Question...(ok, advice)

[HHolland71]

Rec league, Intermediate fall ball. Regular season.

R2 (I'm in C) 2 outs, pitch delivered, R2 stealing. F2 fires a rocket to 3rd (while I take 2 steps & pivot) who applies tag to R2 sliding in. Close play, but I check the glove for the ball & bang the out. HC steps towards & points his finger at me (aggressively IMO) and yells (in front of VT dugout) "You were in the wrong position to make that call! He was under the tag!"

I looked at him for a second (in shock, maybe) and he started walking to his dugout. Nothing else was said. Talked to PU - who told me it was a clean call & he had the same thing. Rest of the game was quiet.

Called my assignor afterwards & told him what happened in case he got a complaint.

 

HC happens to also be the baseball commissioner for the association. (I would expect him to know how to ask for a proper appeal)

I'm thick-skinned & not looking to toss anyone, but want to get it right.

Here's my questions. (1) Was this enough for a warning/EJ? (2) What would you have said (if anything), and (3) By not saying anything, will this cause me problems in future games?

 

Thanks for help

[BRUMP]

anytime time coaches start to tell me how to do my job they can usually expect a firm "knock it off"

[grayhawk]

Was the VT dugout on the 1B side (as it usually is)?  If so, I think I would laugh at him for thinking he had a better view than you did.  Absent that, if he says that and nothing else and walks back, then the matter is closed as far as I am concerned.

 

When did you talk the the PU?  Right after the play?  Later in the game?  I prefer not to speak with my partner soon after a disputed call.  Makes you look unsure of yourself.

 

I would also not call my assignor about something this trivial.  You made a call and the coach disagreed - so what?

 

About your position - on a steal, you should angle towards a point halfway between home and third and get set for the call.  I would think you could get more than 2 steps unless you were caught off guard.

[James Walker]

IMO, you did what you could( depending on length of time between his comment and his turning away and headed towards the dugout). To warn while he's walking away will make you look like the aggressor. That being said, this guy is now on my radar. Any further remarks about positioning will lead to a short night for this coach.

To answer you question:

1) Yes. It is enough to get a warning. Depending on volume and theatrics, may also be an ejectable offense.

2) Either "Knock it off" or "That's enough" while holding up the stop sign. (Although, in this particular case I'd ignore)

3). It shouldn't, but sometimes coaches just refuse to let things go.

[mr magoo]

I always have trouble with this play. I continue to work on it but I feel being behind the runner your automatically at a disadvantage

[HHolland71]

Was the VT dugout on the 1B side (as it usually is)?  If so, I think I would laugh at him for thinking he had a better view than you did.  Absent that, if he says that and nothing else and walks back, then the matter is closed as far as I am concerned.

 

When did you talk the the PU?  Right after the play?  Later in the game?  I prefer not to speak with my partner soon after a disputed call.  Makes you look unsure of yourself.

 

I would also not call my assignor about something this trivial.  You made a call and the coach disagreed - so what?

 

About your position - on a steal, you should angle towards a point halfway between home and third and get set for the call.  I would think you could get more than 2 steps unless you were caught off guard

Honestly, position & angle were good to make the call. Wanted to make sure I kept the tempo level. Thanks for the advice

[VAUmp]

I always have trouble with this play. I continue to work on it but I feel being behind the runner your automatically at a disadvantage

 

 

Head for the 45 foot mark.  Remember angle is more important than distance.  

[maven]

 

I always have trouble with this play. I continue to work on it but I feel being behind the runner your automatically at a disadvantage

 

 

Head for the 45 foot mark.  Remember angle is more important than distance.  

 

 

My state wants us to move directly to HP to open up the angle even more. It also helps keep you focused on the ball, which might come right at you if the batter hits the pitch!

[grayhawk]

 

Was the VT dugout on the 1B side (as it usually is)?  If so, I think I would laugh at him for thinking he had a better view than you did.  Absent that, if he says that and nothing else and walks back, then the matter is closed as far as I am concerned.

 

When did you talk the the PU?  Right after the play?  Later in the game?  I prefer not to speak with my partner soon after a disputed call.  Makes you look unsure of yourself.

 

I would also not call my assignor about something this trivial.  You made a call and the coach disagreed - so what?

 

About your position - on a steal, you should angle towards a point halfway between home and third and get set for the call.  I would think you could get more than 2 steps unless you were caught off guard

Honestly, position & angle were good to make the call. Wanted to make sure I kept the tempo level. Thanks for the advice

 

 

Not sure what you mean by this.

[HHolland71]

 

 

Was the VT dugout on the 1B side (as it usually is)?  If so, I think I would laugh at him for thinking he had a better view than you did.  Absent that, if he says that and nothing else and walks back, then the matter is closed as far as I am concerned.

 

When did you talk the the PU?  Right after the play?  Later in the game?  I prefer not to speak with my partner soon after a disputed call.  Makes you look unsure of yourself.

 

I would also not call my assignor about something this trivial.  You made a call and the coach disagreed - so what?

 

About your position - on a steal, you should angle towards a point halfway between home and third and get set for the call.  I would think you could get more than 2 steps unless you were caught off guard

Honestly, position & angle were good to make the call. Wanted to make sure I kept the tempo level. Thanks for the advice

 

 

Not sure what you mean by this.

 

Firm & Fair with the coach

[Magic]

I wouldn't have said a word. As a matter of fact, my back would have been turned to the coach and I would have been jogging back to Right CF. That way he would have had to chase me if he wanted to talk. But that's just me.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

Rec league, Intermediate fall ball. Regular season.

R2 (I'm in C) 2 outs, pitch delivered, R2 stealing. F2 fires a rocket to 3rd (while I take 2 steps & pivot) who applies tag to R2 sliding in. Close play, but I check the glove for the ball & bang the out. HC steps towards & points his finger at me (aggressively IMO) and yells (in front of VT dugout) "You were in the wrong position to make that call! He was under the tag!"

I looked at him for a second (in shock, maybe) and he started walking to his dugout. Nothing else was said. Talked to PU - who told me it was a clean call & he had the same thing. Rest of the game was quiet.

Called my assignor afterwards & told him what happened in case he got a complaint.

 

HC happens to also be the baseball commissioner for the association. (I would expect him to know how to ask for a proper appeal)

I'm thick-skinned & not looking to toss anyone, but want to get it right.

Here's my questions. (1) Was this enough for a warning/EJ? (2) What would you have said (if anything), and (3) By not saying anything, will this cause me problems in future games?

 

Thanks for help

 

 This play is not subject to an "appeal". I think what you might have meant was "getting help", which, in my opinion, you have no business doing in this particular instance. The coach's argument was that the runner was "under the tag". There is no way I am going to my partner to tell me, from 70 (?) feet away, whether it was a good tag or not. If there was a possibility that the ball was dropped, I MIGHT go to my partner. Do not allow yourself to be bullied by coaches into "appealing" to your partner. It can turn into a vicious cycle once you do.

[JaxRolo]

You mentioned proper appeal. There is nothing to appeal. Own the call.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pete you beat me to it!!!

[Pete Peterson Sr]

You mentioned proper appeal. There is nothing to appeal. Own the call.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pete you beat me to it!!!

Reading is, indeed, fundamental...  

[bam]

I'd be curious to know where he thought you should be.  Since it's Fall Ball I might have asked.  In fact, I would have asked. 

[jjb]

Nah, don't be asking coaches for Umpiring advice: it just opens the door for him.

[KenBAZ]

I'd have ignored this, the coach does not know where I'm supposed to be. If that's all he said then turned away, I'd be gone. He didn't have a question.

I wonder about you only getting two steps to the 45 foot line. Is that what you want to do or was that all you had time for?

[Replacematt]

Assuming he hasn't been whining excessively, there's no reason to engage him here; it's only going to make things worse. Get to your next position and pretend you didn't hear. You're not going to get him to shut up by giving him the satisfaction of a response.

[blue23ll]

The 45 degree point is the magic place for plays from B and C, work to get there!  

 

Again, 2 man is a compromise, and there are times, depending on where the coach is, that he might actually have a better look at the play. So what. 

[catsbackr]

As described, ignore, but file it away for future references.

[HHolland71]

Hey guys, same coach last week.... different scenario

R2, B1 hots a sharp line drive down 3rd - that hits F5 in the knee & shoots into the VT dugout. I show fair, then call dead ball & award accordingly. HTC on his way to check player arrogantly asks (loud enough for VT to hear) how the ball hit his player in foul territory and I signaled fair.

Me: "Coach, it hit him in fair territory".

HTC: "Well you missed that call, so you go to your little partner & get it right!"

Me: Coach, are you asking me to get help? [dead silence]

HTC: Whatever you have to do to get it right!

Me: Fair ball, Coach

HTC: You are out of your mind! (loud enough for the whole ballpark to hear)

Me: That's enough, Coach

 

UIC (didn't witness this event) tells me later that there are some guys this coach thinks he can run roughshot over.

Really don't want to dump someone in fall ball intermediates, but really....

[chadozee]

And YOU are out of this game Coach!

[Replacematt]

1. His first comment should have been met with an ejection. He insulted you as a team.

2. You implied you would go for help, then didn't. Not a good idea.

[grayhawk]

1. His first comment should have been met with an ejection. He insulted you as a team.

 

 

I don't know.  Maybe his partner WAS little.  

 

I don't think I would have ejected on the first comment, but there is no possible way the coach stays after saying, "You are out of your mind!" for the whole park to hear.

[Replacematt]

1. His first comment should have been met with an ejection. He insulted you as a team.

I don't know. Maybe his partner WAS little.

I don't think I would have ejected on the first comment, but there is no possible way the coach stays after saying, "You are out of your mind!" for the whole park to hear. Can you really do anything after the first comment, though? If you go for help, now he's just bullied you into doing what he wants. I can see where you're coming from, but this conversation has to end after he says that. I'm not so sure you can keep him in the game and not look confrontational when you tell him that you aren't going for help.

FWIW, I don't think going for help on this play is an option, so the subject should not be entertained.