Penalty

[Guest Gump]

Batter lays down a bunt down the 3B line. When the catcher reaches to field the ball, his skull cap falls off, hits the ball, the ball then goes foul from the skull cap hitting it. Is this a detached equipment violation ? if so, what is the correct penalty ? 
 

[Rich Ives]

MLBUM:  If a batted ball strikes a loose helmet accidentally (no intent on part of runner to interfere) in fair
territory, the ball remains in play the same as if it had not hit the helmet.

So play on - which makes it a fair or foul ball if it subsequently meets the one of the fair/foul ball criteria.

And detached equipment violations have to be deliberate to be penalized

[basejester]

5.06 (7.00) Running the Bases

. .  .
(4) Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out, advance:

. . .

(B) Three bases, if a fielder deliberately touches a fair ball with his cap, mask or any part of his uniform detached from its proper place on his person. The ball is in play and the batter may advance to home base at his peril;

 

Rule 5.09(a)(8) Comment (Rule 6.05(h) Comment ):

. . .
In cases where the batting helmet is accidentally hit with a batted ball on or over fair territory or a thrown ball, the ball remains in play the same as if it has not hit the helmet. If a batted ball strikes a batting helmet or any other object foreign to the natural ground while on foul territory, it is a foul ball and the ball is dead. If, in the umpire’s judgment, there is intent on the part of a baserunner to interfere with a batted or thrown ball by dropping the helmet or throwing it at the ball, then the runner would be out, the ball dead and runners would return to last base legally touched.

[Thunderheads]

I believe it's "play on" ...... I also believe 'detached equipment' needs to be intentional.   I'm probably wrong, but just winging it without citing anything.  But, don't worry ...the 'gurus' will come on soon!  

[Thunderheads]

1 minute ago, Rich Ives said:

MLBUM:  If a batted ball strikes a loose helmet accidentally (no intent on part of runner to interfere) in fair
territory, the ball remains in play the same as if it had not hit the helmet.

So play on - which makes it a fair or foul ball if it subsequently meets the one of the fair/foul ball criteria.

And detached equipment violations have to be deliberate to be penalized

I believe this is same for FED as well ......

[noumpere]

30 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

I believe this is same for FED as well ......

Yes, it is (although the chances of having a legal skull cap in FED are nil.)

[ALStripes17]

Yes, it is (although the chances of having a legal skull cap in FED are nil.)

And if the batted ball touches the illegal skull cap? Haha

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Stk004]

3 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

MLBUM:  If a batted ball strikes a loose helmet accidentally (no intent on part of runner to interfere) in fair
territory, the ball remains in play the same as if it had not hit the helmet.

So play on - which makes it a fair or foul ball if it subsequently meets the one of the fair/foul ball criteria.

And detached equipment violations have to be deliberate to be penalized

Hold on, isn't this referring to a runner, not F2? I'm not saying I disagree, I think it's fair ball play on, but that sounds like offensive criteria. 

[Rich Ives]

5 minutes ago, Stk004 said:

Hold on, isn't this referring to a runner, not F2? I'm not saying I disagree, I think it's fair ball play on, but that sounds like offensive criteria. 

It's showing the concept. Do you have a better reference?

[Thunderheads]

1 minute ago, Rich Ives said:

It's showing the concept. Do you have a better reference?

I think he would have posted it if he had a better reference, right Rich?  I think he simply found something and is questioning it, I don't think he's calling you on the carpet

[Rich Ives]

28 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

, I don't think he's calling you on the carpet

Dibn't think he was. Just giving my reason and asking if he knows of something better.

[maven]

2 hours ago, Stk004 said:

Hold on, isn't this referring to a runner, not F2? I'm not saying I disagree, I think it's fair ball play on, but that sounds like offensive criteria. 

Think for a moment: the ruling states that accidental contact with a runner's (fallen) helmet is nothing, even if it hinders the defense's fielding.

So you're wondering whether the same ruling should be extended to the defense hindering themselves? Or what, we should kill it and call the BR out? Where are we going with this question?

[Richvee]

So in OBR, we have  fair or foul depending on the outcome regardless of what the dropped equipment does to the ball?

FED seems to say we have a fair ball as soon as it contacts the equipment over fair territory...

2-5-1

 . A fair ball is a batted ball which:

 

f. while on or over fair territory, touches the person of an umpire or player, their clothing or equipment

[maven]

28 minutes ago, Richvee said:

So in OBR, we have  fair or foul depending on the outcome regardless of what the dropped equipment does to the ball?

FED seems to say we have a fair ball as soon as it contacts the equipment over fair territory...

2-5-1

 . A fair ball is a batted ball which:

 

f. while on or over fair territory, touches the person of an umpire or player, their clothing or equipment

In that context, as in most, 'equipment' means 'properly worn equipment'. So if the helmet is still on his head, then yes.

When 'equipment' does not denote not properly worn equipment, it is modified, such as "detached player equipment," or "illegal equipment."

[Stk004]

I can't imagine it would be a foul ball in any ruleset. 

[maven]

2 minutes ago, Stk004 said:

I can't imagine it would be a foul ball in any ruleset. 

It's fair or foul by the usual criteria. Hitting detached equipment in this situation is like hitting a rock.

[Stk004]

28 minutes ago, maven said:

It's fair or foul by the usual criteria. Hitting detached equipment in this situation is like hitting a rock.

So if it hits the helmet and rolls foul before first or third, it's a foul ball?

[noumpere]

10 hours ago, Stk004 said:

So if it hits the helmet and rolls foul before first or third, it's a foul ball?

Yes.  All codes. (well, assuming it doesn't then hit something else and roll fair ...)

[maven]

10 hours ago, Stk004 said:

So if it hits the helmet and rolls foul before first or third, it's a foul ball?

Yes, and if it's F2's helmet that deflected it, you can expect an unpleasant conversation from the OC.

[Stk004]

6 hours ago, maven said:

Yes, and if it's F2's helmet that deflected it, you can expect an unpleasant conversation from the OC.

Is this assuming the helmet fell off accidentally? What do we have if F2 throws his helmet at the ball? Is it three bases even though the ball is not in flight?

Edited July 26, 2016 by Stk004

[basejester]

2 hours ago, Stk004 said:

Is this assuming the helmet fell off accidentally? What do we have if F2 throws his helmet at the ball? Is it three bases even though the ball is not in flight?

Yes.

[maven]

6 hours ago, Stk004 said:

Is this assuming the helmet fell off accidentally? What do we have if F2 throws his helmet at the ball? Is it three bases even though the ball is not in flight?

Is it 3 bases for contacting a ball in flight or a batted ball? Need a ball be in flight to count as a batted ball?