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Ejected for prop


Umpire in Chief
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Trying my hardest to take my fanboy hat off. ECU lost today and this had zero effect on the game.

And I understand the no prop rule add to that ECU was one of the worst offenders. From cowboy hats, our safety cone "birdhouse", wrestling belts, broom stick ponys, ECU did them all and I'm glad they're gone. 

But today in the conference tournament one of our pitchers on the bench was EJd for bringing a prop on the field. This "prop" was a peanut butter and jelly sandwich he was eating at the time. In the pic below you see him on the stairs eating it before the homer was hit. Definitely not a prop. And this was the bottom of the first so no previous issues.

I just think judgement and discretion need to come into the picture. But now we've lost a starting pitcher...

Picture taken from a ECU fan page.FB_IMG_1684893948126.jpg

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46 minutes ago, Umpire in Chief said:

Here's the homer where the player was EJd....

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Csl_dm6sNJX/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

That clip does not show the sandwich handoff to the HR hitter. Seems innocuous unless there was prior intel and that was a thing. The players can start "guerilla type stuff".  They are not dummys and their coaches will not put a stop to it. What this was we don't know. Foward the ejection report when you get it but overkill is better than the bullSH*# scrums we have seen when it is not killed.

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He brought it out and handed it to the batter who took a bite of it... in the celebration. That is a celebratory prop. We've been hammered on this all year. The NCAA sent out a memo week 3 or 4 as a blanket warning so teams didn't get a "free one". They know that they can't bring ANYTHING out of the dugout and use it in the celebration. The players have to be smarter than what they showed. They know that they can't do that. They know that the umpire's supervisors are in attendance and watching everything during the tournament. 

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Feeling less butthurt today. 

Last night I saw another angle where you see the player put the sandwich in his mouth easier, then I watched the IG video again and saw that. Legit ejection within the rules, but I still think this was grabbing the dirty end of the stick.

But the interwebs are having a field day with it.

https://youtube.com/shorts/-fA8Syp2Kuo

 

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I think the lesson is to trust our brothers -- especially working this level -- over out-of-context clips from people who don't know baseball rules and seem to all have a vendetta against umpires on social media. 

Will mistakes be made? Sure. But these days, it's literally true: A lie (video) can travel the world before the truth (the ejection report) can catch its breath. 

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5 hours ago, Umpire in Chief said:

Feeling less butthurt today. 

Last night I saw another angle where you see the player put the sandwich in his mouth easier, then I watched the IG video again and saw that. Legit ejection within the rules, but I still think this was grabbing the dirty end of the stick.

But the interwebs are having a field day with it.

https://youtube.com/shorts/-fA8Syp2Kuo

 

Warren,

I'm going to disagree with you about the dirty end of the stick... especially with how hard we have been hammered about this. Seemingly on a weekly basis from the NCAA, ever since the meetings about enforcement of this rule. 

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It seems to me if NCAA umpires have been hammered on this, then the umpires are merely "doing as they are told" and following orders. It sounds like had this NOT been called, the crew would have been reprimanded. For those that want to find fault with this ruling, they would want to shift their attention to those writing/editing the NCAA rule book and not the umpires...

~Dawg

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11 hours ago, TheRockawayKid said:

I think the lesson is to trust our brothers -- especially working this level -- over out-of-context clips from people who don't know baseball rules and seem to all have a vendetta against umpires on social media. 

Will mistakes be made? Sure. But these days, it's literally true: A lie (video) can travel the world before the truth (the ejection report) can catch its breath. 

Even the alleged "FU" call.

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as has been mentioned. maybe this has been missed during regular season inadvertently, but as we all know, there is film out there everywhere that can go back to the Conference Office or to the NCAA itself for anything. and, just like in HS, you get to those playoffs, and you have a very high chance of a state representatives at those games, and they are definitely looking for any and all violations of the POE for the year or anything to do with sportsmanship and anything else illegal. and to not address poor sportsmanship or the POE bulletins, would probably go into the back of their minds and put one in the cross hairs for future post season assignments. just IMHO, but what do i know - anyone for a call to Randy Bruns????

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On 5/24/2023 at 3:00 PM, SeeingEyeDog said:

For those that want to find fault with this ruling, they would want to shift their attention to those writing/editing the NCAA rule book

“Fastest way to have a rule changed in college baseball? Enforce it as written.” – a long-time NCAA D1 umpire

There are 3 things overpopulating my email inbox – 1) Groupon offers (just want the oil changes!), 2) LinkedIn post alerts (don’t care), 3) NCAA Rules & Interpretation memos. 

The NCAA is compelled to get out in front of this, because unlike the pros, they can’t fine transgressors. And transgressors will continue to push to perform their shenanigans outside the dugout, because (I believe) that any broadcast cameras are not allowed in the actual dugouts. And then you have Pandora’s Garbage Disposal that is the Name-Image-Likeness (NIL) crap… ugh, I’m tiring myself just thinking about it. 

@JSam21 and @dumbdumb have it right… the last thing you want to see yourself in, as an umpire, is a memo / training clip wherein the proctor says, “So this umpire crew had this happen… “. 

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3 hours ago, MadMax said:

 

@JSam21 and @dumbdumb have it right… the last thing you want to see yourself in, as an umpire, is a memo / training clip wherein the proctor says, “So this umpire crew had this happen… “. 

Every game I work I hope nothing happens where my game ends up in Billy Haze inbox!

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Just now, concertman1971 said:

Every game I work I hope nothing happens where my game ends up in […] inbox!

Some of us in AZ get a double-whammy, because of… situation. 

Example: I got asked in a post-game eval “how you (me) could possibly know how to administer the 20-second clock properly when you (me) haven’t attended our (particular conference’s) rules meeting?!” 
My reply?: “E, I work other conferences, had to pass the NCAA test, and my league has used the pitch clock since 2021, when it was first introduced. I have to know it.” 

… and that means, yes, reading every g*dd@mn email from the NCAA / NAIA / NJCAA that piles into my inbox!! 🤨

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Who is the NCAA? Do you discipline a coach for allowing a prop and expressing displeasure with the rule/interp. (interp generated by reaction/overreaction in the past to props or actions that caused brawls that did not look good for NCAA). NCAA put it on the umpire supervisory persons and/ or the rules committee to fix this problem and they put it on the rank and file to enforce the interp. Meanwhile some coaches have been of no help and this coach defends his players actions. Rank and file umpires should let the monkeys do their thing, have whatever reaction will happen, let coaches deal with it and NCAA, above Haze's level deal with it. Maybe discipline an NCAA coach that lets the bad stuff happen or thinks NCAA should let "fun" happen?

Waiting to see what NCAA baseball says about this? Most likely nothing since it's all about the money. Haze and Bruns need to ask whoever they work for if they can tell their umps to call the game between the lines if NCAA won't call it outside the lines.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/college-baseball-pitcher-ejected-for-hot-dog-home-run-celebration/ar-AA1bH7C4?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=4baff6aac4b6481abced88400d5c089b&ei=8

I suggest NCAA put a suit, to eagle eye  in the pressbox or postgame video to decide what's appropriate and discipline the coach involved who failed to EDJUCATE his players about following the rules and sportsmanship.

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Here is what kills me about this props rule and how much grief people (fans, coaches, announcers) give it.

YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT IN THE DUGOUT! (Well, not whatever but you get my point)

You can have a headdress, helmet, worlds biggest PBJ sandwich, shopping cart to give a ride, whatever, as long as it stays in the dugout.  Why is this so hard?

They can have their fun in the dugout , no one is saying they can’t celebrate, just do it in the dugout.  Not that hard of a rule to follow 

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When it's in your dugout, it's for and about your team and your teammate.

When it's out of your dugout it may still be meant for them, but it's also now about the other team, other players, and the fans, many of them not your own.

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13 hours ago, LC Ump said:

When it's out of your dugout it may still be meant for them, but it's also now about the other team, other players, and the fans, many of them not your own.

Know what a Haka (dance) is? 

Why can’t a Haka be performed in the clubhouse or locker room? 🤔

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On 5/25/2023 at 7:07 AM, dumbdumb said:

as has been mentioned. maybe this has been missed during regular season inadvertently, but as we all know, there is film out there everywhere that can go back to the Conference Office or to the NCAA itself for anything. and, just like in HS, you get to those playoffs, and you have a very high chance of a state representatives at those games, and they are definitely looking for any and all violations of the POE for the year or anything to do with sportsmanship and anything else illegal. and to not address poor sportsmanship or the POE bulletins, would probably go into the back of their minds and put one in the cross hairs for future post season assignments. just IMHO, but what do i know - anyone for a call to Randy Bruns????

I don't mean to make a grand point here, but I just want to point out one thing: 

A few years ago, there's a regional (or maybe even CWS? I don't remember exactly) and one hitter from a big-name team (once again, can't tell you which team) hits a huge home run. An absolute moon shot. 

He comes back into the dugout, and the cameras are on him as he takes his tin from his bag and starts to pack a chew. Now, I'm not expecting anyone to be looking in the dugout here, but I was always confused as to why he didn't serve a suspension after the game. Did the NCAA officials watching miss it, or were they looking the other way? I don't know, honestly. Once again, no larger point here.

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15 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

Cultural appropriation?  :shrug:

More to the point, the Kiwis are asked / expected to perform their Haka… everyone films it to great fanfare and reverence. Game / match start times are delayed so as to allow the Kiwis to perform the Haka… 

But where’s that Haka performed? Out on the “field of battle”. Where you can see the faces of your enemy, and strike mortal fear in them. Why can’t they just perform it in their locker room, if it’s so culturally important? 

🤔 

I just explained the tribalism in collegiate athletics. 

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