Pitcher Decoy Trick

[chalen]

A twist on the hidden ball trick...

B1 reaches 1B. The ball remains live as the pitcher and first-baseman confer. The first-baseman goes to the mound and positions himself astride the pitcher's plate, intending to fool the runner that the pitcher is astride the pitcher's plate. The real pitcher, with the ball hidden in his glove, walks to 1B and pretends to be the first-baseman. B1 steps off 1B and is tagged by F1. Balk? Out? "Time! Don't do that again!"?

F1 and F3 are identical twins.

[ALStripes17]

A twist on the hidden ball trick...

B1 reaches 1B. The ball remains live as the pitcher and first-baseman confer. The first-baseman goes to the mound and positions himself astride the pitcher's plate, intending to fool the runner that the pitcher is astride the pitcher's plate. The real pitcher, with the ball hidden in his glove, walks to 1B and pretends to be the first-baseman. B1 steps off 1B and is tagged by F1. Balk? Out? "Time! Don't do that again!"?

F1 and F3 are identical twins.

Eject everyone for making me fool with this sort of nonsense...

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[Tksjewelry]

Oh FFS

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[scrounge]

I think Al and Tks have pretty much summed up how much this 9th world play deserves....

[maven]

I'd like to think that I'd notice that it wasn't F1 going to the mound, as he's wearing a different number.

Call time, ask whether he's changing pitchers and needs to warm up the new one.

If I didn't notice, then I'd reverse my mistaken balk call and do what I should have done had I been paying attention.

There, that should do it.

[FleasOf1000Camels]

As far as I'm concerned, I don't care which of the twins does it...but if a defensive player takes a pitching stance on or astride the rubber, HE just became the pitcher...and if he did that without having the ball, he has committed a balk.

[ALStripes17]

As far as I'm concerned, I don't care which of the twins does it...but if a defensive player takes a pitching stance on or astride the rubber, HE just became the pitcher...and if he did that without having the ball, he has committed a balk.

Pretty sure you don't have rule support for that in FED... I mean the whole 'HE just became the pitcher comment.'

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[FleasOf1000Camels]

After doing some research, I believe ALStripes17 is probably correct, at least with FED.  My original thought process was that once F3 assumed a pitching stance, he became the pitcher.  But FED 2.28.1 defines the pitcher as "the player who is designated in the lineup as being responsible for delivering the ball to the batter."  Since F3 is NOT so "designated in the lineup", I suppose he can't be the pitcher, and therefore not subject to pitching regulations.

[maineump]

18 minutes ago, FleasOf1000Camels said:

After doing some research, I believe ALStripes17 is probably correct, at least with FED.  My original thought process was that once F3 assumed a pitching stance, he became the pitcher.  But FED 2.28.1 defines the pitcher as "the player who is designated in the lineup as being responsible for delivering the ball to the batter."  Since F3 is NOT so "designated in the lineup", I suppose he can't be the pitcher, and therefore not subject to pitching regulations.

Just another thought - unannounced substitutes are legal in Fed. With him going to the mound, does it make him an unannounced pitcher? Or does he have to throw a warm-up pitch first. In some cases, crossing the foul line and going to the mound, makes him legally the pitcher.

 

[ALStripes17]

Just another thought - unannounced substitutes are legal in Fed. With him going to the mound, does it make him an unannounced pitcher? Or does he have to throw a warm-up pitch first. In some cases, crossing the foul line and going to the mound, makes him legally the pitcher.

 

Substitutes (announced or unannounced) must be during a dead ball period.

Another argument for why we put the ball back in play every inning :

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[maven]

1 hour ago, maineump said:

Just another thought - unannounced substitutes are legal in Fed. With him going to the mound, does it make him an unannounced pitcher? Or does he have to throw a warm-up pitch first. In some cases, crossing the foul line and going to the mound, makes him legally the pitcher.

 

No, no, and no. (Apologies to the color blind among us).

An unannounced sub enters the game when the ball is live and he takes his place on the pitcher's plate (FED 3-3-1b 3-1-1b). In the OP, he straddled the rubber.

But this isn't a substitute of any kind, unannounced or otherwise: he has been playing F3, and is now going to the mound.

[maineump]

8 minutes ago, maven said:

No, no, and no. (Apologies to the color blind among us).

An unannounced sub enters the game when the ball is live and he takes his place on the pitcher's plate (FED 3-3-1b). In the OP, he straddled the rubber.

But this isn't a substitute of any kind, unannounced or otherwise: he has been playing F3, and is now going to the mound.

Just throwing stuff out there for discussion. I looked the situation up in the FED and how does 3-3-1b fi?. That isn't a fake tag situation.

Under 3-1-1b he becomes legal when taking his place on the mound when the ball is live. I have seen pitchers and fielders switch for 1 batter then switch back after the batter, as long as the original pitcher did not come out of the game.

[maven]

28 minutes ago, maineump said:

Just throwing stuff out there for discussion. I looked the situation up in the FED and how does 3-3-1b fi?. That isn't a fake tag situation.

Under 3-1-1b he becomes legal when taking his place on the mound when the ball is live. I have seen pitchers and fielders switch for 1 batter then switch back after the batter, as long as the original pitcher did not come out of the game.

Yes, 3-1-1b. I mistyped.

You're not reading 3-1-1b correctly: it says a substitute has entered the game when the ball is live and he engages the pitcher's plate, not when he is "on the mound."

And, the rule pertains to substitutes entering the game, not to fielders changing defensive positions. The latter is not a substitution, and so 3-1-1 does not govern it.

[ALStripes17]

Yes, 3-1-1b. I mistyped.

You're not reading 3-1-1b correctly: it says a substitute has entered the game when the ball is live and he engages the pitcher's plate, not when he is "on the mound."

And, the rule pertains to substitutes entering the game, not to fielders changing defensive positions. The latter is not a substitution, and so 3-1-1 does not govern it.

3-1-2 also refers to when a pitcher is replaced, then the SUBSTITUTE pitcher shall...

And 3-1-1 requires any substitutions be made during a dead ball.

Just reiterating my point

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[maineump]

11 minutes ago, ALStripes17 said:

3-1-2 also refers to when a pitcher is replaced, then the SUBSTITUTE pitcher shall...

And 3-1-1 requires any substitutions be made during a dead ball.

Just reiterating my point

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I understand the dead ball thing, so ruling on the OP is a nothing? Nothing illegal here? I would hope to be paying attention to the ball, the fielders (#s and possibly 1B mitt) and stop it before it happens. Call time and reset.

Bush league baseball IMO.

[Tksjewelry]

So if they've done nothing illegal, are we saying to give them the out? If they're not doing anything illegal, what's to stop and reset?

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[ElkOil]

1 hour ago, Tksjewelry said:

So if they've done nothing illegal, are we saying to give them the out? If they're not doing anything illegal, what's to stop and reset?

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With something like this where one team is clearly trying to trick the other using wholly unconventional methods, I'd kill it for the absurdity alone. You can always cite FED 3-3-1-f4 which prohibits behaving in a manner not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.

[Tksjewelry]

With something like this where one team is clearly trying to trick the other using wholly unconventional methods, I'd kill it for the absurdity alone. You can always cite FED 1-3-1-f4 which prohibits behaving in a manner not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.

Legal in OBR?

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[ALStripes17]

With something like this where one team is clearly trying to trick the other using wholly unconventional methods, I'd kill it for the absurdity alone. You can always cite FED 1-3-1-f4 which prohibits behaving in a manner not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.

3-3-1 (f4) ...

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[ElkOil]

23 minutes ago, ALStripes17 said:

3-3-1 (f4) ...

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Wow. What a botch job I did on that! Edited and fixed!