Bat Rolling

[Guest Parent]

I don't want to seem like a complainer because we lost the game, but a parent bragged about how his daughter's softball bat was rolled.  The entire team used it and the ball was jumping off the bat.  They aren't a very good team and the ball was flying over our outfielders' heads.  The guy who rolled it even bragged about rolling it and has a local bat rolling business.  The bat is even in a pic on his company facebook page next to the rolling machine.  

 

Someone is going to get hurt.  We don't want a win from it or anything.  We just want the bat removed.  We won't play them again, but we want the bat removed.  What do we do?

 

I am from Tennessee if that matters.  Is it illegal?

[Blueump]

It is cheating and illegal.

Not much a parent can do except contact the school's AD or the state association, but by now it's all hearsay. It would have had to have been do scovered by the umpires during the game, in which case they would have ejected both the player using it and the coach.

[gnhbua93]

It is cheating and illegal.

Not much a parent can do except contact the school's AD or the state association, but by now it's all hearsay. It would have had to have been do scovered by the umpires during the game, in which case they would have ejected both the player using it and the coach.

 

Remember the OP is softball not baseball.

[Thunderheads]

I don't want to seem like a complainer because we lost the game, but a parent bragged about how his daughter's softball bat was rolled.  The entire team used it and the ball was jumping off the bat.  They aren't a very good team and the ball was flying over our outfielders' heads.  The guy who rolled it even bragged about rolling it and has a local bat rolling business.  The bat is even in a pic on his company facebook page next to the rolling machine.  

 

Someone is going to get hurt.  We don't want a win from it or anything.  We just want the bat removed.  We won't play them again, but we want the bat removed.  What do we do?

 

I am from Tennessee if that matters.  Is it illegal?

It is illegal, and the person doing it knows it ......   Personally, I'd report it, but that's me.

[Cav]

I believe there is some real legalities involved in modifying a non-wood bat. 

[Tksjewelry]

You can ask the director of your league to test the bat. There is a portable bat tester that pressure tests the bat. If it's hot, it will definitely pick it up.

[Majordave]

The first place to look is the ruleset you are playing under. Is this youth or high school? Fastpitch or slow pitch?

A quick web search, without reading all the links provided, yields a significant number of bat rolling services and "how-to" videos.

So, what initially sounds like cheating may, in fact, be perfectly legal and encouraged in some places at some levels. I find that hard to believe but nothing about criminal legality surfaced in a short five minute search and survey.

[Guest Parent]

Here is a pic of the bat and the roller.  It is from a businesses facebook page and shows the very bat that the team was using.  The umpire looked at it and said it was legal because it had the markings saying it was legal.

 

https://scontent-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t34.0-12/1964490_405099979634672_1362206622_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibyJ9&oh=a1afb3dccc4554d2e8ffdb8385873e19&oe=552FAEB9

[Guest Parent]

It is fast pitch NFHS rules

[LMSANS]

Bat rolling is illegal in NFHS and ASA.

Larry Sansevere

sent from my phone

[Majordave]

Contact Bernard Childress, Exec. Dir. Of TSSAA.

bchildress@tssaa.org I think he might be interested in your issue. Do not do it anonymously. They rarely act in anonymous tips. Include the schools, date of game, coaches names if you know etc.

I couldn't find an NFHS rulebook for softball online without paying for it.

Softball umpires....anyone......anyone?

[ALStripes17]

Bat manufacturers have stated that charges will be pressed against those that tamper or alter their bats. This kind of dangerous tampering changes the presentation of a company's bat (and they definitely don't want their logo associated with some big lawsuit.

We have seen it in men's slow pitch numerous times where a pitcher gets hit and has pressed charges due to the 'hot' bat being protested and found to be illegal due to rolling or shaving.

Bats are held to standards in regards to testing and altering the bat in a way that affects this testing standard (other than normal wear and tear) is illegal.

[kylehutson]

This is the entirety of Rule 1 Section 5 "Bats" of the NFHS softball rule book:

 

--

ART. 1 . . . The bat shall:

 

a. Be one piece, multi-pieces and permanently assembled, or two pieces with interchangeable barrel construction.

 

b. Not have exposed rivets, pins, rough or sharp edges or any form of exterior fastener that would present a hazard.

 

c. Be free of rattles, dents, burrs, cracks and sharp edges. Bats that are broken, altered or that deface the ball are illegal. Materials inside the bat or treatments/devices used to alter the bat specifications and/or enhance performance (e.g., shaving, rolling or artificially warming the bat barrel) are prohibited and render the bat illegal.

 

d. Meet the 2004 ASA Bat Performance Standard, bear either the 2000 or 2004 certification mark (see the "Figure") and not be listed on the ASA non-approved bat list as found on www.asasoftball.com. Bat barrels made entirely of wood are permitted and need not bear an ASA mark, but shall not exceed 2¼ inches in diameter.

 

ART. 2 . . . The bat shall consist of the following components (see the "Figure"):

 

a. Knob. The knob may be molded, lathed, welded or permanently fastened. Devices, attachments or wrappings that cause the knob to become flush with the handle are permitted. The knob may be covered with grip tape. A 
one-piece rubber knob and bat grip combination is illegal.

 

b. Handle/Grip. The bat handle is the area of the bat that begins at, but does not include the knob and ends where the taper begins to increase in diameter. The handle shall have a round or oval cross-section. The grip shall extend a minimum of 10 inches, but not more than 15 inches, from the small end of the bat. A safety grip shall be made of cork, tape (no smooth, plastic tape) or composition material (commercially manufactured). Resin, pine tar or spray substances to enhance the hold are permitted on the grip only.

 

c. Taper. The taper is the transition area which connects the narrower handle to the wider barrel portion of the bat. The taper shall have a solid surface and shall have a conical shape. Its length and material may vary.

 

d. Barrel. The barrel is the area intended for contact with the pitch; the barrel shall be round cylindrically symmetric with a smooth contour.

 

e. End Cap. The end cap is made of rubber, vinyl, plastic or other approved material. It shall be firmly secured and permanently affixed to the end of the bat so that it cannot be removed by anyone other than the manufacturer, without damaging or destroying it. A one-piece construction bat will not have an end cap.

 

ART. 3 . . . Warm-up bats used in the on-deck circle shall have all parts permanently and securely attached at the time of manufacture and at the time of use. No more than two bats shall be used when warming up in the on-deck circle. Devices added to a bat for warm-up purposes shall be commercially manufactured specifically for a softball bat and shall be securely attached, so as not to disengage during use. Such devices shall take, but not exceed, the general shape and size of a bat including the grip.

--

 

1(d) looks like the only relevant part and it doesn't say anything about altering the bat (though logic would dictate that it *should*).

 

This is the entirety of Rule 1 Section 5 "Bats" of the NFHS softball rule book:

 

--

ART. 1 . . . The bat shall:

 

a. Be one piece, multi-pieces and permanently assembled, or two pieces with interchangeable barrel construction.

 

b. Not have exposed rivets, pins, rough or sharp edges or any form of exterior fastener that would present a hazard.

 

c. Be free of rattles, dents, burrs, cracks and sharp edges. Bats that are broken, altered or that deface the ball are illegal. Materials inside the bat or treatments/devices used to alter the bat specifications and/or enhance performance (e.g., shaving, rolling or artificially warming the bat barrel) are prohibited and render the bat illegal.

 

d. Meet the 2004 ASA Bat Performance Standard, bear either the 2000 or 2004 certification mark (see the "Figure") and not be listed on the ASA non-approved bat list as found on www.asasoftball.com. Bat barrels made entirely of wood are permitted and need not bear an ASA mark, but shall not exceed 2¼ inches in diameter.

 

ART. 2 . . . The bat shall consist of the following components (see the "Figure"):

 

a. Knob. The knob may be molded, lathed, welded or permanently fastened. Devices, attachments or wrappings that cause the knob to become flush with the handle are permitted. The knob may be covered with grip tape. A 
one-piece rubber knob and bat grip combination is illegal.

 

b. Handle/Grip. The bat handle is the area of the bat that begins at, but does not include the knob and ends where the taper begins to increase in diameter. The handle shall have a round or oval cross-section. The grip shall extend a minimum of 10 inches, but not more than 15 inches, from the small end of the bat. A safety grip shall be made of cork, tape (no smooth, plastic tape) or composition material (commercially manufactured). Resin, pine tar or spray substances to enhance the hold are permitted on the grip only.

 

c. Taper. The taper is the transition area which connects the narrower handle to the wider barrel portion of the bat. The taper shall have a solid surface and shall have a conical shape. Its length and material may vary.

 

d. Barrel. The barrel is the area intended for contact with the pitch; the barrel shall be round cylindrically symmetric with a smooth contour.

 

e. End Cap. The end cap is made of rubber, vinyl, plastic or other approved material. It shall be firmly secured and permanently affixed to the end of the bat so that it cannot be removed by anyone other than the manufacturer, without damaging or destroying it. A one-piece construction bat will not have an end cap.

 

ART. 3 . . . Warm-up bats used in the on-deck circle shall have all parts permanently and securely attached at the time of manufacture and at the time of use. No more than two bats shall be used when warming up in the on-deck circle. Devices added to a bat for warm-up purposes shall be commercially manufactured specifically for a softball bat and shall be securely attached, so as not to disengage during use. Such devices shall take, but not exceed, the general shape and size of a bat including the grip.

--

 

1(d) looks like the only relevant part and it doesn't say anything about altering the bat (though logic would dictate that it *should*).

 

And as soon as I mention that, I see 1©, which specifically mentions "rolling".

[Guest Parent]

Does it mention the penalty for illegal bats?  I seem to recall baseball is an ejection of coach and player.

[ALStripes17]

Does it mention the penalty for illegal bats? I seem to recall baseball is an ejection of coach and player.

For FED baseball, the first discovery of a batter entering the box is the batter called out and head coach is restricted to the dugout. 2nd offense, the head coach is ejected (batter is still called out)

Players are not ejected in baseball for using illegal bats.

[roothog66]

Unfortunately, though, a rolled bat isn't easy to spot for an umpire. Unless, of course, there's a facebook photo of the bat on the rolling machine like the OP's.

[Guest Interesting]

Found this: http://old.nfhs.org/content.aspx?id=5449

[Stan W.]

I have held a rolled bat and inspected it.........I could not verify any outward tell sign that it had been altered either by marking or texture................if the person who handed me the bat would not have told me it had been rolled, there was no way I could have determined it....

[roothog66]

I have held a rolled bat and inspected it.........I could not verify any outward tell sign that it had been altered either by marking or texture................if the person who handed me the bat would not have told me it had been rolled, there was no way I could have determined it....

 

I personally never saw rolling as a real problem. Basically, all rolling does is evenly break in a composite bat so that it reaches the same condition that naturally would have taken several hundred at bats to reach. They were eventually going to become that "hot" anyway. However, with the BBCOR standard in place, the advantages of rolling have basically been taken away since bats are now required to be able to meet the BBCOR standards even after they are rolled. However, I do see how that is technically "altering" the bat. I never viewed it in the same light, however, as shaving a bat.

[Cav]

Somebody copy and past the Note at the end of baseball NFHS 1-3-2, please.

[Blueump]

 

Does it mention the penalty for illegal bats? I seem to recall baseball is an ejection of coach and player.

For FED baseball, the first discovery of a batter entering the box is the batter called out and head coach is restricted to the dugout. 2nd offense, the head coach is ejected (batter is still called out)

Players are not ejected in baseball for using illegal bats.

 

 

 

NFHS Softball rule 7.4.2 gives the penalty.  The ball is dead immediately upon its discovery.  All runners must return to their bases (TOP) unless they were put out on the play.  Batter and coach are both ejected...and yes, I knew the OP was about softball and not baseball when I first responded.  That had no bearing on my answer.

[Blueump]

Somebody copy and past the Note at the end of baseball NFHS 1-3-2, please.

 

"The NFHS has been advised that certain manufactures consider alteration, modification and 'doctoring' of their bats to be unlawful and subject to civil and, under certain circumstances, criminal action"

 

This is not noted in the Softball Rule Book.

[MPLSMatt]

I'd go to your state high school league.  There's almost no way for an umpire to spot this so the only way to take care of it is to go to the state high school league.  

[catsbackr]

I found it interesting in the OP that the poster complained of the team using the rolled bat, hitting balls over their outfielders heads.  Then, safety was brought into the equation.  LOL, sounds like you got beat and didn't like it to me!

[ZebraStripes]

The hot bat is hot because of more trampoline effect.  Safety of the pitcher would be a concern.  The compressed bats have reduced durability and can crack or break under use.  I've broken enough metal bats to know that I wouldn't want one coming at a player.  That softball pitcher is closer to that projectile when it comes apart.  

 

You find this funny?  

[Aging_Arbiter]

 

 

Does it mention the penalty for illegal bats? I seem to recall baseball is an ejection of coach and player.

For FED baseball, the first discovery of a batter entering the box is the batter called out and head coach is restricted to the dugout. 2nd offense, the head coach is ejected (batter is still called out)

Players are not ejected in baseball for using illegal bats.

 

 

 

NFHS Softball rule 7.4.2 gives the penalty.  The ball is dead immediately upon its discovery.  All runners must return to their bases (TOP) unless they were put out on the play.  Batter and coach are both ejected...and yes, I knew the OP was about softball and not baseball when I first responded.  That had no bearing on my answer.

 

 

I'm not sure if the rest of the NFHS world is required to recite the sprotsmanship code to coaches & captains at the plate meeting, but those in PA might recall running across the 4th sentence.  "Coaches, please certify to the officials that your team is uniformed and equipped according to NFHS rules & (your state assn here) PIAA adoptions.   Along with this and the penalty as outlined in the rulebook, I don't see where you can go wrong.