel T-Ball?

[Vegas_Ump]

When I started umpiring, it was in Chantilly, VA.  This was a pretty young, growing city with lots of youngsters.  The legacy umpires got together and helped to build a Little League program.  We had all levels of baseball and softball (including what they called Big Leagues).  With 55 volunteer umpires, we covered about 75 games a week!  We had 2 leagues:  Chantilly American League and Chantilly National League.  (Fairfax City had three leagues!)  And the State Association actually added a 16th District!  Little League was very vibrant.

As time went by, the economy and many other factors stopped the mobility of families.  Thus, all the kids grew up, and it was less likely that more younger kids would be there who wanted to play baseball or softball and fill in the teams.  There are fewer teams now.  The leagues contracted.  Kids left baseball for lacrosse!  So today, you have way fewer kids to start with.

Yeah, you might see All-Star Teams from leagues whose players are from way beyond the old league boundaries.  People WILL game the system.  But Little League will fritter away if they don't have a reasonable number of teams in leagues that are defined with less strict boundaries than before.  

As a side note, someone commented that ESPN might have something to do with this new rule language.  I would not be surprised!  They need Tony the Tiger to buy ads for their Regional and International tournaments.  Without populated leagues, there will be no Little League programs at District and above.  As they said in The Right Stuff, "No Bucks!  No Buck Rogers!"

Mike

Las Vegas