CJK

Guys, I really appreciate the input, especially given that it's a question with its roots in slow-pitch softball. I totally understand the idea of a retreating/advancing runner being required to touch the bases in order and the "last time by" principle, and I thought about them when I considered the situation. I 100% understand using those concepts if this had been R1 advancing past 2B on the play, then retreating, then advancing again. I'm struggling with the idea that R2 can be "retreating" on this play, though. I didn't think it was an option for a runner to return to base before his TOP base (Jean Segura in 2013 notwithstanding). R2 certainly wasn't running the bases in in reverse order to retouch 1B. Suppose F6 were near the baseline and the ball had been grounded toward 2B, R2 retreated to 2B, F6 took an angle right across 2B, and R2 hopped out of the way (toward 1B) to avoid contact, then advanced to 3B. Would you have the same call? Please understand that I truly respect your answers and I do not intend this to be argumentative at all. I'm just really challenged by calling this "retreating" and trying to find a way that feels more intuitive, I guess.

This happened in a USSSA slow-pitch softball game, but I'm very interested in rulings from any code. R2, outs don't matter, ball lined up the middle. R2 avoids the ball by moving past 2B toward RF (basically along the 2B/3B line extended). The ball goes into the outfield and R2 advances to 3B. At the end of the play, F9 appeals a missed base on the premise that R2 "retreated" past 2B and failed to touch 2B while advancing. Is R2 out on appeal? If you'd call R2 out, what rule would you use to support it?

I've never seen a 3d printer print paper. I've only seen them print plastic. And I have one at home that can print small pieces (about 7x7x7) using mostly the cheapest plastics (ABS and PLA). Neither of those is suitable for a throat guard, though, unless you want one that looks cool but will break down in the sun and probably split and slice your jugular if it gets hit. There are 3d printers that can print materials like carbon fiber-infused nylon (nylon carbonite), which is billed as being nearly as strong as steel. The spools of material aren't too pricey (in the $80-$100) range. The low-end printers for the material are quite a bit pricier ($5000-ish). Let me add that my son had some 3d parts printed for his Eagle project ( about 7x2x5 plastic pieces that sit on the top of a 1 1/4 inch pipe and support lighting elements. We had them printed by a service that we found on the internet (I think about $60 for 10 pieces). He got other quotes (online and locally) for up to $250 to print the same parts. He could have had the part designed for another $250 or so, but we did that ourselves. We learned about designing and printing the part from the DoSpace in Omaha, but ended up downloading a free program to design the parts on a laptop at home. I'm sure you could find places online (and probably locally, if you live in a city of any size) that will print your design.

All of this assumes that the ball is not touched by a player, of course.

How will you evaluate whether it's actually protective? I mean, what if it's of low quality? And how will you defend yourself legally if that unapproved "protective" equipment shatters and a shard of it goes into the catcher's eye? What will you do if it's your own eye? If you follow the rules the way they're written, NOCSAE and NFHS are on the hook. If you don't, it's you.

I don't disagree with you in principle, @beerguy55, but every umpire makes mistakes, experiences brain cramps, misses a call due to poor timing, or whatever. Sometimes, we don't really have a way to fix it. This thread contains a good example of an instance where an umpire might err, putting one or both teams in jeopardy, but has a way to right the wrong.

We do, and that's why we require the coaches to ensure that their players are legally and properly equipped. But "player safety" is not carte blanche for behavior that is inappropriate or can be perceived as inappropriate.

I think the wording "In this case" is very important here. In the case play, it's probably the right thing to do, assuming that the runners did not attempt to advance until after the ball touched the ground. In fact, it was probably the right thing to do in the OP, as well. However, if the runner from 3rd (for whatever reason, including simply not being aware of the situation) had advanced immediately and been "almost home" when the ball touched the ground, it would probably be right to score that run. And if the runner from 1st (again for whatever reason, including simply not being aware of the situation) had advanced immediately, s/he may very well be declared out because s/he would have been doubled off 1st or tagged out at 2nd as the trailing of the 2 runners standing there. The OP umpire's (and the case play's) solution of "everybody goes back" will probably be right most of the time, but it's not a rule. Sometimes, you have to be the umpire, make an unpopular decision, let someone (respectfully) express their disagreement/displeasure, and live with it.

What a perfect citation. This is exactly the situation I had in mind.

Since the original question has been pretty thoroughly answered, I don't feel bad about this minor hijack: Suppose R1 was going on the pitch and the ball was hit in the air to F7. As R1 is rounding 2B, s/he sees the fly ball and heads directly back to 1B (missing 2B). F7 makes the catch and throws toward F3, who does not catch the ball. R1 sees the throw get away, touches 1B, and advances to 2B as F3 retrieves the ball. There are no longer any oustanding appeal-able base running errors, are there?

That seems like it could be disastrous if you end up with a slicing ball near the line.

Why so much arguing? That doesn't sound like a fun league at all.

Quite possibly true in higher-level baseball. When it comes to softball, though, I've used them at all levels and I love them.

It's a better parallel if the punching bag is standing there ahead of time and just slides over 2 feet right at the end. Plus, the instructions for the test need to indicate that the punching bag might move, and also make clear that it's completely against the rules of the exercise to cause significant damage the punching bag.

If I'm enforcing that penalty correctly and the coach asks how come his runner can't score, I'd ask him if he's saying he wants the option to take the play. If he doesn't even ask a question about it, though, I'm not going to do his job for him.

I wish this training would hurry up and make its way to the fields where I work. I feel like coaches are teaching catchers that my toe is a hat hook and they should hang the helmet on it whenever they can.

I'm not sure anyone really thinks that the runner decided halfway home that he was going to truck the catcher. And I feel like everybody agrees that the catcher stepped into the path of the runner, and that he did it late. In fact, it seems to me like everyone agrees on all those things (which makes this OBS), and even that contact is virtually unavoidable. It's the reaction of the runner to the catcher's movement that's inappropriate. He could have put out his hands out, elbows bent, to protect himself. He could have drawn his arms into his body to protect himself. He could have tried to turn his body to duck/squeeze/dance past the catcher. Any of those would have been fine and entitled him to an award of home plate. Instead, he reacted by lowering his shoulder and driving up through the chest of the catcher with his shoulder and elbow. That's not what you do to protect yourself. That's what you do when you want to knock a guy out of his shoes and make him blow snot bubbles. There are sports where that's appropriate game-related action, and baseball isn't one of them. That's why it's MC.

Make a significant adjustment to his path, probably not. Make a significant adjustment to his lean and upper body rotation, certainly. He pulled his arms in, leaned forward, rotated his upper body, dropped his shoulder, and drove through F2 all in a matter of a step and a half. If he extends his arms, has a backward lean, or tries to duck away, he's safe on OBS. If he loads up and leads with his shoulder and elbow at chest height, then he's out for MC.

Sorry, guys. I thought was a chance to look at the broader situation and maybe learn something, not just second-guess some guy on a neighborhood field in NJ. Thanks for helping me put it into perspective.

I don't think these are reasonable blanket statements. 1. R2 has a huge jump compared to B/R, especially because s/he's off on contact with 2 outs. R2 can likely be well around 3B and headed home by the time F4 actually makes a throw, and it's pretty common for the F4 for pat the ball in the glove, check the seams, shuffle the feet, and take something off the throw, all because s/he "has time." Once all that has happened, if F3 is off-balance from the effort of stretching enough that s/he may have pulled his/her foot, I'd say a decent runner has a pretty good chance of scoring. 2. Depending on the level of the umpire, the timing of this call should be such that it's unlikely that the fielder could react to it in time to get a moderately hustling R2 at home. It's not a video game with instant feedback, and there should be no hurry at all to make an out call at 1B if that's what the umpire had.

Because the OP isn't specific, I think this statement needs some qualification. I've used an iX3 at all levels of fast-pitch softball, and never once felt vulnerable. I might wish it had a little more ventilation, but the protection is fine *for softball*. I don't wear it to work baseball, but I can believe that the spacing of the plates would be an issue there. The size and speed of the ball makes a big difference in the amount of energy a CP can distribute. I know it's mostly baseball umpires here, and I respect that, but I think it's important (especially in the gear threads) to appreciate that the internet brings all kinds of umpires here, and if the site can give softball guys (like me) good gear advice for their level/sport, it's the right thing to do. Heck, it might even be a way for you to offload some gear that's not appropriate for higher-level baseball, but just fine for all levels of softball.

I'll add that the run wouldn't score even if the defense played on R3 at home, R3 was ruled safe, and then B/R was retired before reaching first (whether by tagging the base or the runner). This twist isn't even all that common at lower levels, when the batter hears 3 coaches, 25 parents, and a half dozen grandparents all start hollering, sees R3 coming, and jumps back out of the way. The defense may try to make the play at home on auto-pilot, and once the dust clears, it dawns on somebody that B/R is still standing there, so F2 makes a tag. B/R out, and no run scored, even though R3 was explicitly called safe!

I know it seems like you couldn't possibly blow this call, but I've missed an obvious swing like this before. I was working very bad softball, and I flinched hard on that up-and-in pitch, believing it was going to be the 5th or 6th time in that game that the catcher couldn't be bothered to move her glove and instead used my face to stop the ball. What I can't put my head around: how does the base umpire get it wrong on the appeal?

By rule, the runner doesn't have to avoid contact, s/he has to attempt to avoid contact, which s/he did. No violation. By rule, the defender does have to hold the ball securely throughout the tag, which s/he did not. Safe.

Whistle the puck down when you lose sight of it. No goal.