Runner Missing Home Plate

[Ump242]

At 1:42:20'ish

So my assigner has been sending me the last two Saturdays to Arcadia little league in South Pasadena (at Bonita Park). He usually has me do the first three bases and then last plate as he has me working with two different umpires. Two man mechanics.

Anyways, SALL records all their games and posts the videos, which I just found out Saturday night. When during a game the ball hit the fence and knocked the camera down. As it was speaking with Wayne the score keeper he let me know that they do post them on YouTube, as you see the link above.

My concern or question is, if you will, is that I've seen videos where the umpire will just look at home plate when a runner misses the plate. And did I do this properly, or did I handle the situation incorrectly.  I'm asking you guys cuz I'd like to know how to do it properly and get better at this.

Constructive criticism requested 😉

[Ump242]

One of my friends just replied this to me via text.

 

"This was a LL game? There might have been potential obstruction on catcher but he stepped off the plate as runner was about to score. So no obstruction here. Did you notice the runner as he crossed HP? He hesitated and looked like he was going to step on HP but decided not to. He should have tagged plate, just to make sure."

Edited to add further response:

"The only concern I have with this is that time was called so ball was dead when appeal was made. I believe the correct way would be to put ball in play, pitcher disengages from mound and says 'Appealing runner tagged home' or something like that and then tosses ball to catcher." 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Ump242

[noumpere]

Why are you walking out in front of the plate and turning your back to the runner?  Back up behind the plate to watch this play.

 

Once you've seen the runner touch (or not) the plate, you can stop staring at it -- it's not going anywhere.

[Ump242]

9 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Why are you walking out in front of the plate and turning your back to the runner?  Back up behind the plate to watch this play.

 

Once you've seen the runner touch (or not) the plate, you can stop staring at it -- it's not going anywhere.

1) not sure why I turned my back to the runner after he had passed 3rd and going around in from of home plate... Something I'm definitely going to work on getting out of my system... 

 

2) like I said, I saw a couple videos... I'll have to find them where a college umpire was looking at home plate till either the runner touched home plate or he was appealed out

[SH0102]

An umpire is not supposed to “give away” that they missed the base.

Watch him touch (or not touch) and move along.

remember a missed base is an appeal play, but a runner has “acquired the base” when they pass it.  By not touching it, they are subject to appeal despite “acquiring” the base.

You could not have made that more obvious except to yell “he missed it, first one to get to the plate wins”

Just watch him touch/miss, get ready for the next play, and if they appeal, give them what you got.

the only time you stare and make no call is when a PLAY is made on the runner.  Even if he touches there you don’t signal safe bc there is no play, no tag attempt, nothing.  If ball comes in and runner slides/steps and missed plate, then you just keep officiating and make no signal and watch. 

[beerguy55]

5 hours ago, Ump242 said:

"The only concern I have with this is that time was called so ball was dead when appeal was made. I believe the correct way would be to put ball in play, pitcher disengages from mound and says 'Appealing runner tagged home' or something like that and then tosses ball to catcher." 

With this is mind, what's the appropriate way to communicate this, in this context?  It's obvious they want to appeal, they can't do so during a dead ball (FED it would just be verbal during dead ball)...are you telling them exactly that "sorry, you need to wait until the ball is live" and let them figure it out.

Or at this level more instructive?  At that point you're not giving anything away (staring at the plate  aside)...they know they want  to appeal, they just aren't doing it right.

[ATXBlue]

IMO no need to stare it down, nothing is going to happen without an appeal. 

 

Friendly word of advice, unless the 1BC is the HC don't let him come down the line and talk to you. 

[Lou B]

When the catcher touches the plate with the ball you do not call an out, Time had been called, the ball is dead. 

You simply tell the catcher an appeal cannot be made while the ball is dead.  Tell him to return the ball to the pitcher.  At that point it's up to the defense to know what to do.

[noumpere]

8 hours ago, Ump242 said:

 I believe the correct way would be to put ball in play, pitcher disengages from mound and says 'Appealing runner tagged home' or something like that and then tosses ball to catcher." 

Not needed.

[Velho]

46 minutes ago, noumpere said:

9 hours ago, Ump242 said:

 I believe the correct way would be to put ball in play, pitcher disengages from mound and says 'Appealing runner tagged home' or something like that and then tosses ball to catcher." 

Not needed.

Are you referring to it saying "mound" or (what I think he meant to say) "rubber"? If so, in this case where they want to appeal at home, how is it not a pitch and the batter not entitled to hit it?

Any other base, I'm with you.

[Ump242]

1 hour ago, Lou B said:

When the catcher touches the plate with the ball you do not call an out, Time had been called, the ball is dead. 

You simply tell the catcher an appeal cannot be made while the ball is dead.  Tell him to return the ball to the pitcher.  At that point it's up to the defense to know what to do.

Yup, I should have know better, a mistake was made and will not be made again

[DevildogUmp]

Ump242, 

You said this was little league is it an official Little League International league? The reason I ask is if it is you might want to let them know that if they are going to put out their games on social media, they probably should make sure they are not violating any of Little League International's safety rules:

1. Coach warming up a pitcher at ~1:01 mark

2. The second catcher for the purple team not wearing a dangling throat protector

As the umpire you need to address this since you will not be covered by Little League if something were to happen when not following a safety rule.

-Matt

[johnnyg08]

You got some good advice here. 

It take guts to post your games on here...this forum is a good place for this...you'll get constructive feedback. If you want a forum that just has everyone telling each other how good they are, then this isn't the one. (I'm not implying that you're that person) You're here to learn, like the rest of us. 

Welcome and thanks for umpiring. 

[Rich Ives]

On 4/25/2022 at 8:13 PM, Velho said:

 how is it not a pitch and the batter not entitled to hit it?

 

Because they announced it as an appeal. Shoo the batter away if necessary.

[Velho]

7 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

On 4/25/2022 at 5:13 PM, Velho said:

 how is it not a pitch and the batter not entitled to hit it?

 

Because they announced it as an appeal. Shoo the batter away if necessary.

I follow, thanks. Dead ball appeal seems like something NFHS has gotten right.  

[Rich Ives]

9 minutes ago, Velho said:

Dead ball appeal seems like something NFHS has gotten right.  

Disagree - it's a lazy way out. Prevents an attempt to fix and prevents the possibility of screwing up the appeal. 

[Senor Azul]

Mr. Velho, the pitcher must disengage before throwing home for an appeal. The batter has every right to swing at a pitch. The batter cannot hit or swing at a throw—no need to shoo him away. Here’s the difference between a pitch and a throw as explained in the 2017 Jaksa/Roder manual (pp. 148-149):

Pitch versus Throw to Home

If an in-contact pitcher steps toward home, there cannot be a throw--there can only be a pitch or balk (or both).

E.G.: R3 is stealing home. Without disengaging, the pitcher steps forward and pitches, whereupon the batter swings and contacts the catcher: defensive interference.

Moreover, if a pitcher who is not in-contact (or has disengaged) steps and throws home, there cannot be a pitch (unless there is deceptive imitation of a motion to pitch).

E.G.: The pitcher is in the windup position, his hands apart, and the batter is prepared to bat. As R3 dashes for home, the pitcher properly disengages the rubber and throws home. The batter swings at the ball, contacts the catcher (who is standing over home plate) and R3 slides into home without being tagged: the pitcher has not balked. The batter has interfered with the catcher's try to field the throw, and an out must be declared for his interference.

[ArchAngel72]

Would be nice to have time stamps in the post about when stuff happened

 

So I hope this is 50/70  No umpire should be on the infield on a 60 foot diamond

Also to add when you go around the plate to look at something take the mask off. Least thats what I was taught for a better view when possible remove the mask. EDIT I see you did sometimes but not always... 

Its a long video I been skipping around a lot

Edit 2  I see runners now leading off so it must be 50/70

 

 

 

[Lou B]

13 hours ago, DevildogUmp said:

Ump242, 

You said this was little league is it an official Little League International league? The reason I ask is if it is you might want to let them know that if they are going to put out their games on social media, they probably should make sure they are not violating any of Little League International's safety rules:

1. Coach warming up a pitcher at ~1:01 mark

2. The second catcher for the purple team not wearing a dangling throat protector

As the umpire you need to address this since you will not be covered by Little League if something were to happen when not following a safety rule.

-Matt

Also, they need to have signed Waivers for those shown on camera (that includes the umpires).

Leagues and their streaming services have been successfully sued by parents who did not want their children shown on the internet.  It only takes one!