Ejection advice? pt 2.

[tjwoelfel13]

I'm mentoring a friend who wants to become an umpire and we got to the game management part. He will be starting at the Kindergarten level.

 

I'm not very good with dealing with coaches.  I'd really appreciate some advice.  

This is what I have told him.

 

There are 4 main automatic ejections.  1. Foul language, 2. Physical Contact with you, 3. Questioning the umpire's integrity, 4. Personal Attacks, .

 

Allow the coach to question the call but only after calling time and have it granted.   Not excessively or use of histrionics.  First let the coach  say his piece and then you say yours.  Don't let the coach interrupt or shush you.

 

If a coach makes contact with you, eject and call the police.

 

Don't be afraid to eject but don't look for them.

 

If your partner ejects someone rodeo them off by acting as a shield and as a guide, Never make contact.. Move them to the exit of the dugout  but never leave the field. 

 

If I have missed something please let me know, nicely please.

 

I want to help my friend become a good umpire and I could learn some more too.

[mjr_2013]

I think you hit the main points. 

 

As far as personal attacks go, emphasize that the CALL can be as horrible as he believes it is. The CALL can be bologna. The CALL can be the worst the coach has seen in twenty years… But when YOU become horrible, YOU become bologna, and YOU are the worst umpire the coach has seen in twenty years, he can hit the road early.

 

Don't always go to your partner when a coach requests help. He may want help, but if you don't need help, don't get it. Don't go to your partner simply to appease a coach.

 

I'm sure your friend is smart enough to use common sense regarding contact with a coach and calling the police.

[JaxRolo]

You are off to a good start. Start ejecting early and as time goes by and you get experience on handling situations things will come together for you!

[catsbackr]

Ejections:  3 P's, prolonged, profane, personal.

 

Prolonged:  "That's enough coach, knock it off."  Coach persists.  Gone.

 

Profane:  "Hey blue, you f*%%%* suck!"  Gone.

 

Personal:  "You missed that call, you need to get in the game."  Gone.

[Thunderheads]

you're umpiring at the kindergarten level and discussing ejections ................. 

[JaxRolo]

you're umpiring at the kindergarten level and discussing ejections ................. 

Good Point!

[maven]

To support newer umpires, many youth leagues have moved to a "zero tolerance, zero discussion" policy. Nobody may question or discuss an umpire's call, period. That keeps everyone participating, which is the goal. Newer umpires have so much to manage working alone, I think that's great at the youngest levels.

 

If you're working with a newer umpire and discussing ejections, I'd guess his league doesn't have that policy. Here are a few points I teach.

 

1. Insist that coaches address you respectfully: no shouting, stomping, rushing onto the field. Do the same for the coach. "Coach, I'm happy to discuss the call with you, but you need to stop shouting." Don't continue until he settles down, and if he won't, toss him. A quiet conversation seldom escalates to an EJ.
2. The OP mentions listening, which is exactly right. "What did you see, coach?" Now, the first words out of your mouth set the tone for what will happen next. I always try to start by agreeing with the coach: "You're right, coach, the runner did make contact with your short stop. But I saw the contact on the 1B side of the bag, and he slid directly into the base. By rule that's legal contact, coach, I'm sorry your player got hurt."
3. There's never any reason to get upset or angry: your opinion is the only one that counts. Relax, explain your ruling, and get the game going again so coach has something to occupy his mind. If the coach wants to be a jackwagon, he can do it somewhere else.
4. You do not need to convince everyone on the field that you're right. Some will continue to believe that you're wrong, and that is fine. If he wants to argue, nip it in the bud. "Coach, I understand your point, but I've explained the ruling to you. Now let's play ball." If he won't, he can take his argument to the parking lot.
5. Never talk to the fence.

[maven]

Sorry, one more thing to share.

 

A point I've really been emphasizing to our newer umpires is to approach coach interactions of all sorts — not just disputed calls, but pretty much everything you say to them — with the idea of collaboration in mind. The coaches and I are working together to ensure a smooth, well-played, sporting, competitive game decided by the players on the field.

 

Too many umpires approach coach interactions with conflict and confrontation in mind. They bark orders, have confrontational body language, and otherwise send the message that they basically despise coaches. Maybe you think they're all rats for getting an edge, legal or not; fine, but so what? They're still your best hope for corralling a bunch of testosterone-fueled teenage boys.

 

So I have inserted a phrase in many of my requests to coaches: "Coach, can you help me out with...?" When he complies with my request, now he's helping me — or we're helping each other. I have found that this approach is much more productive at the levels I work than confrontation. It might not work in pro ball, but it should be good from NCAA on down.

[catsbackr]

i think, "Coach, can you help me out with...", will work for HS on down.

 

I doubt that it will work for JuCo, NAIA, NCAA, etc.  I can picture some smartass remarks from college coaches such as, "yeah, I'm here to help you" or "yeah, you could use some help", etc.

 

JMHO

[tjwoelfel13]

you're umpiring at the kindergarten level and discussing ejections ................. 

I had an ejection working the Kindergarten level.  http://umpire-empire.com/index.php/topic/55548-2013-ejection-my-second-of-my-career/

 

I don't want him to have one but it is necessary to inform him of what may happen.  Unfortunate as it is, if something comes up he needs to know what to do.  I have told him to never go looking for an ej but if they need to go, they need to go no matter the level of play.  

[maven]

i think, "Coach, can you help me out with...", will work for HS on down.

 

I doubt that it will work for JuCo, NAIA, NCAA, etc.  I can picture some smartass remarks from college coaches such as, "yeah, I'm here to help you" or "yeah, you could use some help", etc.

 

JMHO

 

In my experience, college coaches have no monopoly on smart-ass remarks.

 

If a coach wants to be confrontational from the outset, we can go from there, at any level. My advice is for umpires, at any level, not to start there. Saves needless headaches.

[mstaylor]

Many times in discussions I will ask the coach what he saw or what his interpretation is on a certain play. If he is correct in what he is presenting but just saw the play differently then I tell him that if that had happened he would be correct but that wasn't what I had. I have even told them that from their side it probably looked like they say but from my side I saw it differently.

It tells them that I am not disputing what they think they saw, but it is staying the way I saw it. Very disarming to semi-agree but still not change the call.

Now if they are handing you a myth, or a misinterpretation, tell them so, nicely. I have told them that I understand what they are saying and that it is commonly believed to be correct, but it is not, then explain what is correct.

[kylejt]

A key that I picked up years ago. Write down the managers first name on the score card, and remember and use it. If you say "Mike, take it easy in there", it works way better than "Coach......." It defuses things before they start, and sets a far friendlier tone throughout the game.

[ricka56]

A key that I picked up years ago. Write down the managers first name on the score card, and remember and use it. If you say "Mike, take it easy in there", it works way better than "Coach......." It defuses things before they start, and sets a far friendlier tone throughout the game.

I was taught to use the coach's first name when we're having a one-on-one discussion, but to use "coach" when his players are in earshot. I don't want him "first-naming" me when he's hollering his displeasure, so I don't first-name him in front of his charges...HS varsity and down...YMMV. 

[Texas Manny]

The only thing I would highly weigh out, in terms of the severity of the situation, is calling the police after a coach makes contact with you. There is a difference between a bump and a punch. A shove, or a knockdown. A threat, or an actual assault with equipment.

 

I'm not saying you should take any physical abuse. NO physical violence should be tolerated. I'm just saying exercise very wise discretion when calling the police, because once you open that Pandora's box on a "questionable" reason, it's very hard to close and can come back to bite you hard. By all means, if you feel your life is threatened by the situation, get out of there and yes, call the police. Just use discretion. It is the better side of valor.

 

Only you can know the totality of circumstances, and the level of authoritive attention needed.

[umpstu]

Sorry, one more thing to share.

 

A point I've really been emphasizing to our newer umpires is to approach coach interactions of all sorts — not just disputed calls, but pretty much everything you say to them — with the idea of collaboration in mind. The coaches and I are working together to ensure a smooth, well-played, sporting, competitive game decided by the players on the field.

 

Too many umpires approach coach interactions with conflict and confrontation in mind. They bark orders, have confrontational body language, and otherwise send the message that they basically despise coaches. Maybe you think they're all rats for getting an edge, legal or not; fine, but so what? They're still your best hope for corralling a bunch of testosterone-fueled teenage boys.

 

So I have inserted a phrase in many of my requests to coaches: "Coach, can you help me out with...?" When he complies with my request, now he's helping me — or we're helping each other. I have found that this approach is much more productive at the levels I work than confrontation. It might not work in pro ball, but it should be good from NCAA on down.

Good points, Maven. Umpires and coaches should always remember that they are there for those kids. Without those kids there is nothing. 

 

I like to say baseball is a great game if there weren't coaches and parents involved. Never had a catcher disagree with that. Ha

[Pete Peterson Sr]

 

Sorry, one more thing to share.

 

A point I've really been emphasizing to our newer umpires is to approach coach interactions of all sorts — not just disputed calls, but pretty much everything you say to them — with the idea of collaboration in mind. The coaches and I are working together to ensure a smooth, well-played, sporting, competitive game decided by the players on the field.

 

Too many umpires approach coach interactions with conflict and confrontation in mind. They bark orders, have confrontational body language, and otherwise send the message that they basically despise coaches. Maybe you think they're all rats for getting an edge, legal or not; fine, but so what? They're still your best hope for corralling a bunch of testosterone-fueled teenage boys.

 

So I have inserted a phrase in many of my requests to coaches: "Coach, can you help me out with...?" When he complies with my request, now he's helping me — or we're helping each other. I have found that this approach is much more productive at the levels I work than confrontation. It might not work in pro ball, but it should be good from NCAA on down.

Good points, Maven. Umpires and coaches should always remember that they are there for those kids. Without those kids there is nothing. 

 

I like to say baseball is a great game if there weren't coaches and parents involved. Never had a catcher disagree with that. Ha

 

 

If players and coaches wouldn't cheat, they wouldn't need umpires.