Beyond mad at the league I am UIC for.....

[Jocko]

Like @KLAH316 I wasn't afforded the opportunity to give my account. I also wasn't privy to the HCs account. In the 'Good 'ole boy' league I started out in, decisions were made without all facts and evidence being presented by all parties involved. So what. The slap in the face to me was no less legitimate. In my situation, I did the only thing honor would allow me to do. And, having adopted the mantra "Death Before Dishonor" back in my military days, I had 2 choices.....walk away quietly or make a big stink and walk away. I chose to simply walk away. And have ZERO regrets.

[bam]

Call LL regional office and follow with an email. I bet Region will make a couple calls. A league can't rescind a suspension, check the operating manual. Your local league will then probably change the local rule so the manager can participate in the all-star tournament, at least you'll have the satisfaction of having gotten someone's attention.

[Majordave]

Yes! Sick corporate on them.

Lawyer up!

[KLAH316]

Call LL regional office and follow with an email. I bet Region will make a couple calls. A league can't rescind a suspension, check the operating manual. Your local league will then probably change the local rule so the manager can participate in the all-star tournament, at least you'll have the satisfaction of having gotten someone's attention.

Done.  Waiting for a response.

[JaxRolo]

Call LL regional office and follow with an email. I bet Region will make a couple calls. A league can't rescind a suspension, check the operating manual. Your local league will then probably change the local rule so the manager can participate in the all-star tournament, at least you'll have the satisfaction of having gotten someone's attention.

Done. Waiting for a response.

Good!

[smoyer]

Do not lower yourself.Leave

[dumbdumb]

And there is someone on here who knows everything about LL forwards and backwards and has yet to let us in on how LL works in this situation. Doesn't matter if we like it or not, it is what it is. Does LL international want to hear about these type incident's. If it went to the district guy, does it just die there? Shouldn't the incident be passed all the way up to Williamsport so they can log this incident? Does Williamsport not give a flying rip about this type of problem and sell the District guy down the road for not being able to handle his district and keeping things hush hush any way he can and get rid of the people who are should we say whistleblowers, or they will get rid of him/her as district rep??? Come on, somebody knows how this organization works. Let's hear or will someone get in trouble for telling how this organization really works or cares about their umpires. Are the umps just a base or doorknob that can just be replaced and they do not have time for the low hanging fruit and the little things like this, they only have time for the important things whatever they are. Somebody out there let us know.

 

Seems like the board could make changes (they cannot violate rule 4.07 in any) way but anything else a league draws up can be open for change. It would seem that if the violation occurred during the terms that were agreed to, that one would have to stick to those terms. One could go to the board prior to being ejected, and ask the board to rescind the boards rule of not being able to coach the all stars for the next game the coach plays, because he wants to get ejected. If that was passed the coach could then go out and get ejected, and not be subject to the prior penalty for not coaching all stars. Then, the day after he is ejected, the Board could meet again and re-institute the old policy. They could change policy daily if they want to, but the policy of that day would carry for that day, it would seem. Not the best way to run things, and I do not know about the timing, and how long you have to let everyone know ahead of time about a local procedure change, but it looks like things other than the rule book and that LL specifically back, are open to however the powers that be want to run things and LL could care less.

 

So, how much does LL really care about these fiefdoms and how they relate to the umpires. Inquiring minds want to know.

[SJA]

So, how much does LL really care about these fiefdoms and how they relate to the umpires. Inquiring minds want to know.

Does this give you an idea of what they think about Umpires?:

Page 14 of the LL Rule Book under "Umpires":

"There is no sound reason for paying umpires, or any other person whose services should be on a volunteer basis."

Does anyone think that the Williamsport "powers to be" are VOLUNTEERING THEIR SERVICES?? . . . BS!

IMHO, their statement is degrading and uncalled for . . . and I've told them so verbally and in writing.

SJA :-(

[Pete Peterson Sr]

 

So, how much does LL really care about these fiefdoms and how they relate to the umpires. Inquiring minds want to know.

Does this give you an idea of what they think about Umpires?:

Page 14 of the LL Rule Book under "Umpires":

"There is no sound reason for paying umpires, or any other person whose services should be on a volunteer basis."

Does anyone think that the Williamsport "powers to be" are VOLUNTEERING THEIR SERVICES?? . . . BS!

IMHO, their statement is degrading and uncalled for . . . and I've told them so verbally and in writing.

SJA :-(

 

 

According to whom ? Quite presumptuous, if you ask me. 

[Jocko]

So, how much does LL really care about these fiefdoms and how they relate to the umpires. Inquiring minds want to know.

Does this give you an idea of what they think about Umpires?:

Page 14 of the LL Rule Book under "Umpires":

"There is no sound reason for paying umpires, or any other person whose services should be on a volunteer basis."

Does anyone think that the Williamsport "powers to be" are VOLUNTEERING THEIR SERVICES?? . . . BS!

IMHO, their statement is degrading and uncalled for . . . and I've told them so verbally and in writing.

SJA :-(

 

According to whom ? Quite presumptuous, if you ask me.

not at all. If they can get enough chumps to call their games for free, why WOULD they pay them? Corporate LL knows that 90% of their officials are a joke. Yet, they are happy to keep the status quo and laugh all the way to the bank. It's not the LL powers that be to blame. It's the parent's fault for not having a mutiny and the chump's fault for working for free.

If someone VOLUNTEERS to mow my yard, and does a half assed job at it, but I'm satisfied, why would I pay someone else to do a better job?

[SJA]

LL parents putting up more $$$ for paid umpires?? . . . HA! no chance of that happening in my area.

:-(

[Pete Peterson Sr]

LL parents putting up more $$$ for paid umpires?? . . . HA! no chance of that happening in my area.

:-(

 

Eventually, they will run out of "volunteers". It gets harder each year to recruit new officials, and harder to retain the ones we have. Sooner or later, the pool will dry up, and the ones doing it for free will be gone.

[BigUmpire]

Bumper sticker:

 

• " I don't do this for the money BUT I won’t do it for free"- BigUmpire

[SJA]

LL parents putting up more $$$ for paid umpires?? . . . HA! no chance of that happening in my area.

:-(

 

Eventually, they will run out of "volunteers". It gets harder each year to recruit new officials, and harder to retain the ones we have. Sooner or later, the pool will dry up, and the ones doing it for free will be gone.

The wheels to our LL are already moving towards it's demise.

sad . . . :-(

[Larry in TN]

The UIC of our LL (nearly 1500 kids playing on 13 busy fields) has enough trouble finding enough paid umpires to cover all of the games.  He was out calling a rescheduled game Thursday night because he couldn't find anyone else to cover it.  

 

I don't know how a LL can do it with just volunteers.  We do use the 2-man system for all kid-pitch games.  I suppose you could drop all those down to 1-man but I still think it would be a problem staffing the games.

 

My 14yr old son starting officiating this season at the 6yr old level.  He's paid $20 game.  The kid-pitch baseball pays $35 for the BU and $45 for the PU.  Don't know about softball.

[Jocko]

@Larry in TN - does the remuneration disqualify them from ever going to Williamsport?

[elares]

Our LL where my boys play uses a mix of volunteer and paid plate umpires with all volunteer base umpires.  Lots of district umpires volunteer during the regular season.  I think all weekend games at the most advanced play field (LL Majors) were covered by district umpires.  There is talk of going with all paid guys and raising the fees. 

One of our neighboring leagues uses all paid umps.

A plate assignment costs the league $50.  I don't know how much of that goes to the assignor and how much to the umpire.

[SJA]

@Larry in TN - does the remuneration disqualify them from ever going to Williamsport?

Jocko, according to WP, yes being paid while doing LL will eliminate your possibility of going to WP and also you will not be covered by LL insurance while doing the LL games . . . at any level.

:-(

[Majordave]

When I played LL in the 70's the umpires were paid. One of the young guys who was only two or three years older than me that called our games was one of my umpire assigners in college and summer ball when I umpired in Kentucky. He told me when I started working for him he got his start in my LL making $5-$10/game. He went pro for a while and is an NCAA D1 CWS umpire now.

When I coached LL in the 80's in Virginia and in the 90's in KY we paid our umpires $20-$25/game. I was on the board. No way we'd have had umpires if we didn't.

I was asked by a HS partner who was LL UIC to work a 10U LL regional and 12U LL State tournament in 2008 and I was paid $40/game. I was assigned 10-12 games in each tourney. Worked about half of them and turned back the rest to go work 14/15 travel ball and Legion. Couldn't hack the bad baseball in "All-Stars" mind you.

I don't understand the umpire volunteer thing. Never seen it in any LL I've been associated with. Other than some idiot parents' comments and some really bad catchers not protecting me from pretty good pitches I had no problems with coaches or anyone else in LL.

I didn't like it so I didn't work anymore but I definitely would not have worked it for free. I did approach the plate meeting and coaches' comments like a high school or college game in terms of behavior expectations of participants so maybe the upper echelon training I had received paid off and prevented the ignorance from showing up. The "trained and certified umpire presence"(for lack of a better term) is something a lot of the kid and volunteer good guy umpires don't have a lot of initially.

And then there are your guys like ex-superstar Mitch Williams who are determined to show their ass.

[Umpire in Chief]

@Larry in TN - does the remuneration disqualify them from ever going to Williamsport?

 

In my area many of the LL groups pay, because they can't get volunteers. 

 

I have a friend who was on the state LL board, a HS postseason umpire and a great guy. If he was assigned a game at a LL complex he always returned the money. 

 

He would do districts with no problem, he did a regional or two but was continually told he wasn't good enough to go further. They made him attend a week long camp in FL, then he did some super regionals (or what ever they are called in LL) He said people there were rude to him and treated him differently because he was also a HS umpire and accepted money for games outside of LL. 

 

IMO this is unacceptable. SO what if he gets paid outside of LL he's given you countless hours of his time and dedication. 

 

He was such a firm believer in LL that he continued with them until he passed a few years ago despite the treatment they gave to him.

[grayhawk]

We all tend to judge LL and their policies based on our own experiences.  I have come to learn that each league has its own culture and there is no one way that is right for everyone.

 

Some leagues use all paid umpires

Some leagues use a mix of paid and volunteers

Some leagues are all volunteer

Some leagues allow parents to "buy out" their volunteer responsibilities (with the money going to paid folks, such as snack bar workers)

Some leagues don't allow the "buy out" option

Some leagues allow for underprivileged kids to play for free, others don't

 

You get the idea.  I was UIC for 2 years of our local LL, and we never paid an umpire.  We were not a huge league - about 500 kids - but I was able to get over 98% of all slots filled, including every plate, for both seasons.  We put the responsibility on the manager, and he would go out and recruit 2-3 dads to help over the course of the season.  We ran clinics.  People showed up.  The district also ran clinics, and people showed up.

 

Our volunteers did their best.  Every parent and coach had to sign to acknowledge our zero tolerance policy.  We had few problems, and fewer ejections.  Was it perfect?  Certainly not.  But I found that most parents were more forgiving of their neighbor who missed a call than a guy who they didn't know and was getting paid (as we see in Pony, AAU, USSSA, etc).  It felt like a community, and it was fun for most everyone involved.

 

I don't begrudge any LL that pays their snack bar folks, their scorekeepers, those that prep their fields, or the umpires.  If that's right for them, then who am I to say otherwise?  But let's also remember that it's just recreational baseball.  80% of the game is played with 20% of the rules, and the majority of the calls are obvious to grandma in the bleachers.  If you are, or have been involved in a LL where the board has run amok, where politics trump everything, and where the parents are out of control, then I am sorry for your experience.  I'm here to say that in some places, it works how it should.  I hope for my former league (son aged out), that it continues to work as it has.

[Majordave]

@grayhawk.   Well said.

 

Glad you had a good experience and memories.

 

More power to them.  It is a disjointed organization for sure.  All four of the LL organizations, five if you count the state tourney side I umpired as an organization, were extremely unique in personality and how they operated.

 

I  have some good and some bad memories like everything else I have participated in during my crazy life to this point.

[Mark Pepper]

@KLAH316, Kevin--I'm really interested if anything has transpired from this.  Did you leave?  Did you get to meet with the board?  Did the regional office investigate?  I really hope it worked out in your favor and for the kids!

[bam]

Mark Pepper, on 14 May 2014 - 1:54 PM, said:

@KLAH316, Kevin--I'm really interested if anything has transpired from this.  Did you leave?  Did you get to meet with the board?  Did the regional office investigate?  I really hope it worked out in your favor and for the kids!

When THE F&CK did this become about the kids???

 

Get your head on straight, man!

[Jocko]

@bam - without the kids, there's no GLMs