we all miss one now and then

[Jocko]

And boy did I ever. I'm on the stick. NFHS rules. Last time I had this team the HC was ejected. New game new day, right? Yeah. Critical moment in late innings. 2 run game. Bases loaded. 2 outs. Sound proverbial? Yeah. And a VERY good F2 is up to bat. Works deep into the count. With 2-2, he hits a grounder down 1BL. Just outside the line. What do I do? FOUL! And no sooner than I get the word out of my mouth........ball hits the bag and caroms to the fence. I IMMEDIATELY start cursing myself. Bite the bullet. "Coach, I blew that call. That ball was fair, we all know it, and I totally kicked it. But the fact remains that the ball is foul." I gave him a mile of rope. And he used it. Next pitch is D3K and the batter is thrown out at 1B. Inning over. Next half inning, VT scores 6 earned runs. Wow. Bottom of the last, HT pop up, single, pop up, liner. Ball game. And I have to eat the sh@t sandwich I made.

[blue23ll]

White or wheat with that sandwich?

 

We've all been there and done that, and it never gets easier.

[maven]

 Next half inning, VT scores 6 earned runs.

 

Now, see? Baseball gods got your back, Jocko!

[Jocko]

The offended team lost.

[Majordave]

Timing. Timing. Timing. My brother.

Sorry you had to eat that sandwich again. Was it a soggy one? (Use Major Payne voice to say that.)

No matter how slow you think you are you can always get slower.

I'm still working on it myself.

[maven]

The offended team lost.

 

True, but your mistake didn't give the opponent 6 earned runs to blow it open.

[Jocko]

Timing. Timing. Timing. My brother.

Sorry you had to eat that sandwich again. Was it a soggy one? (Use Major Payne voice to say that.)

No matter how slow you think you are you can always get slower.

I'm still working on it myself.

yep. It's all about the timing. Slow down. And when you think you're slow enough, slow down some more.

We know it. We live by it. And some days it STILL bites us (me) on the arse.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Jocko

[Majordave]

I went slow on a call at 3B yesterday as BU and got it right but wished I had gotten it wrong or been quicker.  Bottom 6th.  Tie game.  1 out.  R1 tries to stretch outfield single to 3B.  Throw and runner arrive virtually simultaneously.  Slide is weird, R1 legs spread wide and tag is down in between them.  I wait, and wait for F5 to show me the ball.  He holds it up.  I replay slide and tag in my head.  Runner is already up on his feet and standing on the bag.  I bang him out after my own virtual instant replay shows me a tag before runner touches base and F5 maintains control of the ball.

 

Home HC comes out, wants me to ask my partner.  "No John, my call.  I saw it, I was in great position.  Yes, it was weird tag but he got him between the legs before he touched third."  We agreed to disagree and then next batter hits into inning ending DP.  On to the 7th, then the 8th and finally home team gets 2 runners with one out and big dude slams a walk off to win it.  All is forgiven.  

 

During second game as PU I had to help my partner on a ground ball that hit home team's R1 in heel as he made his way to 2B, barely nicked it but it changed spin on ball ever so slightly. Partner did not call it.  Visiting HC and dugout are going nuts.  Partner asks what I have.  I say, don't you mean to ask me if I have the ball hitting runner?  Yes, I do.  He's out.  Here comes home team head coach asking me if I have it in for them.  "No way it hit the runner."  "Yes it did.  I got a good look.  It did John."  "No way, Dave! " "Ok.  We are going to have to agree to disagree again John.  Let's play ball."  Homers go on to win 18-2 so no hard feelings.

 

Late in game 2 John tells me after talking with his players that I got both calls right.  Feels good to have him admit that.  And I think more of him for it.  BTW, this was same coach I had to take my mask off for on HBP disagreement and chirping I discussed about two or three weeks ago.

 

All's well that ends well I guess.

 

Sorry for the hijack but your post and my timing comment made me think about how if I had been quicker I might have gotten a safe and saved us an inning of baseball.  But, of course, getting it right is way more important than an extra inning.  And, my conscience is absolutely clear at this point.  And my confidence is high with the admission of the coach that I got them right after he spoke with his players.  Rare thing, honest players and humble coach to admit he was wrong.  I thanked him of course.

[woodiemiller]

During a college post season game, 3 man, my U1 had R1 on base with less than 2 outs. Pitcher throws to 1B in an effort to pick off the runner. He gets the ball there so long before the runner gets back that the 1B swipes at the runner & misses completely because the runner was that slow or that far off! My partner calls him "Out!" 

The 3B coach yells over, "Larry, he never tagged him!"

Larry replies, "I didn't say he tagged him, I called him OUT!"

1) Don't get too cute on tag plays.

2) Don't reward bad base running.

[th3]

And boy did I ever. I'm on the stick. NFHS rules. Last time I had this team the HC was ejected. New game new day, right? Yeah. Critical moment in late innings. 2 run game. Bases loaded. 2 outs. Sound proverbial? Yeah. And a VERY good F2 is up to bat. Works deep into the count. With 2-2, he hits a grounder down 1BL. Just outside the line. What do I do? FOUL! And no sooner than I get the word out of my mouth........ball hits the bag and caroms to the fence. I IMMEDIATELY start cursing myself. Bite the bullet. "Coach, I blew that call. That ball was fair, we all know it, and I totally kicked it. But the fact remains that the ball is foul." I gave him a mile of rope. And he used it. Next pitch is D3K and the batter is thrown out at 1B. Inning over. Next half inning, VT scores 6 earned runs. Wow. Bottom of the last, HT pop up, single, pop up, liner. Ball game. And I have to eat the sh@t sandwich I made.

i thought you retired?

[Richvee]

 

And boy did I ever. I'm on the stick. NFHS rules. Last time I had this team the HC was ejected. New game new day, right? Yeah. Critical moment in late innings. 2 run game. Bases loaded. 2 outs. Sound proverbial? Yeah. And a VERY good F2 is up to bat. Works deep into the count. With 2-2, he hits a grounder down 1BL. Just outside the line. What do I do? FOUL! And no sooner than I get the word out of my mouth........ball hits the bag and caroms to the fence. I IMMEDIATELY start cursing myself. Bite the bullet. "Coach, I blew that call. That ball was fair, we all know it, and I totally kicked it. But the fact remains that the ball is foul." I gave him a mile of rope. And he used it. Next pitch is D3K and the batter is thrown out at 1B. Inning over. Next half inning, VT scores 6 earned runs. Wow. Bottom of the last, HT pop up, single, pop up, liner. Ball game. And I have to eat the sh@t sandwich I made.

i thought you retired?

 

More calls like this and he might...again.   

[Richvee]

 

The offended team lost.

 

True, but your mistake didn't give the opponent 6 earned runs to blow it open.

 

True..But the HC thinks differently. 

[Rich Ives]

During a college post season game, 3 man, my U1 had R1 on base with less than 2 outs. Pitcher throws to 1B in an effort to pick off the runner. He gets the ball there so long before the runner gets back that the 1B swipes at the runner & misses completely because the runner was that slow or that far off! My partner calls him "Out!" 

The 3B coach yells over, "Larry, he never tagged him!"

Larry replies, "I didn't say he tagged him, I called him OUT!"

1) Don't get too cute on tag plays.

2) Don't reward bad base running.

 

Don't reward bad tagging.

[labguy1971]

_{Sorry it bit ya, but oh well it has happened to us all.  Another game coming soon and you will put this one behind you.    Probably what you were doing after it happend.  Hang in there Blue}  

[T-Rav]

Let me provoke some intellectual discussion:

 

Why not overturn an obvious miss like the one Jocko mentioned in his OP? If we miss an obvious call like the ball hitting the bag, wouldn't it be better to take the SH*# for getting the call right rather than sticking with an obviously missed call and telling the coach we missed it?

 

For example in a game last season, I was the PU and my BU was in A and there was a bounding ball that bounded over 1st base in fair territory, it was an easy fair ball that likely would have been a double except my partner called it foul. I believe that it was apparent to everyone that he missed it and the coach came out to him and we got together (whether right or wrong for us getting together), and I told him what I had and we changed the call to a double. We got the call right and no-one said a word, not even the spectators.

[Jocko]

Let me provoke some intellectual discussion:

 

Why not overturn an obvious miss like the one Jocko mentioned in his OP? If we miss an obvious call like the ball hitting the bag, wouldn't it be better to take the SH*# for getting the call right rather than sticking with an obviously missed call and telling the coach we missed it?

 

For example in a game last season, I was the PU and my BU was in A and there was a bounding ball that bounded over 1st base in fair territory, it was an easy fair ball that likely would have been a double except my partner called it foul. I believe that it was apparent to everyone that he missed it and the coach came out to him and we got together (whether right or wrong for us getting together), and I told him what I had and we changed the call to a double. We got the call right and no-one said a word, not even the spectators.

NFHS 2-16-1-E

[Majordave]

He's right. No getting the call correct provisions in FED. Just another reason for baseball rules unification. I have no problem with the getting it correct viewpoint but the FED rules do not have that provision like NCAA.

[Jocko]

He's right. No getting the call correct provisions in FED. Just another reason for baseball rules unification. I have no problem with the getting it correct viewpoint but the FED rules do not have that provision like NCAA.

not only no provisions for correcting, explicit by definition NOT to correct it

[conbo61]

Jocko's case was "too quick" foul call, but I do remember one post here where it was suggested, that when in doubt call it fair let the runners get to where they get to.  It is easier to "correct" to a foul and return the runners to where they were at TOP, as opposed to correct to fair and guess where the runners may have ended up.

[Kevin_K]

Jocko's case was "too quick" foul call, but I do remember one post here where it was suggested, that when in doubt call it fair let the runners get to where they get to.  It is easier to "correct" to a foul and return the runners to where they were at TOP, as opposed to correct to fair and guess where the runners may have ended up.

@combo.... but as others have indicated, FED rules prohibit "getting it right." Once an umpire calls it foul and the ball touches the ground, it is foul regardless of whether it was or was not foul.

[maven]

He's right. No getting the call correct provisions in FED. Just another reason for baseball rules unification. I have no problem with the getting it correct viewpoint but the FED rules do not have that provision like NCAA.

 

I disagree. With some of the goofy umpires I see out there, I'm not sure I'd trust them to place runners after screwing up fair/foul.

 

Instead, we teach this as a reason to emphasize proper mechanics, in particular waiting to call foul. Since you can't change that call (once the ball hits the ground), wait until you're positive. Once it's foul nothing can happen anyway (usually), so there's no rush to make that call.

[conbo61]

Jocko's case was "too quick" foul call, but I do remember one post here where it was suggested, that when in doubt call it fair let the runners get to where they get to. It is easier to "correct" to a foul and return the runners to where they were at TOP, as opposed to correct to fair and guess where the runners may have ended up.

@combo.... but as others have indicated, FED rules prohibit "getting it right." Once an umpire calls it foul and the ball touches the ground, it is foul regardless of whether it was or was not foul.

I agree. FED does not let you correct a "foul" call. But if you (as BU for sake of discussion) call it fair and your partner (PU) comes to you at the stoppage of play and says he clearly saw foul, you can correct that and return the runners.

Perhaps the point I was trying to make was more appropriate for OBR games.

[johnnyg08]

I think this case comes down to terminology more than timing.  

 

When is a batted ball foul?  When does a batted ball become a fair ball?  

 

If we know the terminology timing doesn't make a bit of difference here.  

[Thunderheads]

I think this case comes down to terminology more than timing.  

 

When is a batted ball foul?  When does a batted ball become a fair ball?  

 

If we know the terminology timing doesn't make a bit of difference here.  

While I agree, ....I also agree that Greg knows the terminology ... he just brain farted, and WE ALL DO IT!

[maven]

While I agree, ....I also agree that Greg knows the terminology ... he just brain farted, and WE ALL DO IT!

Sure, I don't think anyone disputes that.

 

Emphasizing the "brain fart" aspect of Jocko's situation deflects judgments that he's a bad umpire. Some umpires who make bad calls are bad umpires; Jocko just had a brain fart (sorry, to pick on you here by name, Jocko, but I'm working up to a point).

 

What we don't want to do is to say, well, Jocko had a brain fart and kicked one, so that's all there is here. No: there's a learning opportunity, a chance to remind ourselves of (a) the fair/foul definition, (b) the FED rule about fixing a fair/foul call, (c ) proper mechanics for ruling a foul ball, (d) the importance of having good timing, (e) ultimately, the need to get ourselves trained so that our timing is proper every time.

 

So thank you, Jocko, for the opportunity to learn!