Line Drive Hits Pitcher, Then Goes Into Stand

[Guest Tom]

If a line drive hits a pitcher, and bounces off the pitcher into the stands, what would that be considered?

[Senor Azul]

When the batted ball hit the pitcher that made it a fair ball by definition. When the batted ball left the playing field on the impetus provided by the batter hitting the ball he is awarded two bases [rule 5.06(b)(4)(F)] and the batter is credited with a double by rule 9.06e.

A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that is on or over fair territory when bounding to the outfield past first or third base, or that touches first, second or third base, or that first falls on fair territory on or beyond first base or third base, or that, while on or over fair territory touches the person of an umpire or player, or that, while over fair territory, passes out of the playing field in flight...

5.06(b)(4)(F) Two bases, if a fair ball bounces or is deflected into the stands outside the first or third base foul lines; or if it goes through or under a field fence, or through or under a scoreboard, or through or under shrubbery or vines on the fence; or if it sticks in such fence, scoreboard, shrubbery or vines;

[SH0102]

38 minutes ago, Guest Tom said:

If a line drive hits a pitcher, and bounces off the pitcher into the stands, what would that be considered?

Ground rule double 

[noumpere]

All of the above assuming that the ball went over the fence in foul territory.  Possible but very unlikely that it deflects off the pitcher and then continues over the outfield fence for a home run.  I think I saw it in a cartoon once. ;)

No different from an fly ball near the foul pole.  Te outfielder reaches for the ball and touches it and the ball defects over the fence in (a) fair territory -- home run, or (b) foul territory -- two base award.

[Velho]

1 hour ago, noumpere said:

No different from an fly ball near the foul pole.  Te outfielder reaches for the ball and touches it and the ball defects over the fence in (a) fair territory -- home run, or (b) foul territory -- two base award.

I feel obligated to post this. It also happened the other day with the Mariners two OFs colliding to knock an all but caught ball out of glove and over the fence

[The Man in Blue]

8 hours ago, Guest Tom said:

If a line drive hits a pitcher, and bounces off the pitcher into the stands, what would that be considered?

Unfortunate.

[Rich Ives]

10 hours ago, SH0102 said:

Ground rule double 

Book rule double.

[beerguy55]

9 hours ago, noumpere said:

All of the above assuming that the ball went over the fence in foul territory.  Possible but very unlikely that it deflects off the pitcher and then continues over the outfield fence for a home run.  I think I saw it in a cartoon once.

No different from an fly ball near the foul pole.  Te outfielder reaches for the ball and touches it and the ball defects over the fence in (a) fair territory -- home run, or (b) foul territory -- two base award.

Does this little proviso in 5.05(a)(9) make it a double, even if it goes over the HR fence in fair territory?

 

(9)  Any fair fly ball is deflected by the fielder into the stands, or over the fence into foul territory, in which case the batter shall be entitled to advance to second base; but if deflected into the stands or over the fence in fair territory, the batter shall be entitled to a home run. However, should such a fair fly be deflected at a point less than 250 feet from home plate, the batter shall be entitled to two bases only.

[Senor Azul]

Since Mr. Rich Ives decided to bring it up here’s the explanation taken from The Dickson Baseball Dictionary (third edition)—

ground-rule double  A two-base hit awarded by the umpire that results from hitting into a special situation outlined in the ground rules. USAGE NOTE. The term is commonly used when a batted ball bounces in fair territory and goes over the fence or into the stands; however, this is a general baseball rule [Official Baseball Rules, rules 5.06(b)(4A) through 5.06(b)(4G)] and the proper term is rule-book double. The term “ground rule double” dates back to when many parks had roped areas in the outfield, and individual parks had different ground rules for handling them. The term’s use has not kept pace with the changing rules, although the meticulous announcer Jon Miller always makes a point of calling this hit an automatic double, a far more accurate term. Previous to 1930 in the American League and 1931 in the National League, a ball that bounced over the fence was considered a home run…

And from Wikipedia--A ground rule double is a baseball rule that awards two bases from the time of pitch to all baserunners including the batter-runner, as a result of the ball leaving play after being hit fairly and leaving the field under a condition of the ground rules in effect at the field where the game is being played. An automatic double is the term used to refer to a fairly hit ball leaving the field in circumstances that do not merit a home run, such as when the ball's first bounce was within the field. The automatic double (or rule-book double) is quite often mistakenly called a ground rule double.

[beerguy55]

14 minutes ago, Senor Azul said:

Previous to 1930 in the American League and 1931 in the National League, a ball that bounced over the fence was considered a home run…

And amazingly, apparently zero of Babe Ruth's home runs were of this variety.

He did lose one walk off home run before that rule was changed in 1920.

 

Of course, he also had 11 inside the park home runs in some of those monstrously huge ball parks....which also might explain a lack of "automatic doubles/home runs"...the ball just wasn't leaving some of those parks.

[CanuckJoeWest]

On 8/18/2022 at 5:57 PM, beerguy55 said:

Does this little proviso in 5.05(a)(9) make it a double, even if it goes over the HR fence in fair territory?

 

(9)  Any fair fly ball is deflected by the fielder into the stands, or over the fence into foul territory, in which case the batter shall be entitled to advance to second base; but if deflected into the stands or over the fence in fair territory, the batter shall be entitled to a home run. However, should such a fair fly be deflected at a point less than 250 feet from home plate, the batter shall be entitled to two bases only.

That's an excellent question. Many games I have are 13U and down which play on 225-250-225 fields, meaning any deflected ball would be less than 250 from the plate. Although I'll likely never see this.

[Senor Azul]

The rule cited in your question is from the OBR written for professional baseball. All youth leagues have their own version of the rule adjusted for their particular age groups. For example, here’s the 2022 Little League rule--

From the 2022 LL RIM rule

6.09 - The batter becomes a runner when-

(h) any fair fly ball is deflected by the fielder into the stands, or over the fence into foul territory, in which case the batter shall be entitled to advance to second base; but if deflected into the stands or over the fence in fair territory, the batter shall be entitled to a home run. However, should such a fair fly be deflected at a point less than 165 feet [Intermediate (50-70) Division (BASEBALL): 200 feet and Junior/Senior League (BASEBALL): 250 feet) from home plate, the batter shall be entitled to two bases only.

And here’s the reason the pro rule book includes a minimum-distance-to-the-fence rule. In 1884 a guy named Ned Williamson of the Chicago White Stockings set the professional single season record for home runs with 27 (a record that was not broken until 1919 by somebody named Ruth who hit 29 HRs). Williamson was a left-handed batter and it has been stated that the right-field fence at Lake Front Park, Chicago's home field, was less than 200 feet from home plate. This was the shortest fence in the league.

In 1889 the National League and the American Association of Base Ball Clubs put into their written rules a rule that specified that any fair ball hit out of the field of play less than 210 feet from home base was only a double. The distance was changed to 235 feet for the 1892 season.

[Senor Azul]

And here’s why we now have the 250-foot minimum. From the MLB website:

No Major League ballparks are exactly alike, but certain aspects of the field of play must be uniform across baseball…

The rulebook states that parks constructed by professional teams after June 1, 1958, must have a minimum distance of 325 feet between home plate and the nearest fence, stand or other obstruction on the right- and left-field foul lines, and 400 feet between home plate and the nearest fence, stand or other obstruction in center field. However, some clubs have been permitted to construct parks after that date with dimensions shorter than those specified…

The specification on minimum park dimensions was put into place due to the stadium controversy surrounding the Brooklyn Dodgers' move to Los Angeles in 1958. The Dodgers played at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum while Dodger Stadium was being built, but the Coliseum was not designed to hold baseball games. The Coliseum's left-field fence was roughly 250 feet away from home plate and the club had to erect a 40-foot-high screen to protect against short home runs. The specification is not strictly enforced, however, so long as teams do not build parks that egregiously violate the rule. For example, Petco Park opened in 2004 and is officially 396 feet in center field, and Oriole Park at Camden Yards opened in 1992 and is 318 feet down the right-field line.

[beerguy55]

2 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

The specification is not strictly enforced, however, so long as teams do not build parks that egregiously violate the rule. For example, Petco Park opened in 2004 and is officially 396 feet in center field, and Oriole Park at Camden Yards opened in 1992 and is 318 feet down the right-field line.

Yeah, quite a few of the newer ones are seeing how far they can take it.  Minute Maid Park is 315 down left.  Oracle is 309 to right and then into McCovey Cove.  New Yankee Stadium is 314R and 318L...oftentimes a little home run stat at Yankee Stadium will show a HR that drops over the right field wall would not have left any other ball park.

And of course Fenway Park, built in 1912, has Pesky's Pole at 302 feet for the cheapest home run in the league.  (that distance is "official" - many suggest it is closer to 290 than 302)

[MadMax]

On 8/31/2022 at 8:55 AM, beerguy55 said:

for the cheapest home run in the league. 

Nuh-uh. Cheapest home run is something off the roof or “specified” catwalks at that wretched little hatbox in St. Petersburg. 
 

Joke of a venue. 

[beerguy55]

54 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Nuh-uh. Cheapest home run is something off the roof or “specified” catwalks at that wretched little hatbox in St. Petersburg. 
 

Joke of a venue. 

I sit corrected

[834k3r]

2 hours ago, MadMax said:

Nuh-uh. Cheapest home run is something off the roof or “specified” catwalks at that wretched little hatbox in St. Petersburg. 
 

Joke of a venue. 

Getting out of the parking lot is even worse. Terrible location for baseball all around.