1st baseman error

[Guest Gary]

The ball is hit short of the pitcher who comes forward, fields the grounder, throws to first base. The ball is not caught by the first baseman and runner is safe. The ball was thrown about shoulder high, but not in align with bag,. The throw beat the runner and in fact passed between the runner and the first baseman. First baseman could have caught the ball with average stretch but he is heavy and not very flexible. Also, because the ball was close to the runner it made him nervous and he did not make a movement other than to extend his arm, also, in my opinion he could have taken a small step and made a tag. Is this an error on the throw (pitcher) or the catch attempt (first baseman)? First baseman was really upset with the scorekeeper for recording the error on him.

[maven]

Scoring rules are not generally enforced by umpires. Someone here probably knows the answer to your question, though. If not, you could try scorekeeper-empire.com.

[Richvee]

Official scoring like this is a "had to be there" situation. From what you describe it sounds like the throw was on line, beat the runner, but F3 just didn't move the glove and/or his lead foot to properly catch the throw. From what you describe, I've got E3. Now if the ball is thrown in the dirt, or F3 needed to come off the bag to field the throw, I've got E1. If F3 simply needed to extend his arm to make the catch and for some reason got a case of alligator arms, which is what the OP sounds like to me, E3. 

[Rich Ives]

E3.

[blue23ll]

Why is the F3 upset about an error? Does it take him out of the running for the Gold Glove award?

[Larry in TN]

Scoring decisions are governed by Rule 10 in official baseball rules (OBR).  You didn't say under what ruleset the game was played.  Little League has their own version of Rule 10 which is called "What's the Score?"  (http://www.littleleaguestore.net/340.html)

 

It comes down to the judgement of the official scorer.  In this situation, the benefit of the doubt will normally go to the player who is receiving the throw but the scorer still has to determine if the play could have been made by a player at the applicable level who played with ordinary effort.

 

Another thing to consider is how difficult was it for the fielder to field the ball and make an accurate throw in time?  The rule of thumb is that if above average play failed to produce an out then it wasn't an error.  An exmaple similar to your situation would be a very good bunt which the pitcher was able to get to and throw but it took better play than would normally be expected at that level and the pitcher's throw was on time but off target.  That could be just a hit--no error.

 

Here are the applicable paragraphs from OBR.

10.12 Errors
An error is a statistic charged against a fielder whose action has assisted the team on offense, as set forth in this Rule 10.12.
(a) The official scorer shall charge an error against any fielder:

(1) whose misplay (fumble, muff or wild throw) prolongs the time at bat of a batter, prolongs the presence on the bases of a runner or permits a runner to advance one or more bases,

Rule 10.12(a)(1) Comment: ... If a throw is low, wide or high, or strikes the ground, and a runner reaches base who otherwise would have been put out by such throw, the official scorer shall charge the player making the throw with an error. ... 

(5) whose wild throw permits a runner to reach a base safely, when in the scorer's judgment a good throw would have put out the runner, ...

(8) whose failure to stop, or try to stop, an accurately thrown ball permits a runner to advance, so long as there was occasion for the throw. ...

 

Here are the applicable paragraphs from LL's What's the Score?

10.13 - An error shall be charged for each misplay (fumble, muff or wild throw) which prolongs the time at bat of a batter or which prolongs the life of a runner, or which permits a runner to advance one or more bases.

 

(d) (1) An error shall be charged against any fielder whose wild throw permits a runner to reach a base safely, when in the scorer’s judgment a good throw would have put out the runner.

(e) An error shall be charged against any fielder whose failure to stop, or try to stop, an accurately thrown ball permits a runner to advance, providing there was occasion for the throw.

[ZebraStripes]

As a former official scorekeeper, I would say as described I would give an error to F3.  

[goody14]

Scoring rules are not generally enforced by umpires. Someone here probably knows the answer to your question, though. If not, you could try scorekeeper-empire.com.

Step 1.) Check to see if scorekeeper-empire.com is available (it is!)

Step 2.) Create website

Step 3.) Charge for access

Step 4.) Retire to beach

 

25% of the way to early retirement!

[maven]

 

Scoring rules are not generally enforced by umpires. Someone here probably knows the answer to your question, though. If not, you could try scorekeeper-empire.com.

Step 1.) Check to see if scorekeeper-empire.com is available (it is!)

Step 2.) Create website

Step 3.) Charge for access

Step 4.) Retire to beach

 

25% of the way to early retirement!

 

 

Given the number of these questions that pop up, you could probably do this. Who knew that umpires would flock to this site?

 

I'll look for my check in the mail.

[noumpere]

Why is the F3 upset about an error? Does it take him out of the running for the Gold Glove award?

I think it's more likely that F3's mom / dad was upset than it is that F3 was upset. (or that BR's mom / dad was upset that it wasn't a hit)

 

Maybe not in the OP, but if we had 100 similar plays.

[Rich Ives]

 

Why is the F3 upset about an error? Does it take him out of the running for the Gold Glove award?

I think it's more likely that F3's mom / dad was upset than it is that F3 was upset. (or that BR's mom / dad was upset that it wasn't a hit)

 

Maybe not in the OP, but if we had 100 similar plays.

 

 

OP said who was upset.

[Guest Gary]

Thanks all, F3 was upset. It's understandable but when he got a little more upset than a high schooler should I thought I would see what others say. You know how they can be and taking blame on mistakes but love the glory.

[Richvee]

Thanks all, F3 was upset. It's understandable but when he got a little more upset than a high schooler should I thought I would see what others say. You know how they can be and taking blame on mistakes but love the glory.

I'm gonna sound like an old grumpy man but I see it so much in kids under 30...not just on the ballfield, it's at work, or anywhere. It's never their fault. Always an excuse or someone else's fault. It's never "my bad". Horrible trait shared by many young adults.