Baseball: Buena head coach Harry Grose 'feels bad' about 52-3 win

[th3]

Buena High School baseball head coach Harry Grose said his team was just trying to play baseball.

Grose had just completed practice Friday afternoon when he spoke with NJ Advance Media. It was likely a nice respite for Grose and his Chiefs in what has been a whirlwind of media attention since the moment the final out was made in Buena’s 52-3 win against Pleasantville on Thursday night.

“There’s a lot of people that want to know what happened,†Grose said. “A lot of newspapers, a lot of people, my boss.

 

 

Here's the story

 

(the quotes in the headline weren't mine)

[Tksjewelry]

Does HS not have a mercy rule?

[ElkOil]

Does HS not have a mercy rule?

 

It does -- 10 after five, so you have to wait for it to kick in.  There are also time rules -- ours are no new inning after two hours.  I umped a two-inning 30-0 affair earlier this year that ended on time.  The coach was doing everything he could to minimize the damage, but when one team is so bad, there's only so much you can do.

[StrikeDavis]

PA has 10 after 5 and 15 after 3.  The 15 after 3 would have certainly helped in this case.  After reading the article, I don't get the impression the coach was trying to run the score up.  If I was umpiring this game, I think at some point in the 20 run third I would have opened the zone up to include anything in the same zip code as the plate.

[th3]

jersey has no time limit and no 15 run rule. sounds like everybody did what they could - im sure the zone was wide

[scrounge]

Does Jersey not follow the NFHS rulebook? The game can be ended at any time by mutual agreement of both coaches, so I'm not buying his crying about not wanting to forfeit. Unless the other coach wouldn't agree....in which case, that dude deserves the beatdown.

[cp9]

Does Jersey not follow the NFHS rulebook? The game can be ended at any time by mutual agreement of both coaches, so I'm not buying his crying about not wanting to forfeit. Unless the other coach wouldn't agree....in which case, that dude deserves the beatdown.

If I remember correctly, the "mutual agreement" provision is a FED basketball rule.  No such language that I know of in the baseball rule book.

[scrounge]

 

Does Jersey not follow the NFHS rulebook? The game can be ended at any time by mutual agreement of both coaches, so I'm not buying his crying about not wanting to forfeit. Unless the other coach wouldn't agree....in which case, that dude deserves the beatdown.

If I remember correctly, the "mutual agreement" provision is a FED basketball rule.  No such language that I know of in the baseball rule book.

 

 

 

It's entirely possible NJ has disallowed this provision or created their own, but if not:

 

Rule 4, Section 2, ART. 4 . . . A state association may adopt game-ending procedures that determine how games are ended, including suspended games. However, if a state does not adopt game ending procedures, by mutual agreement of the opposing ­coaches and the umpire-in-chief, any remaining play may be shortened or the game terminated. If a state association has adopted game-ending procedures, only those game-ending procedures may be used, should the opposing coaches wish to terminate a game.

[cp9]

 

 

Does Jersey not follow the NFHS rulebook? The game can be ended at any time by mutual agreement of both coaches, so I'm not buying his crying about not wanting to forfeit. Unless the other coach wouldn't agree....in which case, that dude deserves the beatdown.

If I remember correctly, the "mutual agreement" provision is a FED basketball rule.  No such language that I know of in the baseball rule book.

 

 

 

It's entirely possible NJ has disallowed this provision or created their own, but if not:

 

Rule 4, Section 2, ART. 4 . . . A state association may adopt game-ending procedures that determine how games are ended, including suspended games. However, if a state does not adopt game ending procedures, by mutual agreement of the opposing ­coaches and the umpire-in-chief, any remaining play may be shortened or the game terminated. If a state association has adopted game-ending procedures, only those game-ending procedures may be used, should the opposing coaches wish to terminate a game.

 

You're right!  He deserved the beatdown!

[Richvee]

 

 

 

Does Jersey not follow the NFHS rulebook? The game can be ended at any time by mutual agreement of both coaches, so I'm not buying his crying about not wanting to forfeit. Unless the other coach wouldn't agree....in which case, that dude deserves the beatdown.

If I remember correctly, the "mutual agreement" provision is a FED basketball rule.  No such language that I know of in the baseball rule book.

 

 

 

It's entirely possible NJ has disallowed this provision or created their own, but if not:

 

Rule 4, Section 2, ART. 4 . . . A state association may adopt game-ending procedures that determine how games are ended, including suspended games. However, if a state does not adopt game ending procedures, by mutual agreement of the opposing ­coaches and the umpire-in-chief, any remaining play may be shortened or the game terminated. If a state association has adopted game-ending procedures, only those game-ending procedures may be used, should the opposing coaches wish to terminate a game.

 

You're right!  He deserved the beatdown!

 

Pretty clear in the rule that you can't stop a game by mutual agreement in NJ since NJ has game ending procedures... namely, 10 after 5 innings, That's a game ending procedure, therefore, according to the FED rule, "If a state association has adopted game-ending procedures, only those game-ending procedures may be used" 

[BuckeyeMike]

Right or wrong, I don't care if there's language in the rule book about ending games through mutual agreement......If it's this bad, I'm petitioning the coaches to end this when the differential is in the low 20's, be it the 3rd, 4th, etc innings.   In fact, it was encouraged during Legion ball by our association heads, and we did it.   Never had it this bad in a HS season game though.

[HokieUmp]

Regardless of the game-ending procedures business, this head coach could have told his guys, somewhere at that 20-30 run mark:  "Swing through every pitch.  Don't swing at something ridiculously away from the plate, but if it's decently close, swing and swing through.  Put the ball in play, and you'll run at the next practice until you pass out."

 

I mean, I'm sure the losing team probably couldn't play defense, or get the pitches in the zone.  But when the winning score passes about 20 to 23 runs, there's NO coach out there that can claim he did EVERYthing to get the game over with faster. 

 

Look, even if you're one of those saying "that's cheating the kids," then tell players:  "when you put the ball in play, you will not stop running until you're either put out or score.  Even on a ground ball."  Give the other team chances to tag the guy out on every basepath.  Besides, at that kind of score, you've hopefully emptied the bench and given every kid a chance (or 6) at the plate, so the stats issue is solved.

[scrounge]

 

 

 

 

Does Jersey not follow the NFHS rulebook? The game can be ended at any time by mutual agreement of both coaches, so I'm not buying his crying about not wanting to forfeit. Unless the other coach wouldn't agree....in which case, that dude deserves the beatdown.

If I remember correctly, the "mutual agreement" provision is a FED basketball rule.  No such language that I know of in the baseball rule book.

 

 

 

It's entirely possible NJ has disallowed this provision or created their own, but if not:

 

Rule 4, Section 2, ART. 4 . . . A state association may adopt game-ending procedures that determine how games are ended, including suspended games. However, if a state does not adopt game ending procedures, by mutual agreement of the opposing ­coaches and the umpire-in-chief, any remaining play may be shortened or the game terminated. If a state association has adopted game-ending procedures, only those game-ending procedures may be used, should the opposing coaches wish to terminate a game.

 

You're right!  He deserved the beatdown!

 

Pretty clear in the rule that you can't stop a game by mutual agreement in NJ since NJ has game ending procedures... namely, 10 after 5 innings, That's a game ending procedure, therefore, according to the FED rule, "If a state association has adopted game-ending procedures, only those game-ending procedures may be used" 

 

 

 

Oh absolutely, and you're obviously in better position to know NJ than me. We have the 10 after 5 in Ohio as well, but we also have retained the 'mutual agreement' provision. If both coaches agree, we can end the game at any time and the score/game stands.

[BillKen]

If you aren't bunting on every pitch, you aren't doing everything you can to keep the score down.  I will go to the winning coach and ask him, "Don't your kids need work on their bunting today?"  They usually give me that look like a lightbulb just went off in their head and nod!

 

I haven't yet had a team that couldn't field a bunt and get 3 outs in a reasonable amount of time...especially when they know it is coming!

[ElkOil]

Regardless of the game-ending procedures business, this head coach could have told his guys, somewhere at that 20-30 run mark:  "Swing through every pitch.  Don't swing at something ridiculously away from the plate, but if it's decently close, swing and swing through.  Put the ball in play, and you'll run at the next practice until you pass out."

 

I mean, I'm sure the losing team probably couldn't play defense, or get the pitches in the zone.  But when the winning score passes about 20 to 23 runs, there's NO coach out there that can claim he did EVERYthing to get the game over with faster. 

 

Look, even if you're one of those saying "that's cheating the kids," then tell players:  "when you put the ball in play, you will not stop running until you're either put out or score.  Even on a ground ball."  Give the other team chances to tag the guy out on every basepath.  Besides, at that kind of score, you've hopefully emptied the bench and given every kid a chance (or 6) at the plate, so the stats issue is solved.

 

 

I don't envy the coaches on either side.  You want to balance the learning opportunities with the game, for sure, because high school ball is supposed to primarily be an educational endeavor.  But during those games when one team cannot play, and their kids are worse than the Bad News Bears in that they don't understand what they're even supposed to do so they never even go after the ball, or simply don't throw it, or do throw it but can't catch it, it's time to admit the game is nothing more than an exercise in perseverance for everyone involved.  

 

Sometimes it just looks like a giant pinball game out there.

[grayhawk]

I think the coach did everything he could, without making a mockery of the game and of the other team.  Striking out on purpose, or running into outs on purpose is more insulting to the other team than just about anything.  There were 30 walks, and my guess is that many of those pitches weren't even close to hitting the zone.

[noumpere]

 

Pretty clear in the rule that you can't stop a game by mutual agreement in NJ since NJ has game ending procedures... namely, 10 after 5 innings, That's a game ending procedure, therefore, according to the FED rule, "If a state association has adopted game-ending procedures, only those game-ending procedures may be used" 

 

I thibnk you might be mis-reading the rule.  10 after five is in the book "by state adoption".  It, in and of itself, does not remove the "by mutual agreement." clause.

[Richvee]

 

 

Pretty clear in the rule that you can't stop a game by mutual agreement in NJ since NJ has game ending procedures... namely, 10 after 5 innings, That's a game ending procedure, therefore, according to the FED rule, "If a state association has adopted game-ending procedures, only those game-ending procedures may be used" 

 

I thibnk you might be mis-reading the rule.  10 after five is in the book "by state adoption".  It, in and of itself, does not remove the "by mutual agreement." clause.

 

Maybe...It's something that'll be brought up at our next association meeting for sure. If not on the agenda, I'll be bringing it up. 

[HokieUmp]

I think the coach did everything he could, without making a mockery of the game and of the other team.  Striking out on purpose, or running into outs on purpose is more insulting to the other team than just about anything.  There were 30 walks, and my guess is that many of those pitches weren't even close to hitting the zone.

 

I feel you.  But I get the feeling that any affront a player might feel - after he looks up what 'affront'  means - has been erasing by the HORRENDOUS ass-beating he's in the middle of.  I mean, I can't speak to anyone other than me - and I'd like to think I have a certain level of competitiveness - but I KNOW that somewhere around 25-3, if not before, I'd be thinking "please God, let it be over."  I'd probably be okay with a plague of locusts, tornado, even a minor stroke (if I can't get ALL of us out, let ME out!).

 

(And to your first sentence, how is a score more than 20, when playing five innings, anything BUT a mockery of the game already?  Can we really set the game back any further?)

[ricka56]

Kids are tremendously resilient. I'll bet the adults involved are more likely to suffer PTSD from this experience than the kids. Endeavor to persevere 

[Rich Ives]

If you aren't bunting on every pitch, you aren't doing everything you can to keep the score down.  I will go to the winning coach and ask him, "Don't your kids need work on their bunting today?"  They usually give me that look like a lightbulb just went off in their head and nod!

 

I haven't yet had a team that couldn't field a bunt and get 3 outs in a reasonable amount of time...especially when they know it is coming!

 

On those days when everything is going to pot 2/3 of the bunts will get thrown into RF. Many of the rest will get dropped by the fielder. Been there. Both sides.

[Mudisfun]

Good news kids... you all get some practice working on your switch hitting today. Good luck.

[labguy1971]

Had a game that was a blowout (32-3).  The winning team's coach told me in between innings that he was going to lead off "big" so that his runners could easily get picked off to quicken the game up.  It ended up being 32-3 as a final.  Other coach seemed relieved. 

[labguy1971]

Mudisfun, on 06 Apr 2015 - 4:55 PM, said:

Good news kids... you all get some practice working on your switch hitting today. Good luck.

Also had a game in which this happened.  Not as much of a blowout but big enough lead all his batters started to switch hit.  They still scored some runs that way as well.  Good post Mudisfin.

[th3]

Had a game that was a blowout (32-3).  The winning team's coach told me in between innings that he was going to lead off "big" so that his runners could easily get picked off to quicken the game up.  It ended up being 32-3 as a final.  Other coach seemed relieved. 

i dont agree with that...