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[umpire_scott]

EJECTION #1 - My partner had the ejection, but it was well deserved.  Batter in the box R2, RH pitcher.  Pitcher comes set and then starts his pitch.  Batter holds his hand up but does not verbalize time or ask for it and then quickly puts it back down.  Pitcher stops his motion.  Balk is called.  Runner advances to third.  Coach tells his pitcher to just follow through with the pitch.  I know that the batter cannot cause a balk, but it was determined that his action was not sufficient to cause the balk as he did not verbalize time or step out of the box.  In retrospect I think I should have waived the balk off, but I didn't at the time.  A few pitches later the same thing happens except this time the batter verbalizes "time" and steps out of the box.  I call "time" and state "no balk, batter actions caused the pitcher to react".  In the meantime R3 starts to break for home.  DC yells at his pitcher about it and R3 heads back to 3rd.  Pitcher throws to third and he is tagged out.  I immediately say "no play ball is dead, time was called".  DC yells that I can't call time while the ball is in play and that since it wasn't a balk there was no reason to call time. I correct him but to no avail.  After a short time he finally goes back to his dugout.  Next batter hits a gapper to score the go ahead run and comes out of the dugout yelling that we cost his team the game.  My partner gives him a warning then runs him.  How can a coach really think that the ball is still live when a pitcher committed a balk, but the infraction was waived off due to the actions of the batter?

EJECTION #2 - 14U AAA game.  Very competitive, teams don't like each other much.  HT is up 4-3 bottom of 6.  One out R2 and R3.  Batter lifts a fly ball to CF.  Catch is made and both runners tag.  I have a play coming into home and R2 is going to third.  I know I have a timing play as they have no shot at R3.  So I'm slightly up the line to get a good angle to have a clear view of R3 coming home and can still see the timing of R2 coming into third.as I see R2 begin his slide I turn and look at home and see R3 about 3 feet from the plate.  I then turn to my partner see what his call is.  He calls out.  I point to HP and verbalize "run does not count".  Third base coach (also head coach) comes running at me screaming at me that I was not even watching the play.  I sternly told him that I was looking right at the play and called it correctly and then quickly ejected him.  Or rather confirmed his ejection of himself.  The true ejection happened as he was maniacally running at me and screaming.  I'm not perfect, but when I do everything right, as I was trained, and am 100% certain that I got the call correct and they come running out like that it really pisses me off.  Because he was so convincing that his fans were chirping about it to.

EJECTION #3 - I'm on the dish and on the second pitch a ball comes in low and away.  Batter squares to bunt and looks like he begins to offer but then pulls back, F2 moves blocking my view.  I don't have enough to say he clearly offered at the pitch so I verbalize ball.  F2 asks me to appeal to my partner at first so I do and he strikes it.  Count gets to 2-2 and then the next pitch is a ball making it full.  Batter drops his bat and heads towards first.  I return him stating that it's three balls.  He looks incredulous.  So I tell him that the bunt was judged an attempt and therefore that ball was changed to a strike.  Third base coach (HC) asks for an explanation.  I explain that "I assume your batter didn't realize or forgot about the appeal on the bunt attempt".  Coach says "so you assumed the count".  I try to say no I assumed your batter didn't know the count for the reason I mentioned.  He says "Well when you assume you make an ass out of yourself".  Goodbye coach.

Three silly ejections that came out of nowhere.

[Jimurray]

EJECTION #1 - My partner had the ejection, but it was well deserved.  Batter in the box R2, RH pitcher.  Pitcher comes set and then starts his pitch.  Batter holds his hand up but does not verbalize time or ask for it and then quickly puts it back down.  Pitcher stops his motion.  Balk is called.  Runner advances to third.  Coach tells his pitcher to just follow through with the pitch.  I know that the batter cannot cause a balk, but it was determined that his action was not sufficient to cause the balk as he did not verbalize time or step out of the box.  In retrospect I think I should have waived the balk off, but I didn't at the time.  A few pitches later the same thing happens except this time the batter verbalizes "time" and steps out of the box.  I call "time" and state "no balk, batter actions caused the pitcher to react".  In the meantime R3 starts to break for home.  DC yells at his pitcher about it and R3 heads back to 3rd.  Pitcher throws to third and he is tagged out.  I immediately say "no play ball is dead, time was called".  DC yells that I can't call time while the ball is in play and that since it wasn't a balk there was no reason to call time. I correct him but to no avail.  After a short time he finally goes back to his dugout.  Next batter hits a gapper to score the go ahead run and comes out of the dugout yelling that we cost his team the game.  My partner gives him a warning then runs him.  How can a coach really think that the ball is still live when a pitcher committed a balk, but the infraction was waived off due to the actions of the batter?

EJECTION #2 - 14U AAA game.  Very competitive, teams don't like each other much.  HT is up 4-3 bottom of 6.  One out R2 and R3.  Batter lifts a fly ball to CF.  Catch is made and both runners tag.  I have a play coming into home and R2 is going to third.  I know I have a timing play as they have no shot at R3.  So I'm slightly up the line to get a good angle to have a clear view of R3 coming home and can still see the timing of R2 coming into third.as I see R2 begin his slide I turn and look at home and see R3 about 3 feet from the plate.  I then turn to my partner see what his call is.  He calls out.  I point to HP and verbalize "run does not count".  Third base coach (also head coach) comes running at me screaming at me that I was not even watching the play.  I sternly told him that I was looking right at the play and called it correctly and then quickly ejected him.  Or rather confirmed his ejection of himself.  The true ejection happened as he was maniacally running at me and screaming.  I'm not perfect, but when I do everything right, as I was trained, and am 100% certain that I got the call correct and they come running out like that it really pisses me off.  Because he was so convincing that his fans were chirping about it to.

EJECTION #3 - I'm on the dish and on the second pitch a ball comes in low and away.  Batter squares to bunt and looks like he begins to offer but then pulls back, F2 moves blocking my view.  I don't have enough to say he clearly offered at the pitch so I verbalize ball.  F2 asks me to appeal to my partner at first so I do and he strikes it.  Count gets to 2-2 and then the next pitch is a ball making it full.  Batter drops his bat and heads towards first.  I return him stating that it's three balls.  He looks incredulous.  So I tell him that the bunt was judged an attempt and therefore that ball was changed to a strike.  Third base coach (HC) asks for an explanation.  I explain that "I assume your batter didn't realize or forgot about the appeal on the bunt attempt".  Coach says "so you assumed the count".  I try to say no I assumed your batter didn't know the count for the reason I mentioned.  He says "Well when you assume you make an ass out of yourself".  Goodbye coach.

Three silly ejections that came out of nowhere.

#1, In retrospect you are probably right that you should have not balked the first instance. OBR changed the wording for just such an occurence:

"If after the pitcher starts his windup or comes to a “set position” with a runner on, he does not
go through with his pitch because the batter has inadvertently caused the pitcher to interrupt his delivery,
it shall not be called a balk. Both the pitcher and batter have violated a rule and the umpire shall
call time and both the batter and pitcher start over from “scratch.”"

[grayhawk]

Agree with @Jimurray on #1.

On #2, you should not be "up the line." You should be 3BLX to line up the touch of the plate with the tag on R2 coming into third. You should not have to turn your head.

On #3, when your partner changes the ball to a strike, you should say, "Then that's a strike. The count is 2-2." This prevents any confusion if the batter didn't see/hear your partner.

The ejections all sound correct.

Edited July 29, 2015 by grayhawk

[BRUMP]

all 3 were proper ejections, but all 3 also could have been avoided

[lawump]

Agree with @Jimurray on #1.

On #2, you should not be "up the line." You should be 3BLX to line up the touch of the plate with the tag on R2 coming into third. You should not have to turn your head.

 

+1

[Kevin_K]

All three seem like they could have easily been avoided. All three are direct reactions to what the umpire(s) did or do not do.

@Jimurray is correct with #1 as is @grayhawk on number #2 with their suggestions on mechanics.

As far as #3 is concerned, it seems that your words "I assume your batter didn't realize or forgot about the appeal on the bunt attempt".only aggravated the 3BC. This might be a case where less is more. Perhaps "I had the count at 2-2." or giving the count to everyone following the appeal call might have been more effective. 

While the reactions of the coaches are not acceptable and eject-able, I see opportunities for other umpire actions that would likely avert the escalation any of these situations.

[umpire_scott]

Agree with @Jimurray on #1.

On #2, you should not be "up the line." You should be 3BLX to line up the touch of the plate with the tag on R2 coming into third. You should not have to turn your head.

On #3, when your partner changes the ball to a strike, you should say, "Then that's a strike. The count is 2-2." This prevents any confusion if the batter didn't see/hear your partner.

The ejections all sound correct.

What do you mean by 3BLX as opposed to "slightly up the line"?  I was about 3-5 up the line towards third base and 3-5 feet away from the line towards the fence.  I felt that I had the best possible angle to see both.  Should I have been directly in line with the first base line, but a few feet towards the fence?

Oh wait when you say 3BLX you mean I should have been on the other side of the LH batter's box?

All three seem like they could have easily been avoided. All three are direct reactions to what the umpire(s) did or do not do.

@Jimurray is correct with #1 as is @grayhawk on number #2 with their suggestions on mechanics.

As far as #3 is concerned, it seems that your words "I assume your batter didn't realize or forgot about the appeal on the bunt attempt".only aggravated the 3BC. This might be a case where less is more. Perhaps "I had the count at 2-2." or giving the count to everyone following the appeal call might have been more effective. 

While the reactions of the coaches are not acceptable and eject-able, I see opportunities for other umpire actions that would likely avert the escalation any of these situations.

Disagree that all three could have been easily avoided.  In #1 even if I didn't balk the first instance that does not change the fact that on the second one the dipSH*# coach wanted an out after his pitcher balked and I waived it off due the batter influencing it.  He stated that I could not call time if it was not an actual balk.  Once that out was not allowed he was completely unruly, The only way he does not get tossed is if he gets out of the inning unscathed, which we had nothing to do with.

As for #2 regardless of where I was I saw the play.  The coach never questioned my position.  He said I was not looking at home plate which was patently false.  Don't see how this ejection could have been avoided.

As for #3 it was a weird situation.  I mentioned the count at least twice after the appeal.  I do not know why they had it wrong.  No one else did.  If me explaining why I think his batter may have missed the count aggravates him then he has a problem.  Which was evident as a player in the next half inning when coming to bat said "our coach is a real idiot.  He gets ejected for stuff like that all the time".  Honestly it was somewhat of a tame response to eject someone.  He didn't yell it or anything, but as it was personal ". . . you made an ass out of yourself" I sort of felt obligated to eject him.

Edited July 30, 2015 by umpire_scott
added text for clarification

[NovaScotiaBlue]

Scott,(Is it OK if I call you Scott??) By him saying,"you were not looking at the play",it sounds like the coaches was questioning your position in sitch #2
As others have offered, you need to keep everything in front of you for a time play. Again as others have said, 3BLX is the
best place to be as you are able to see the play at 3rd and the runner touching home without having to turn your head. 
As for sitch #3 when discussing things with a coach, it maybe best not to offer opinions about what others may or may not be thinking and stick to the facts 
What you don't say cannot be used against you.

[urout17]

Scott, I know this picture isn't your situation but this is the best place to be to see a timing play (runner scoring and a play at third).  I'm just asking but you mentioned you were taught to walk up the third base line?  I wonder what the reasoning is?  And, seriously, I'm not being a smartass.

[grayhawk]

Scott, I know this picture isn't your situation but this is the best place to be to see a timing play (runner scoring and a play at third).  I'm just asking but you mentioned you were taught to walk up the third base line?  I wonder what the reasoning is?  And, seriously, I'm not being a smartass.

For a time play at third base, you would want to be a step to the left of where PU is here, which would put him at 3BLX.  If the time play is at second base, then POP is the proper position.  It's a simple mechanic - just line up the plate with where the play on the bases is being made so it's all in a direct line in front of you.

[Kevin_K]

Disagree that all three could have been easily avoided.  

Every response offered to your post presents suggestions about how to handle the situations differently than the OP indicates. Five of the six responding posts specifically addressed umpire actions/mechanics and were not personal attacks. The sixth agreed with another. No one made an argument that the offenders should have remained in the game following their actions. 

Whenever I have something blow up on me on the field (or in life for that matter), I try to see what I could have done to make the situation end more favorably than it did. Reflection is a powerful tool to improve whatever one pursues. While I cannot speak for others,  my suggestion is simply that..... a suggestion. 

As I believe I have mentioned before, when you might disagree with suggestions being offered, it is often better to say thank you, ignore the advice, and keep doing what you will.

[BillKen]

What do you mean by 3BLX as opposed to "slightly up the line"?  I was about 3-5 up the line towards third base and 3-5 feet away from the line towards the fence.  I felt that I had the best possible angle to see both.  Should I have been directly in line with the first base line, but a few feet towards the fence?

Oh wait when you say 3BLX you mean I should have been on the other side of the LH batter's box?

Disagree that all three could have been easily avoided.  In #1 even if I didn't balk the first instance that does not change the fact that on the second one the dipSH*# coach wanted an out after his pitcher balked and I waived it off due the batter influencing it.  He stated that I could not call time if it was not an actual balk.  Once that out was not allowed he was completely unruly, The only way he does not get tossed is if he gets out of the inning unscathed, which we had nothing to do with.

As for #2 regardless of where I was I saw the play.  The coach never questioned my position.  He said I was not looking at home plate which was patently false.  Don't see how this ejection could have been avoided.

As for #3 it was a weird situation.  I mentioned the count at least twice after the appeal.  I do not know why they had it wrong.  No one else did.  If me explaining why I think his batter may have missed the count aggravates him then he has a problem.  Which was evident as a player in the next half inning when coming to bat said "our coach is a real idiot.  He gets ejected for stuff like that all the time".  Honestly it was somewhat of a tame response to eject someone.  He didn't yell it or anything, but as it was personal ". . . you made an ass out of yourself" I sort of felt obligated to eject him.

This goes along with what Kevin said here.  You came on here to tell us your story.  You didn't really ask for suggestions or attaboys....but such is the nature of this group.  We are all big fans of umpires.  We all care enough to interact with total strangers of all experience levels so that we end up with a product that looks somewhat similar "From the lakes of Minnesota, to the hills of Tennessee, across the plains of Texas, from sea to shining sea...  We want umpires to be great all over the nation.

When guys offer you feedback, it is on you as to how you receive that.  I think everyone was very congenial to you with their offerings for the most part, I didn't see any personal shots at you.  Now just like when you go to the doctor and get a prescription, it is up to you to follow the dosage and actually swallow the pill.  If you don't like the doctor's diagnosis or treatment, you can go home and try your grandma's Hot Toddy recipe (and continue to be sick but since you're drunk it seems better), or you can suck it up and take the medicine even though you don't like it.

The same thing happens here.  The veterans who care enough to read all of the stuff that comes into this board are doctors with a lot of experience.  They've seen a few ailing umpires...and been sick themselves on plenty of occasions.  You are more than welcome to disagree with them when they tell you that you made mistakes and could have prevented these ejections.  I had a HS football coach tell me when I was a kid that "The minute you make an excuse, you forfeit your ability to learn."  That has stuck with me for over 30 years.  We all screw up.  And the worst thing that a student can say is, "Yeah, but...."  

You are going to be faced with other situations where you might want to come to this resource for some learnin'.  How eager are people going to be to help you when you are the "Yeah but" guy?  This is friendly advice and you can take it or leave it, but you have a choice.  You can take the medicine or not...but arguing with the doctors is not a good option.

[Majordave]

@umpire_scott

@BillKen and @Kevin_K

both just gave you (and all of us who read what they wrote) some of the best advice you're ever going to receive in life, not just umpiring. 

My advice is that you take their advice. Or not, keep doing what you're doing if you're good with that. 

[Replacematt]

Some things never change.

[catsbackr]

Scott,

 

I don't care about #1.

 

#2, you were out of position if you had to look back at the plate to make the call.  If you're in the proper position, 3BLX, the coach would have zero argument.

 

#3, if you announced the count after the appeal, forget about it.  What happens, happens.  If the coach says what he said, dump him.\

 

P.S.  Don't be quite so wordy in your interactions with coaches.  Tell them what you've got, tell them you're done talking about  it and move on with or without them, their choice.

[umpire_scott]

i took all the advice and even clarified with Grayhawk what he meant exactly by 3BLX.  I have always called plays at the plate from just outside the RH batters box.  I've seen pros call that tag at the plate from 1st base side and I've heard reasoning that you get a much better view of a swipe tag.  Fifteen years ago when I started umpiring that was not the mechanic I was taught.  I was always taught and/or it is just where I've felt comfortable to be similar position to where the umpire was in the picture, but on the other side.  What Grayhawk said makes total sense and I never disputed that advice.

The singular sentence that I disputed was the contention that all three ejections could have been "easily avoided" and that all three were "directly related to what the umpire did or did not do".

I admitted in sitch #1 that I probably should have waived off the first balk.  But once again the situation that occurred after that was not related to the first balk,  The coach was under the impression that unless I enforced the balk I could not kill the play.  I tried to explain this to him.  He wanted the out at third base because he was under the impression that I had no right to call time when the runner was off the base, unless I called an enforceable balk.  The story was about a coach that was irate because he wanted a balk to happen, but be waived off and time to never be called.

In sitch #2 the coach never said a word about where I was positioned.  He stated that I was not looking at the play, which I was.  There are times when we cannot line every play up and we have to look at out first priority and keep our peripheral vision on our second priority.  He claimed that I never looked at home plate.  Which was patently false.  I guess it is possible that if I were on the other side of the plate he may not have made that argument.  But I doubt it with the way he came unglued.  I will attempt to break my bad habit of calling plays at the plate from the third base side of home plate.  As I definitely see the positives of that.

In sitch #3 I understand not giving too much information, but the only reason I could understand why the kid didn't know the count is that he was not listening to me announce it and was keeping it in his head and forget about the changed call on the appeal.  Sometimes we give completely innocuous responses and it just blows up because of the personality of the coach.  I could probably say the same exact thing 100 different times and none of the would result in an ejection.  I was not abrasive or confrontational at all. The story was not about what I could have done differently it was about how much the coach overreacted. 

I never indicated I did not think there were things I should have done differently.  I only disagreed that the ejections were easily avoidable.

[ricka56]

I was not one who claimed any/all of your ejections were avoidable, but let me suggest that perhaps you might have been able to disengage from the argument and avoid the EJ. By disengaging "Skip, you are free to disagree, but we're going back to baseball now"... leave him and head back to your position.

Many umpires will hold their ground and make a HC come to his position to have this "discussion". They say that if you go towards the HC, it looks like you're being aggressive and instigating the EJ that follows. But when a call explanation is warranted, I move some towards the on-coming HC, so that I have a place to return to (disengage from the "discussion") once the "discussion" is over.

If HC follows and continues to argument, well, I've given him his chance to disengage and he gets what he gets. More times than not, they won't follow. If they instead head back, then you've effectively handled the sitch. But the longer we allow the "discussion" to continue, the greater the chance that an EJ will occur.

When you've had enough of the discussion, end it and disengage to reduce the chance of an EJ.

[RichMSN]

The only thing I'll add is this - what you were taught 15 years ago about taking plays at the plate is irrelevant today. If you're still taking plays behind the RH batter's box you're well behind the times. If I'm evaluating and see that, I don't have to see much more - you're simply not a well trained umpire. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TheRockawayKid]

 

In sitch #2 the coach never said a word about where I was positioned.  He stated that I was not looking at the play, which I was.  There are times when we cannot line every play up and we have to look at out first priority and keep our peripheral vision on our second priority.  He claimed that I never looked at home plate.  Which was patently false.  I guess it is possible that if I were on the other side of the plate he may not have made that argument.  But I doubt it with the way he came unglued.  I will attempt to break my bad habit of calling plays at the plate from the third base side of home plate.  As I definitely see the positives of that.

If you're between the plate and the play, and if you can't line it up, you're not looking at the play. Yes, you're making your best guess, but there's no way you can be absolutely sure of the timing play. 

This may be of the line of "verbal judo" that gets promoted here (though I've never read it), but understand that the coach here is mad for a very good reason.. from his perspective, he doesn't believe you can see both at the same time, because eyes. So I think that you need to find a way to calm him down in this case. 

[umpire_scott]

I was not one who claimed any/all of your ejections were avoidable, but let me suggest that perhaps you might have been able to disengage from the argument and avoid the EJ. By disengaging "Skip, you are free to disagree, but we're going back to baseball now"... leave him and head back to your position.

Many umpires will hold their ground and make a HC come to his position to have this "discussion". They say that if you go towards the HC, it looks like you're being aggressive and instigating the EJ that follows. But when a call explanation is warranted, I move some towards the on-coming HC, so that I have a place to return to (disengage from the "discussion") once the "discussion" is over.

If HC follows and continues to argument, well, I've given him his chance to disengage and he gets what he gets. More times than not, they won't follow. If they instead head back, then you've effectively handled the sitch. But the longer we allow the "discussion" to continue, the greater the chance that an EJ will occur.

When you've had enough of the discussion, end it and disengage to reduce the chance of ejection

For whatever reason the site would not let me reply outside of the this quote box.  If the play was close then I do agree he would have had a legit beef.  But it was not.  Initially I expected the play to be at the plate so I was looking at HP to see a potential tag.  The throw instead went to third.  I did not take my eyes off the plate but noticed third out of the corner of my eye.  When I saw the runner sliding into third and a tag attempt being made I was looking at HP and the runner was not even into the RH batters box yet.  So I made the mental note that if the runner on third is out the run will not count.  I then looked at my partner to see what call he had at third.  As soon as he signaled out I pointed to HP and verbalized "run does not count".  The coaching came charging at me stating I was not looking at home plate.  He stated my responsibility was the call at HP, not third base. 

Obviously in the future I will position myself properly, but I truly don't think this coach had any idea where I should have been.  And to be honest with you about 5% of the guys I umpire with unfortunately, have I ever seen call a play at home from 3BLX.

[Replacematt]

 I truly don't think this coach had any idea where I should have been.

However, he was right, and it doesn't matter why. You weren't where you should have been.

[umpire_scott]

However, he was right, and it doesn't matter why. You weren't where you should have been.

No he wasn't right.  He said I was not looking at home plate. I know you are smart enough to read.  I've stated I should have been in a different position. To this point I thought that the side of the plate you called from on a play at the plate was personal preference.  Now I know differently and will attempt to make that my practiced mechanic.  Why do some of you find it so necessary to ridicule anyone with a backbone that does not cower down to your every word?  As I've stated on here before I get a lot of great information on here which is why I keep coming back.  But the attitude some of you present drives many umpires away.  That cannot possibly be good for the board or for umpiring.

It can't be that hard to not be an a-hole.

[Replacematt]

There's a difference between having a backbone and being stubborn. You have shown time and again that you are exemplary of the latter. Multiple boards, multiple people have tried to teach you of how to do this properly. Yet it's the rest of us, not you, that is the problem. Given the OP, your immaturity and inability to handle criticism is also exhibited on the field. Not one person has said anything out of line to you. 

Edited August 3, 2015 by Matt

[timmybloops]

the key is to stop thinking about this play as a play at the plate.  You state you knew it was a time play because they had no shot at R3.  

therefore, get into position for the play - 3BLX where you can see home an third in the same eyeshot.  Should have plenty of time to get there after recognizing the throw to third, and if not, at least take a few steps back to get more of the field in your view.  The coach will see you getting into position and looking at the right places and won't have an argument (unless he just thinks it was a blown judgment).

Also the mechanic should be to wash out the run emphatically.  Pointing at the plate is the mechanic to score the run.

[scrounge]

Yep....the more things change, the more they stay the same.