Crazy Coach

[tankmjg24]

I am currently between seasons (the spring season and summer season that is) and have had some free time on my hands.  I have spent this time going through youtube watching all types of baseball.  This is one video that sticks out to me.  How in the world does the coach not get ejected here.  The title says high school baseball, am I missing something here as there is no way I do not eject here (or at least restrict).  Situation occurs in the first part of the video.   

 

 

 

[renegadewolf]

Had to turn off the volume listening to the abject stupidity of the people in the crowd.....  Why on gods green earth U2 kept his arm in the air while coach was screaming at him, but i digress.  A coach who comes running out like that and screaming the whole while is going to get a very short rope, maybe he somehow managed to get his point across without crossing a line, but I have my doubts.  For what I do (OBR) that's likely an easy toss, but I am not overly familiar with FED rules, so I will leave it to those how are better in the know

[HuskerUmp22]

I cannot tell whether he was safe or out, but it looked like the BR leaped so it may have been the right call. It did look like he called the play too fast. 

Now as far as the coach ... he should have been tossed immediately. I mean no question. Can anybody explain what the umpire was doing with his right hand up the whole time? 

 

[ElkOil]

My guess is the ump was flustered, which is why he didn't toss the coach and kept his hand in the air.  His positioning on those calls needed improvement and he was too quick.  I wonder if he was new or just not very good.

[BuckeyeMike]

In FED, they really want us to restrict them to the dugout first, THEN eject.   I'm not saying a straight up EJ isn't the right call here, but "they" want us to restrict them first.

Why was BU in a deep C with what appears to be no runner on 2nd?   And he didn't move much AT ALL toward 1B....definitely didn't gain the working area.     Super quick call too.   I need to process that for a split second longer if that's me.

Of course, the hand up.....wtf?   And a final "BULLS$%T" from the coach as he's leaving?   whoa.   Oh, and the kicking of the dirt at 3B which wasn't detected. 

This guy might just be gone immediately with no restriction.   I don't know.

 

 

 

[blue23ll]

FED does not mandate that we have to restrict before we eject. What we do is dependent on the severity of the behavior. I do believe that leaving the coaching box and coming onto the field to argue a judgement call is severe enough to warrant an ejection, and that is what I would do in this this situation.

[BuckeyeMike]

Right, I kind of agree.  I didn't say "mandates", I said they REALLY WANT us to.....they desire that we try to restrict first. 

I'll add that simply leaving the coach box and coming onto the field to argue a call is very dependent on the manner in which the coach conducts himself, not on the act itself.  Ex....if he jogs out and asks (rather than yells), I'm not EJ'ing here.

I know I'm probably splitting hairs with you here, and I don't mean to be argumentative, but I was never saying that you must restrict first.   

And we agree that what we do is dependent on the severity of the behavior.

[UMP45]

You hear the coach say bullSH*# ,on the field, and horseSH*# from the coaches box. And he's still there? Wow!

[TheRockawayKid]

In FED, they really want us to restrict them to the dugout first, THEN eject.   I'm not saying a straight up EJ isn't the right call here, but "they" want us to restrict them first.

Why was BU in a deep C with what appears to be no runner on 2nd?   And he didn't move much AT ALL toward 1B....definitely didn't gain the working area.     Super quick call too.   I need to process that for a split second longer if that's me.

Of course, the hand up.....wtf?   And a final "BULLS$%T" from the coach as he's leaving?   whoa.   Oh, and the kicking of the dirt at 3B which wasn't detected. 

This guy might just be gone immediately with no restriction.   I don't know.

 

 

 

​You have the OPTION to restrict in these situations. The only times a restriction is mandatory is illegal equipment, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong). Otherwise, you cant toss if they're being unsportsmanlike. And screaming "that's horse---" is certainly unsportsmanlike, especially if this is a varsity game. 

[noumpere]

​You have the OPTION to restrict in these situations. The only times a restriction is mandatory is illegal equipment, I believe (correct me if I'm wrong). Otherwise, you cant toss if they're being unsportsmanlike. And screaming "that's horse---" is certainly unsportsmanlike, especially if this is a varsity game. 

​That's (at least substantially) true by rule but many states / areas /organizations want the umpire to try really hard to restrict first.

[bluejerred]

This looks like a great video to do a poll question @tankmjg24.  Eject, restrict, or hold your hand up in B.

Edited May 30, 2015 by bluejerred

[Umpirechick1]

That would never be tolerated in our HS games here. He charges into the field without requesting time? Cussing? He'd get a warning for charging, then dumped for the cussing. 

As for the umpire, he's not in a good position and he makes the call too quick. The right hand? No clue. But he has no authority on the field. 

[blue23ll]

Fed Case book has a situation like this one. Not sure if the coach from the 3rd base box is the HC or an assistant. 

3.3.1 SITUATION Q: With a base runner on first and following an attempted steal, the assistant coach for Team A who is coaching first, leaves the coaching box and charges onto the field to talk to the base umpire in a two-person crew arguing that the runner was safe on the steal attempt. RULING: The assistant coach who was coaching first, and the head coach are now restricted to the dugout for the remainder of the game. If the conduct of either coach were of such gravity to violate Rule 3-3-1g in other parts, the coach( es) could be ejected.

  (2014-11-12). 2015 NFHS Baseball Case Book (Kindle Locations 712-716). NFHS. Kindle Edition. 

[noumpere]

. The right hand?

​It's surprisingly common, in baseball and basketball, to leave the hand up after calling time (or a foul) when it's followed immediately by a conversation.

 

It shouldn't be, but it is.

[blue23ll]

I agree its surprising but not about it being common, as I have never seen that done before. 

[lawump]

He absolutely has to go when he kicks the dirt all over the place at third base on his way back to the coach's box.

[MikeSafari]

Looks like a pretty easy ejection for me, but my bigger question is: is that a typical high school field in the US? Damn that's nice!

[BillKen]

Nothing about that situation told me that the official was in charge of that game.

1.  Stop the charge...use the voice and a stop sign to get the coach to stop charging out.

2.  Put your hand down and engage the coach...ask him a question...don't just argue back (no he didn't).

3.  Turn the coach toward the crowd and start walking him back toward his box and demand that he put his arms down and calm down.  This is an extension of the classroom and we will respect one another.

4.  Stay with him until he gets going on his own...you have to get him calmed down before he gets to the dirt to kick it...and if he does kick it, you have to restrict at that point for sure.

5.  The next situation doesn't get better unless you are in control.  I'd allow the coach to have a little rope...that's a big call in a big game and we expect them to be emotional.  But we have to handle them and get them back on track.  Managing situations is what separates the good from the great.  This umpire is good...he got the call right.  He isn't great because he froze like a deer in the headlights with the coach.  This video is a great learning opportunity.  We have a lot of tools at our discretion...we don't just have to pull out the big gun and hit him with an ejection if we know how to take charge quickly.  

[coachump4]

This play reminds me of a call I had in the last week of the regular season.  I was inside had a play at second and rang the kid out.  The coach, who is well known for always running his mouth, comes running out of the dugout screaming he has to tag him with the ball.  I informed him he had the ball and the kid was out.  That didn't satisfy him as he had stepped onto the field at this point and kept saying he didn't have the ball.  I walked toward him told him it was a judgement call and he wasn't arguing that I then told him he didn't ask for time and I didn't grant him time and to get off my field.  So he steps into fair territory and says I am off and I respond with lets play ball.  Never heard another word out of him.

[MPLSMatt]

Nothing about that situation told me that the official was in charge of that game.

1.  Stop the charge...use the voice and a stop sign to get the coach to stop charging out.

2.  Put your hand down and engage the coach...ask him a question...don't just argue back (no he didn't).

3.  Turn the coach toward the crowd and start walking him back toward his box and demand that he put his arms down and calm down.  This is an extension of the classroom and we will respect one another.

4.  Stay with him until he gets going on his own...you have to get him calmed down before he gets to the dirt to kick it...and if he does kick it, you have to restrict at that point for sure.

5.  The next situation doesn't get better unless you are in control.  I'd allow the coach to have a little rope...that's a big call in a big game and we expect them to be emotional.  But we have to handle them and get them back on track.  Managing situations is what separates the good from the great.  This umpire is good...he got the call right.  He isn't great because he froze like a deer in the headlights with the coach.  This video is a great learning opportunity.  We have a lot of tools at our discretion...we don't just have to pull out the big gun and hit him with an ejection if we know how to take charge quickly.  

​I respectfully disagree with this.  Why work so hard to keep this guy in the game?  In a scholastic activity there is no place for that kind of conduct and he has to go.  Pro or even college ball, these are great tips but for FED I just can't think of any reason to keep this guy around. 

 

[BillKen]

I think FED is more interested in being sure the coach stays in the game...he is a teacher first.  I agree that he shouldn't behave in a way that would put his livelihood in danger, but I also think that part of my job is to help him keep from crossing that line if he will let me help him.  I give a lot more leeway to a coach in a FED game than in a college or wood bat league.  

[noumpere]

I think part of the disconnect in the past few posts is that some are saying to EJ after the coach blows up, and Bill is trying to recognize that the coach might blow up and prevent that from happening.

[alan2703]

I would have to eject cussing me warrents it, respectful argument no ejection. Watched the rest of the feed loved the dog think it belong to the batter.

[catsbackr]

This play reminds me of a call I had in the last week of the regular season.  I was inside had a play at second and rang the kid out.  The coach, who is well known for always running his mouth, comes running out of the dugout screaming he has to tag him with the ball.  I informed him he had the ball and the kid was out.  That didn't satisfy him as he had stepped onto the field at this point and kept saying he didn't have the ball.  I walked toward him told him it was a judgement call and he wasn't arguing that I then told him he didn't ask for time and I didn't grant him time and to get off my field.  So he steps into fair territory and says I am off and I respond with lets play ball.  Never heard another word out of him.

​If I was a coach and you said this to me, you'd have to dump me.

[Ump29]

Can't really see but there may have been a runner at 2 ... thus his positioning ?