Would You Toss?

[jonathantullos]

I had a debate in a group on Facebook on this and wanted to bring this to you fine people. Hopefully the video can be seen but just in case... It appears this is a FED game. Kid hits a homer and as he leaves the plate area he does a bat flip. I said the kid should have been tossed for intentionally throwing his bat and because it also appears that this was an act of taunting. Some disagreed. What say you?

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1204004369722998&id=451763554947087

 

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[MT73]

Nah.

I would inform the coach--quietly--to speak to the kid and tell him to please not do it again.

[Mike D]

I had a debate in a group on Facebook on this and wanted to bring this to you fine people. Hopefully the video can be seen but just in case... It appears this is a FED game. Kid hits a homer and as he leaves the plate area he does a bat flip. I said the kid should have been tossed for intentionally throwing his bat and because it also appears that this was an act of taunting. Some disagreed. What say you?
 
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1204004369722998&id=451763554947087
 
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I agree with the 3.3.1b carelessly throw bat & 3.3.1f unsportsmanlike conduct.
Team warning and move on.

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[scrounge]

No ejection here, but I'm absolutely giving them a team warning for that. Also quietly saying to the catcher that I'll handle it and there's no need for anything else.

[CJK]

When a bat comes that close to me, I pick it up and deliver it to the coach personally along with the message.

I know that's not necessarily the right move at every level, but I also know that it's reasonable at my level.

[BrianC14]

32 minutes ago, CJK said:

When a bat comes that close to me, I pick it up and deliver it to the coach personally along with the message.

I know that's not necessarily the right move at every level, but I also know that it's reasonable at my level.

I think that I would do the same, especially given the fact that he intentionally threw the bat toward the field.   Deliver it to the coach along with a team warning that the next display of unsportsmanlike conduct would result in the player's ejection and restriction for the head coach.   

This kind of Baloney Sandwich display sticks in my craw...  I'm reminded of the admonishment that Bear Bryant would give to a player who overtly celebrated after scoring a touchdown:  "Act like you've been there before."

 

Now, having said all that... let me ask this question:   in FED games (or maybe it's just high school games using FED rules), we are instructed to ask each coach "Are your players properly and legally equipped, and ready to play the game in a sporting manner?"

To me, that last part is, in effect, a warning, is it not?   Discuss.  

[Mudisfun]

After watching the video I realized quickly why I don't spend time on FB looking at baseball stuff...

"That is an automatic out" was the first and last thing I decided to read.

Coach, this is your team warning for unsportsmanlike conduct. 

Move on.

[stkjock]

Is it wrong that I would hope my pitcher gave him one in the ribs next AB 

[Mike D]

Is it wrong that I would hope my pitcher gave him one in the ribs next AB 

That is precisely why we need to address unsportsmanlike behavior.

In the old days this batter would get some chin music, or a bean ball on his next trip to the plate for showing up the pitcher that would end up in a bench clearing brawl.

We are not going to let this happen in a high school or LL game. This is where your preventive umpiring comes in.

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[LRZ]

Unless this kid or team has been a problem earlier, eject? No. Warn? Yes, definitely. When it's called for, I'm not afraid to eject, but I'm not trigger-happy, either. Post-incident preventive officiating.

[ElkOil]

I'll offer the dissenting opinion. I'd absolutely EJ for this. It would be bad enough if he flipped the bat toward his dugout, but onto the field? Whoa. That has to be taken care of swiftly. The batter was clearly engaged in taunting and particularly in my association, we've been emphasizing this kind of thing this year.

[catsbackr]

17 hours ago, BrianC14 said:

Now, having said all that... let me ask this question:   in FED games (or maybe it's just high school games using FED rules), we are instructed to ask each coach "Are your players properly and legally equipped, and ready to play the game in a sporting manner?"

To me, that last part is, in effect, a warning, is it not?   Discuss.  

No, it's not a warning.  Warnings are not issued at the plate meeting.

 

And to answer the original question, no I would not dump him.

[BretMan]

If you were reading the Facebook discussion...you probably already know my opinion on this.

[johnnyg08]

I'm probably ejecting him. The warning does no good. So the next kid who comes up and bat flips like that?  Give me a break. I'll take a bat flip and a warning all day and twice on Sunday. 

You gonna warn F1 when he hits him in the ribs the next time up?

Run him and teach them all a lesson.  

[harrisonj23]

Dont take the fun out of baseball. Let it be. 

[jonathantullos]

Dont take the fun out of baseball. Let it be. 

I think your idea of fun and mine are completely different. Showboating and taunting aren't on my list. Sad to see they are on yours.

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[Mister B]

On 5/24/2017 at 1:34 PM, BrianC14 said:

 I'm reminded of the admonishment that Bear Bryant would give to a player who overtly celebrated after scoring a touchdown:  "Act like you've been there before." 

I like this, after he's done, ask the batter, "Nice hit, first dinger?" If he responds yes, say, "Excellent job, then we won't be needing the celebration toss on the next one." if he says no, "Wow, from that bat flip, I would have guessed you've been in a hitting slump all year." 

[jonathantullos]

Sad to see how much you try and over officiate the game. Kid hit a big homerun, let him toss his bat. My gosh. Worry about the things that matter. If the pitcher chooses to hit the kid his next AB then so be it. Baseball is the only game that sorts itself out. Dont worry about stupid stuff. 

We will have to agree to disagree.

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[BrianC14]

6 hours ago, Mister B said:

I like this, after he's done, ask the batter, "Nice hit, first dinger?" If he responds yes, say, "Excellent job, then we won't be needing the celebration toss on the next one." if he says no, "Wow, from that bat flip, I would have guessed you've been in a hitting slump all year." 

Consider this stolen.   Heheheeeeee

[ElkOil]

7 hours ago, harrisonj23 said:

Sad to see how much you try and over officiate the game. Kid hit a big homerun,1. let him toss his bat. My gosh. 2. Worry about the things that matter. 3. If the pitcher chooses to hit the kid his next AB then so be it. Baseball is the only game that sorts itself out. Dont worry about stupid stuff. 

1. Absolutely not when it's intended to taunt the other team, as was the case in this situation, in my judgement.

2. Taunting and sportsmanship absolutely matter. Addressing this critical in order to avoid your next statement:

3. I cannot believe you'd condone this. No umpire worth his salt would ever make such a statement.

[LRZ]

What is the point of making ad hominem judgments about matters of opinion? Different styles, personalities and approaches, myriad variables. . . . Just disagree.

[ElkOil]

4 hours ago, harrisonj23 said:

I guess Umpires are getting softer just like America, shame. Maybe you're just not calling the levels where the game runs on its own, so you feel the need to always interject yourself into the game. 

Wow. You could not be more wrong.

High school sports are educational endeavors before they are anything else, so lets get that square before this conversation continues. The field is an extension of the classroom. If you don't believe that, you should not umpire at the high school level.

In that light, there are times when as arbiters of the rule set we are bound by, we have to take steps to ensure sportsman-like behavior is adhered to. And if it's not, we remove the offender from the game for two reasons. One, it's a learning experience that if you cross a certain line, there are consequences that are beyond your control. Two, removing the cause of trouble will hopefully prevent the escalation of that same trouble, or keep more trouble from occurring.

You are paid as a professional umpire to follow these and other mandates. If you choose not to, you're not doing your job in its entirety, and you're picking and choosing which rules you'll uphold and which ones you won't, and that's never a good position for an umpire to be in.

So my suggestion to you is realize the value you add by taking care of problems before they get out of hand. Doing so it a critical part of game management.

[LA ump]

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 2:25 PM, harrisonj23 said:

Sad to see how much you try and over officiate the game. Kid hit a big homerun, let him toss his bat. My gosh. Worry about the things that matter. If the pitcher chooses to hit the kid his next AB then so be it. Baseball is the only game that sorts itself out. Dont worry about stupid stuff. 

Many of our fellow Umps here are cops. If the kid who's beaned parents decide to take their anger out on you. Should they ignore it because you deserved it? As an umpire for kids, the most important thing is safety. Allowing kids to throw at each other is a big violation of that responsibility. If I was your assignor, you would be done working for me and would let other assignors in my area know as well. If you truly believe what you wrote, please do everyone in your area a favor and stop umpiring today.

[Replacematt]

11 hours ago, harrisonj23 said:

I guess Umpires are getting softer just like America, shame. Maybe you're just not calling the levels where the game runs on its own, so you feel the need to always interject yourself into the game. 

I work the levels to which you allude...and if you're not handling this at the HS level, you need to quit.

[beerguy55]

Would your opinions differ if that carelessly tossed bat had come down on the catcher's or umpire's head?

The fact that it missed (not by much) doesn't make it a harmless bat flip.