Test Question

[JamesC]

FED Rules

True or False: After the pitcher legally contacts the pitcher's plate, he may turn his shoulders to check runners from either the windup or set position.

Ok, I know what you're thinking. Easy, right? Here's where I raise the question. FED rule 6.1 says, "Turning the shoulders to check runners while in the set position is legal."

However, I cannot find anything regarding this while in the windup. Is there any rule that covers this specifically, and if so, can you provide the reference?

[UmpTTS43]

FED is DUM

[FlaUmp22]

FED is DUM

Doesn't even deserve the B... :wave:

[JamesC]

Agreed. I'm certain the rule book's definition of set is my definition of stretch, but if we're going verbatim then that part of the test question has to be true. What about the windup part?

[Jimurray]

Where are you reading rule 6.1? That reference (with the periods) is usually a caseplay. In any case, turning the shoulder in either the set foot position prior to stretching and actually coming set, or in the windup is nothing. You might make a case that while moving the shoulder in the windup the pitcher moved both arms and thus the TOP was initiated and you could balk this. I hope you won't. You also might make the case that the pitcher in the windup moved his shoulder and thus began a pickoff which is illegal from the windup foot position. I hope you don't do that either. To quote Ump TTS43, FED is DUM. You don't have to be.

[mjr_2013]

FED isn't DUM… Their tests sure are though… Just remember that the point of them is to get guys who wouldn't look at the rule book to look at them, and I think it works, even if it pisses all of us off when we get something like this wrong.

[JamesC]

See, I'm thinking this is true because I can't find anything to disprove it. The first paragraph under pitching has this sentence in it, Jimurray.

[JaxRolo]

Answer is true, I had his question and got it right

[Richvee]

Last year's NJ FED test had this question.

 

It asked if turning the shoulders while n the windup position is legal.

 

Answer was It is NOT  legal. 

I would assume they consider it the start of his motion. 

[alex7]

According to the BRD, FED doesn't allow checking of runners from the windup if it involves turning the shoulders.

 

In 6-1-2, it states "With his feet in the wind-up position, the pitcher may only deliver a pitch or step backward off the pitcher's plate with his

pivot foot first."  Combined with FED explicitly stating that a pitcher can turn his shoulders from the set position, we posit he can't from the wind-up position.  Pitch or step-off.  That's it.

[Richvee]

Odd. But don't forget FED calls the "pre set" the set position. We all know once a pitcher comes set after the stretch he cannot turn the shoulders. so..bottom line...bad question. 

[ricka56]

It is a bad question and communicates that turning the shoulders after F1 has finished contacting the rubber in the windup position is legal. It is not. Once F1 has finished his initial windup stance, his next movement that isn't a disengagement (or a direct step throw in OBR), frees R1 to run.

 

If F1 is in the process of contacting the rubber (not done) and turns his shoulders prior to completing this initial windup stance, no problem (if this is what makes the answer to this question true, then that's a BS)...but if he turns after he's finished his initial windup stance, that most certainly is a balk. 

[Rich Ives]

Why is he pitching from windup with runners on?

[Jimurray]

Why is he pitching from windup with runners on?

There are a few runner combinations where they might windup if not concerned with squeeze or steal.

[JamesC]

Bases loaded possibly? Or a runner on third only is another possibility. It happens most often with the better teams around here when there's nowhere for the runner(s) to go.

[BT_Blue]

This answer shouod be FALSE.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

Odd. But don't forget FED calls the "pre set" the set position. We all know once a pitcher comes set after the stretch he cannot turn the shoulders. so..bottom line...bad question. 

 

 What is this "pre-set" you speak of ?  There are two legal pitching positions: The set, and the wind-up. They are differentiated between, and defined by, the position of the pitcher's feet, relative to the pitcher's plate.

[Richvee]

 

Odd. But don't forget FED calls the "pre set" the set position. We all know once a pitcher comes set after the stretch he cannot turn the shoulders. so..bottom line...bad question. 

 

 What is this "pre-set" you speak of ?  There are two legal pitching positions: The set, and the wind-up. They are differentiated between, and defined by, the position of the pitcher's feet, relative to the pitcher's plate.

 

 Looking in for a sign. Before the pitcher stretches and comes set. Pivot foot on the rubber, free foot in front, ball in the glove or bare hand, hands separated. Often it's tough for me to figure out when FED is talking about this position or after a stretch and the pitcher comes set with hands together, ready to begin his pitching motion. (or pickoff move as the case may be) 

[Pete Peterson Sr]

 

 

Odd. But don't forget FED calls the "pre set" the set position. We all know once a pitcher comes set after the stretch he cannot turn the shoulders. so..bottom line...bad question. 

 

 What is this "pre-set" you speak of ?  There are two legal pitching positions: The set, and the wind-up. They are differentiated between, and defined by, the position of the pitcher's feet, relative to the pitcher's plate.

 

 Looking in for a sign. Before the pitcher stretches and comes set. Pivot foot on the rubber, free foot in front, ball in the glove or bare hand, hands separated. Often it's tough for me to figure out when FED is talking about this position or after a stretch and the pitcher comes set with hands together, ready to begin his pitching motion. (or pickoff move as the case may be) 

 

 

 I got ya. Once he has his feet set, he is either in the set or the windup. He is in the set "position" once he has his pivot foot in contact with, or directly in front of, the pitcher's plate. Just keep in mind that even before he does a "stretch" he is still in the "SET" position. Coming set, and the set position, are two different animals, really. Your description above is what FED is referring to as the "set position". I hope this helped you, rather than making it more confusing.

[Richvee]

Yep. I get it. But it drives me nuts.......example...

 

T-F  A pitcher can't move his shoulders in the set position.

 

Set "position" or after he "comes set"? 

[Pete Peterson Sr]

Yep. I get it. But it drives me nuts.......example...

 

T-F  A pitcher can't move his shoulders in the set position.

 

Set "position" or after he "comes set"? 

 

 But that is a product of idiotic test writers. The rule makes it very clear what is and isn't legal. Thankfully we do not take the "Fed" test here. We have our own State test. It may well be made up of actual Fed questions, but I have yet to come across any of the poorly-worded examples I have been hearing about for years on the interwebs.

[Richvee]

 

Yep. I get it. But it drives me nuts.......example...

 

T-F  A pitcher can't move his shoulders in the set position.

 

Set "position" or after he "comes set"? 

 

 But that is a product of idiotic test writers. The rule makes it very clear what is and isn't legal. Thankfully we do not take the "Fed" test here. We have our own State test. It may well be made up of actual Fed questions, but I have yet to come across any of the poorly-worded examples I have been hearing about for years on the interwebs.

 

That's my point. 

[noumpere]

Yep. I get it. But it drives me nuts.......example...

 

T-F  A pitcher can't move his shoulders in the set position.

 

Set "position" or after he "comes set"? 

Is that a real question or one you made up?

 

And, the restrictions from the set position happen after the hands are joined, not after the pitcher "comes set."

[Richvee]

 

Yep. I get it. But it drives me nuts.......example...

 

T-F  A pitcher can't move his shoulders in the set position.

 

Set "position" or after he "comes set"? 

Is that a real question or one you made up?

 

And, the restrictions from the set position happen after the hands are joined, not after the pitcher "comes set."

 

I made it up. But I've seen similar questions. And I always think, what position are they actually talking about. 

[EMump]

The set position is defined by foot placement on the rubber. The Set is when the pitcher brings his hands together and stops.