Dan Ruehle

I am actually surprised how few people think that an error should be able to be charged in a situation like this and instead just say that the rules state otherwise and we should blindly follow the rules. The only way rules are improved is by people questioning and challenging them. I totally understand the rules state that an error cannot be charged if the batter-runner makes it to first base. I just think that the rules are limiting and that it should be possible to charge an error in this situation if one is indeed warranted, as happened in the 2005 ALCS. Now, making it an option may make scorers incorrectly score plays, but that is another issue.

OK, you ask, and I shall supply. Please look at https://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2005/B10120CHA2005.htm, 2005 ALCS game. You can see the description here. The scoring of the bottom of the 9th goes like this: As can be clearly seen, Pierzynski struck out, it was ruled a dropped 3rd strike, no WP or PB charged, but an error was charged to Josh Paul, the catcher. As this is a postseason game, I am sure this would be corrected if the scoring were indeed wrong.

Since there is no WP or PB scored on that play and Carlos Gomez struck out, the scoring saying he advanced to 2nd indicates a 3 base error, 2 bases for Carlos Gomez and one for Jonathan Lucroy. If he stopped at first, would have just said Carlos Gomez advanced to 1st. Bottom line, here is a real world MLB scenario where a player reaches base safely on a dropped 3rd strike and no WP or PB is scored. If that doesn't prove that it is possible, not sure what else would.

So, the scoring of that game can be found at https://www.mlb.com/gameday/brewers-vs-marlins/2014/05/24/381270#game_state=final,game_tab=play-by-play,game=381270. Top of the 8th. Here is the scoring of the play: No mention of a WP or PB. So, either the scorer messed up and no one caught it, or it is possible to have a dropped 3rd strike result in an error. Doesn't get get more simple than that. Thanks roughie!

I'm sorry, not trying to be a pain or ignorant. I don't see a rule that states "when a batter reaches 1B on an uncaught 3rd strike it's a WP or a PB and no error can be charged" simply. The rules do say that if the runner reaches first as a result of a WP or PB, no error should be charged. They also set forth the parameters around what should be called a WP or PB. What I am saying is that if those parameters are not met, the rules are unclear.

I am really not searching for something to piece together an argument for my case. Rule 9.12(e) says So, lets take this situation. Pitcher delivers pitch on 0-2 count in the dirt, batter swings, catcher fields cleanly. Catcher throws ball to first baseman who muffs the catch, batter-runner is safe on first. According to rule 9.13(a): the pitcher should not be charged with a wild pitch. There was not "a legally delivered ball touches the ground or home plate before reaching the catcher and is not handled by the catcher". The "and" there is important. Both conditions must be satisfied, and in this situation, they are not. Therefore, the last sentence of 9.13(a) should not be applied because the third strike was not a wild pitch. Also, 9.12(e) should not be applied as there was technically not a wild pitch. I'm not saying that in practice, all dropped 3rd strikes aren't scored as a WP or PB. But, applying logic to these rules does not spell out how it should be handled in plain, simple terms. Plain and simple terms would be something like: I'm sure someone could write that better, and I know it seems petty to pick around at the rules about this. But, rules that are this vague will only be clarified if questioned. And I think there is wiggle room here and the rule is not clear.

I really appreciate the responses, well, all except the one about me not checking with GameChanger first, which I did and was directed to the help article mentioned, but does not point to any specific rule. Silly me, I don't just take a company's help article as a baseball rule. From the official MLB rules at http://mlb.mlb.com/documents/0/8/0/268272080/2018_Official_Baseball_Rules.pdf which does include the rule provided above, but also includes these rules. So, I would argue that if the third strike is thrown in the dirt, but the catcher handles it cleanly, or the catcher drops the ball but controls it quickly, neither situation of rule 9.13 is satisfied to charge a passed ball or wild pitch. Therefore, rule 9.12(e) does not apply and rule 9.12(a)(1,3,4 or 5) should apply and an error charged to either the catcher if the throw was at fault or the first baseman if the catch was not made or the base or runner was not tagged. Oh, and I completely understand the desire to "rip Rule 10 out of the book" as it doesn't affect the actual result of the game. I am just a fan of baseball and was curious when I wasn't allowed to score plays as I thought they should be.

I have had this situation come up several times and use GameChanger to score games and can never score it correctly. GameChanger seems to think that there can never be a situation where an error can be charged on a dropped third strike when the batter-runner reaches safely (https://gamechanger.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212071606-Scoring-a-Dropped-3rd-Strike-). Here is the part I am questioning: I would argue that there is a situation. The pitch is either bounced (wild pitch) and the batter swings or the catcher drops the third strike (passed ball), but the catcher manages to field the ball cleanly afterwards. At this point, I think there could be two possible errors. The catcher could make an errant throw, allowing the batter-runner to be safe. I can see how this situation could be considered just a passed ball or wild pitch, it is still the battery making a mistake. However, what if the throw is perfect, but the first baseman muffs the catch. Should this not be an error on the first baseman? Especially when the pitch was a curveball and the battery is expecting the ball to hit the ground and ready for it? Seems wrong for the battery to be charged with a mistake when the first baseman truly allowed the batter-runner to reach safely. It also seems wrong to charge a pitcher with a wild pitch when the catcher was able to field cleanly, but then proceeded to throw the ball away. Thoughts? Any actual rules apply to this?