Unequal vs West Vest Gold

[Thunderheads]

 

Ok so maybe the UE CP looks cool, feels cool.. but when you get hit, it's going to hurt... I have a hard shell plastic Cp.. i got hit last weekend.. maybe 92mph.. nothing i feel it cause well it hit me, but it did not hurt...

 

Think about your life and protection versus looking cool.. would you wear shin guards that were not hard plastic?  I bet not, so why different for the equipment that is over your heart ( hello) and ribs?

What do the police officers say who wear Kevlar to protect their heart from bullets?

 

Have you ever seen someone who's been shot with a bullet proof vest ??

[johnnyg08]

Ok so maybe the UE CP looks cool, feels cool.. but when you get hit, it's going to hurt... I have a hard shell plastic Cp.. i got hit last weekend.. maybe 92mph.. nothing i feel it cause well it hit me, but it did not hurt...

 

Think about your life and protection versus looking cool.. would you wear shin guards that were not hard plastic?  I bet not, so why different for the equipment that is over your heart ( hello) and ribs?

What do the police officers say who wear Kevlar to protect their heart from bullets?

Have you ever seen someone who's been shot with a bullet proof vest ??

Yes. Broken ribs and all. Fortunately all of them are still alive which is the point of the vest.

[Razzer]

 

I hate all you guys for making me buy more gear!!

Ordered the UE CP yesterday!!!

 

Me too...the UE CP and SP are on the way and if i like them the 2 douglas CP's are going up for sale

[Magic]

Ok so maybe the UE CP looks cool, feels cool.. but when you get hit, it's going to hurt... I have a hard shell plastic Cp.. i got hit last weekend.. maybe 92mph.. nothing i feel it cause well it hit me, but it did not hurt...

Think about your life and protection versus looking cool.. would you wear shin guards that were not hard plastic? I bet not, so why different for the equipment that is over your heart ( hello) and ribs?

What do the police officers say who wear Kevlar to protect their heart from bullets?

Have you ever seen someone who's been shot with a bullet proof vest ??

Yep. My Brother in Law is a LA County Sheriff. And he said he trusts his life with a Kevlar vest, so I can trust my chest with one.

Games worked 24

[johnnyg08]

Yep. My Brother in Law is a LA County Sheriff. And he said he trusts his life with a Kevlar vest, so I can trust my chest with one.

Yup.

[Thunderheads]

 

 

 

Ok so maybe the UE CP looks cool, feels cool.. but when you get hit, it's going to hurt... I have a hard shell plastic Cp.. i got hit last weekend.. maybe 92mph.. nothing i feel it cause well it hit me, but it did not hurt...

Think about your life and protection versus looking cool.. would you wear shin guards that were not hard plastic? I bet not, so why different for the equipment that is over your heart ( hello) and ribs?

What do the police officers say who wear Kevlar to protect their heart from bullets?

 

Have you ever seen someone who's been shot with a bullet proof vest ??

 

Yep. My Brother in Law is a LA County Sheriff. And he said he trusts his life with a Kevlar vest, so I can trust my chest with one.

Games worked 24

 

 

 

 

Yep. My Brother in Law is a LA County Sheriff. And he said he trusts his life with a Kevlar vest, so I can trust my chest with one.

Yup.

 

Guys ..... please ....

TOTALLY different circumstances.

 

Basically what you're saying is the while your "life" is ok, ...you'll gladly accept a potential broken rib, or sternum?

 

TO ME, that's ludicrous.   But again, THAT'S ME, and my .02.     This discussion is like politics and religion .... no winners

[Magic]

Ok so maybe the UE CP looks cool, feels cool.. but when you get hit, it's going to hurt... I have a hard shell plastic Cp.. i got hit last weekend.. maybe 92mph.. nothing i feel it cause well it hit me, but it did not hurt...

Think about your life and protection versus looking cool.. would you wear shin guards that were not hard plastic? I bet not, so why different for the equipment that is over your heart ( hello) and ribs?

What do the police officers say who wear Kevlar to protect their heart from bullets?

Have you ever seen someone who's been shot with a bullet proof vest ??

Yep. My Brother in Law is a LA County Sheriff. And he said he trusts his life with a Kevlar vest, so I can trust my chest with one.

Games worked 24

Yep. My Brother in Law is a LA County Sheriff. And he said he trusts his life with a Kevlar vest, so I can trust my chest with one.

Yup.

Guys ..... please ....

TOTALLY different circumstances.

Basically what you're saying is the while your "life" is ok, ...you'll gladly accept a potential broken rib, or sternum?

TO ME, that's ludicrous. But again, THAT'S ME, and my .02. This discussion is like politics and religion .... no winners

It's an addiction man. Once you start drinking the Kool aid you can't stop. Come on over Thunderheads. There is room for you on the Unequal Express. Saving Umpire chests since 2012.

Games worked 24

[Thunderheads]

 

 

 

 

 

Ok so maybe the UE CP looks cool, feels cool.. but when you get hit, it's going to hurt... I have a hard shell plastic Cp.. i got hit last weekend.. maybe 92mph.. nothing i feel it cause well it hit me, but it did not hurt...

Think about your life and protection versus looking cool.. would you wear shin guards that were not hard plastic? I bet not, so why different for the equipment that is over your heart ( hello) and ribs?

What do the police officers say who wear Kevlar to protect their heart from bullets?

 

Have you ever seen someone who's been shot with a bullet proof vest ??

 

Yep. My Brother in Law is a LA County Sheriff. And he said he trusts his life with a Kevlar vest, so I can trust my chest with one.

Games worked 24

 

 

 

Yep. My Brother in Law is a LA County Sheriff. And he said he trusts his life with a Kevlar vest, so I can trust my chest with one.

Yup. Guys ..... please ....

TOTALLY different circumstances.

Basically what you're saying is the while your "life" is ok, ...you'll gladly accept a potential broken rib, or sternum?

TO ME, that's ludicrous. But again, THAT'S ME, and my .02. This discussion is like politics and religion .... no winners

 

It's an addiction man. Once you start drinking the Kool aid you can't stop. Come on over Thunderheads. There is room for you on the Unequal Express. Saving Umpire chests since 2012.

Games worked 24

 

         

 

Magic, ...that's a great response!  

[johnnyg08]

Guys ..... please ....

TOTALLY different circumstances.

 

Basically what you're saying is the while your "life" is ok, ...you'll gladly accept a potential broken rib, or sternum?

 

TO ME, that's ludicrous.   But again, THAT'S ME, and my .02.     This discussion is like politics and religion .... no winners

It's not different. If you want a heavier vest so that when you get hit you don't feel anything, that equipment exists.

I don't think that the UE was ever marketed as the vest that is designed for you to not feel anything.

Should I not wear my seatbelt because it might break my ribs if I need to use it?

I do agree, that it is a personal preference thing, but to say that the UE is inadequate b/c it's made of the same material that stops bullets is silly. Maybe not your thing or a users preference, but it's certainly adequate.

The Platinum, Gold, All Star, Douglas, etc...are all great vests and from a baseball standpoint I would wear any of them and feel safe.

I think we'd all agree that he balloon/raft offers the best protection of any "vest" but none of us will be caught dead wearing that thing...and it's not even a hard shell.

I also agree that it really is a Chevy/Ford argument.

[JaxRolo]

The fact is that unless you have tried the CP and taking a shot you would have no clue as to the effectiveness and how and how much you feel.

[johnnyg08]

The fact is that unless you have tried the CP and taking a shot you would have no clue as to the effectiveness and how and how much you feel.

I think that's true, except for the benefit of this forum to hear from those who have been hit w/ the various CP's. We're getting global feedback on this equipment which didn't exist until recently.

[Thunderheads]

 

Guys ..... please ....

TOTALLY different circumstances.

 

Basically what you're saying is the while your "life" is ok, ...you'll gladly accept a potential broken rib, or sternum?

 

TO ME, that's ludicrous.   But again, THAT'S ME, and my .02.     This discussion is like politics and religion .... no winners

It's not different. If you want a heavier vest so that when you get hit you don't feel anything, that equipment exists.

I don't think that the UE was ever marketed as the vest that is designed for you to not feel anything.  No ...and that's never been questioned.

Should I not wear my seatbelt because it might break my ribs if I need to use it?  Again, wrong argument, you're talking about "life/death", like the "kevlar stops bullets" theory.

I do agree, that it is a personal preference thing, but to say that the UE is inadequate b/c it's made of the same material that stops bullets is silly. Maybe not your thing or a users preference, but it's certainly adequate. I concur.

The Platinum, Gold, All Star, Douglas, etc...are all great vests and from a baseball standpoint I would wear any of them and feel safe.

I think we'd all agree that he balloon/raft offers the best protection of any "vest" but none of us will be caught dead wearing that thing...and it's not even a hard shell.

I also agree that it really is a Chevy/Ford argument. That's good!

 

Ok, ...let me ask this as an additional question:

What did you wear before your "Gold", or "Douglas" or whatever?

[johnnyg08]

Ok, ...let me ask this as an additional question:

What did you wear before your "Gold", or "Douglas" or whatever?

Thinking back many years, but I think I wore a CP called Pro-Nine. Soft shell. I may have missed a CP in there somewhere but it probably was the Pro Nine

[johnnyg08]

Should I not wear my seatbelt because it might break my ribs if I need to use it?  Again, wrong argument, you're talking about "life/death", like the "kevlar stops bullets" theory.

How is it the wrong argument? The point of a CP is to assist in the prevention of serious injury or death.

If a piece of equipment is out there that would stop a bullet why wouldn't I wear it to prevent serious injury or death from a pitched ball or foul ball?

[GerryB]

+POS, BB203

[scrounge]

 

Should I not wear my seatbelt because it might break my ribs if I need to use it?  Again, wrong argument, you're talking about "life/death", like the "kevlar stops bullets" theory.

How is it the wrong argument? The point of a CP is to assist in the prevention of serious injury or death.

If a piece of equipment is out there that would stop a bullet why wouldn't I wear it to prevent serious injury or death from a pitched ball or foul ball?

 

 

It's wrong - or rather an apples vs okra argument - because the items are designed to prevent totally different things. A bullet proof vest is NOT designed to prevent serious injury. It has one sole, singular purpose - to prevent penetration of a medium velocity metal object. When the alternative is a small piece of metal tumbling inside you and creating a wound channel thru your liver, of course the trade off of a potential broken rib or bruising is worth the risk. But penetration risk isn't an issue for baseball....it's deflection and pain avoidance from a blunt impact of a far lesser velocity object. The tradeoff there is...well, nothing except much more minor comfort and appearance issues. That's a totally different scale and it's very fair to judge it under much different criteria.

[johnnyg08]

It's wrong - or rather an apples vs okra argument - because the items are designed to prevent totally different things. A bullet proof vest is NOT designed to prevent serious injury. It has one sole, singular purpose - to prevent penetration of a medium velocity metal object. When the alternative is a small piece of metal tumbling inside you and creating a wound channel thru your liver, of course the trade off of a potential broken rib or bruising is worth the risk. But penetration risk isn't an issue for baseball....it's deflection and pain avoidance from a blunt impact of a far lesser velocity object. The tradeoff there is...well, nothing except much more minor comfort and appearance issues. That's a totally different scale and it's very fair to judge it under much different criteria.

I agree w/ you on the penetration risk. But to say/imply that something is less safe that is also used to stop bullets isn't a reasonable conclusion in my mind.

I would also agree that just because the other CP's aren't made with Kevlar they are equally safe for umpiring baseball games. It is a matter of personal preference. In fact, for me I use my Douglas and my UE and most days it's an issue of my mood for the day.

[Thunderheads]

It's wrong - or rather an apples vs okra argument - because the items are designed to prevent totally different things. A bullet proof vest is NOT designed to prevent serious injury. It has one sole, singular purpose - to prevent penetration of a medium velocity metal object. When the alternative is a small piece of metal tumbling inside you and creating a wound channel thru your liver, of course the trade off of a potential broken rib or bruising is worth the risk. But penetration risk isn't an issue for baseball....it's deflection and pain avoidance from a blunt impact of a far lesser velocity object. The tradeoff there is...well, nothing except much more minor comfort and appearance issues. That's a totally different scale and it's very fair to judge it under much different criteria.

I agree w/ you on the penetration risk. But to say/imply that something is less safe that is also used to stop bullets isn't a reasonable conclusion in my mind.

I would also agree that just because the other CP's aren't made with Kevlar they are equally safe for umpiring baseball games. It is a matter of personal preference. In fact, for me I use my Douglas and my UE and most days it's an issue of my mood for the day.

Yes, that's what I'm referring to.

 

Kevlar = Stopping a bullet, thus saving your life.   Seat belt = Keeping you secure while your automobile if in an accident, thus saving your life.   That's not what we're talking about.  That's what I meant by wrong argument.  Scrounge said it better though.

 

Why go from a Pro9 (or any other soft shell protector) to a hard shell?  Better protection, right?  Pro9 was "adequate" though ..yes?

 

You nailed it John, no doubt .... PERSONAL PREFERENCE .... we look at it differently, that's all.

 

But to say/imply that something is less safe that is also used to stop bullets isn't a reasonable conclusion in my mind.

In the process of stopping bullets however, ...a bullet proof vest doesn't stop injury (yes, bullets and baseballs are very different, but .... )... ...so in essence, ...are you in using a 'soft-shell'?

[johnnyg08]

In the process of stopping bullets however, ...a bullet proof vest doesn't stop injury (yes, bullets and baseballs are very different, but .... )... ...so in essence, ...are you in using a 'soft-shell'?

I suppose you could say that it is a soft shell. Since it's not a hard shell. So did I go back to a soft shell after "upgrading" to hard shell? I guess at face value it would appear that way but we probably agree that there are more layers to the switch than hard vs soft.

I switched from the Pro-Nine to the Gold at the time because I felt like I needed more of a "big-boy" CP. At the time it felt like the right choice and today, I still feel like it was the right choice. The UE didn't exist when I had to choose between hard shell and soft shell.

I know guys who work higher level baseball than me who still wear equivalent to the Pro-Nine or even a Pro-Nine. I also know guys working higher level baseball than me wearing the UE, Douglas, WV, Carlucci, etc...

[Thunderheads]

 

In the process of stopping bullets however, ...a bullet proof vest doesn't stop injury (yes, bullets and baseballs are very different, but .... )... ...so in essence, ...are you in using a 'soft-shell'?

I suppose you could say that it is a soft shell. Since it's not a hard shell. So did I go back to a soft shell after "upgrading" to hard shell? I guess at face value it would appear that way but we probably agree that there are more layers to the switch than hard vs soft.

I switched from the Pro-Nine to the Gold at the time because I felt like I needed more of a "big-boy" CP. At the time it felt like the right choice and today, I still feel like it was the right choice. The UE didn't exist when I had to choose between hard shell and soft shell.

I know guys who work higher level baseball than me who still wear equivalent to the Pro-Nine or even a Pro-Nine. I also know guys working higher level baseball than me wearing the UE, Douglas, WV, Carlucci, etc...

 

Understood.

 

Like I said in the last response, .... It's how each individual analyzes it and looks at the issue ....that's the REAL difference I think.  And, those are the people who feel differently about this CP...they look at it differently, and in turn, is a personal preference.

 

It's all good, and good discussion, and really reflects the individuality of people, etc 

[Fittske24]

Well if F1 ever pulls a gun out and starts shooting at you....glad to know you UE wears will be protected from the bullets. So until the "concealed weapon" rule is added to the rulebook...I'll stick with my hard shell.

[umpstu]

Ok so maybe the UE CP looks cool, feels cool.. but when you get hit, it's going to hurt... I have a hard shell plastic Cp.. i got hit last weekend.. maybe 92mph.. nothing i feel it cause well it hit me, but it did not hurt...

 

Think about your life and protection versus looking cool.. would you wear shin guards that were not hard plastic?  I bet not, so why different for the equipment that is over your heart ( hello) and ribs?

Nobody would buy shin guards without hard plastic because they don't look cool.  I had a six way bypass in 2008 and wear with the UE cp without any hesitation because it offers great protection.

[umpstu]

 

It's wrong - or rather an apples vs okra argument - because the items are designed to prevent totally different things. A bullet proof vest is NOT designed to prevent serious injury. It has one sole, singular purpose - to prevent penetration of a medium velocity metal object. When the alternative is a small piece of metal tumbling inside you and creating a wound channel thru your liver, of course the trade off of a potential broken rib or bruising is worth the risk. But penetration risk isn't an issue for baseball....it's deflection and pain avoidance from a blunt impact of a far lesser velocity object. The tradeoff there is...well, nothing except much more minor comfort and appearance issues. That's a totally different scale and it's very fair to judge it under much different criteria.

I agree w/ you on the penetration risk. But to say/imply that something is less safe that is also used to stop bullets isn't a reasonable conclusion in my mind.

I would also agree that just because the other CP's aren't made with Kevlar they are equally safe for umpiring baseball games. It is a matter of personal preference. In fact, for me I use my Douglas and my UE and most days its an issue of my mood for the day.

 

A very good post.

[johnnyg08]

Well if F1 ever pulls a gun out and starts shooting at you....glad to know you UE wears will be protected from the bullets. So until the "concealed weapon" rule is added to the rulebook...I'll stick with my hard shell.

Because we all know that the bad guys follow all of the laws. Since we're going there.

Gun laws in a chest protector thread. Awesome in so many ways.

[Majordave]

www.yourlogicalfallacyis.com