FED Rule Question

[JaxRolo]

Runners @ 1st & 3rd, double steal. B3, 1-1 count, interferes with catcher’s throw to 2nd base. F6
cuts off throw and throws back to F2 to put out R1 at home. R2 reaches 2nd safely.

 

a. Play stands.
b. Interference enforced. Batter is out and runners return.
c. R3’s out at home stands, R1 returns to 1st, B3 remains at bat.
d. None of the above.

[Mr Umpire]

I know this is a FED question but in OBR, B is the answer.  Unless F2's initial throw retires the runner at 2B, no runners may advance.  If he did, then the INT is ignored as if it didn't happen.

[grayhawk]

I know this is a FED question but in OBR, B is the answer.  Unless F2's initial throw retires the runner at 2B, no runners may advance.  If he did, then the INT is ignored as if it didn't happen.

 

It's the same in Fed.  7-3-5 Penalty: "When an attempt to put out a runner at any other base is unsuccessful, the batter is out and all other runners return to bases occupied at the time of the pitch."

 

The "any other base" reference is because the rule first talks about what happens on a play at the plate.

[JaxRolo]

This is what I found:

 

ART. 5 . . . Interfere with the catcher's fielding or throwing by:

a. leaning over home plate,

b. stepping out of the batter's box,

c. making any other movement, including backswing interference, which hinders actions at home plate or the catcher's attempt to play on a runner, or

d. failing to make a reasonable effort to vacate a congested area when there is a throw to home plate and there is time for the batter to move away.

PENALTY: When there are two outs, the batter is out. When there are not two outs and the runner is advancing to home plate, if the runner is tagged out, the ball remains live and interfer­ence is ignored. Otherwise, the ball is dead and the runner is called out. When an attempt to put out a runner at any other base is unsuccessful, the ­batter is out and all runners must return to bases occupied at the time of the pitch. If the pitch is a third strike and in the umpire's judgment interference prevents a possible ­double play (additional outs), two may be ruled out.

 

What I take from what I highlighted in red is that the correct answer is a. because a runner was put out.

 

What say you!

[grayhawk]

Jax, the attempt to put out R1 at second was unsuccessful, so the batter is out.  As soon as F6 cuts off the throw - call time and enforce the penalty.

[JaxRolo]

Jax, the attempt to put out R1 at second was unsuccessful, so the batter is out.  As soon as F6 cuts off the throw - call time and enforce the penalty.

But it says "Put out a Runner" and they did put out a runner.

 

The rule does not say a specific runner.

[th3]

jax - was that in referee mag? 

[Jocko]

@JaxRolo - the inference is on the CATCHER'S attempt to retire a runner (any runner). The initial throw by f2. Cross reference the rule on Umpire Int.

[JaxRolo]

@JaxRolo - the inference is on the CATCHER'S attempt to retire a runner (any runner). The initial throw by f2. Cross reference the rule on Umpire Int.

I agree with you and Grayhawk but the wording on the rule has me wondering. I don't believe it says initial throw.

[JaxRolo]

It seems that you are penalizing the defense by putting the runner at 3rd back.

[mstaylor]

I would say to call like OBR, if the initial throw isn't a putout, kill it. 

[Kevin_K]

Is the throw to 2B a true throw to attempt to retire the runner?

 

What if it's a set play where F6 cuts off the throw prior to the ball getting to 2B in an attempt to prevent R3 from scoring?

[24sdad]

5-1-2

 

ART. 2 . . . It is a delayed dead ball when:

a. there is interference by a batter (Exception 7-3-5 Penalty),

1. When the batter interferes with the catcher attempting to play on a runner, if an out does not result at the end of the catcher's throw, the ball shall become dead immediately.

[JaxRolo]

5-1-2 ART. 2 . . . It is a delayed dead ball when: a. there is interference by a batter (Exception 7-3-5 Penalty), 1. When the batter interferes with the catcher attempting to play on a runner, if an out does not result at the end of the catcher's throw, the ball shall become dead immediately.

This is not in the fed book.

[ricka56]

 

5-1-2 ART. 2 . . . It is a delayed dead ball when: a. there is interference by a batter (Exception 7-3-5 Penalty), 1. When the batter interferes with the catcher attempting to play on a runner, if an out does not result at the end of the catcher's throw, the ball shall become dead immediately.

This is not in the fed book.

 

Yeah, it is in the delayed dead ball section 5-1-2. Says when play goes from delayed to dead ball when F2's throw doesn't result in an out. Without this part, the 7-3-5 enforcement/penalty is ambiguous.

[24sdad]

 

5-1-2 ART. 2 . . . It is a delayed dead ball when: a. there is interference by a batter (Exception 7-3-5 Penalty), 1. When the batter interferes with the catcher attempting to play on a runner, if an out does not result at the end of the catcher's throw, the ball shall become dead immediately.

This is not in the fed book.

 

Well, its on page 37 on my 2013 NFHS rule book and what I posted above in a cut and paste from the 2014 NFHS rule book off Aribiter, so I don't know what to tell you.

[JaxRolo]

Found it, Thanks.

 

Again I am not arguing this. I would make the same call. Sorry if I am not phrasing it correctly.

 

Only question I have now is:

 

Was F2 actually throwing to 2nd? What if it was a designed play for the fielder to cut-off the throw and get R3 at Home?

 

Just seems like we are punishing the Defense for an Offensive mistake.

[kanedog]

If the throw was meant to be cut off then the 'end of the catcher's throw' would be at cut off.  Since there wasn't an out recorded at that action, the ball is dead.

[ricka56]

Only question I have now is:

 

Was F2 actually throwing to 2nd? What if it was a designed play for the fielder to cut-off the throw and get R3 at Home?

 

Just seems like we are punishing the Defense for an Offensive mistake.

If you don't think F2 is making a play on R1, then I suppose you could choose not call interference and let the play play out, but that might (likely) come back to bite you in the arse if the defense messes up the play. I wouldn't do it. If you call interference, then the play is dead when the throw doesn't go through (at least the defense gets one out and nobody advances/scores).

[conbo61]

It seems to me that one of an umpire's most effective phrases to shut down an argument starts with "By rule...."

Therefore "By rule if an out does not result at the end of the catcher's throw, the ball shall become dead immediately." (5-2-a-1).

I don't make 'em, I just enforce 'em.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[Rich Ives]

This is what I found:

 

ART. 5 . . . Interfere with the catcher's fielding or throwing by:

a. leaning over home plate,

b. stepping out of the batter's box,

c. making any other movement, including backswing interference, which hinders actions at home plate or the catcher's attempt to play on a runner, or

d. failing to make a reasonable effort to vacate a congested area when there is a throw to home plate and there is time for the batter to move away.

PENALTY: When there are two outs, the batter is out. When there are not two outs and the runner is advancing to home plate, if the runner is tagged out, the ball remains live and interfer­ence is ignored. Otherwise, the ball is dead and the runner is called out. When an attempt to put out a runner at any other base is unsuccessful, the ­batter is out and all runners must return to bases occupied at the time of the pitch. If the pitch is a third strike and in the umpire's judgment interference prevents a possible ­double play (additional outs), two may be ruled out.

 

What I take from what I highlighted in red is that the correct answer is a. because a runner was put out.

 

What say you!

 

 

The first attempt ("an attempt") was unsuccessful. You only get one try.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

 

@JaxRolo - the inference is on the CATCHER'S attempt to retire a runner (any runner). The initial throw by f2. Cross reference the rule on Umpire Int.

I agree with you and Grayhawk but the wording on the rule has me wondering. I don't believe it says initial throw.

 

It does say "other base", though. A throw back home is not "another" base.

[Pete Peterson Sr]

I know this is a FED question but in OBR, B is the answer.  Unless F2's initial throw retires the runner at 2B, no runners may advance.  If he did, then the INT is ignored as if it didn't happen.

6.06c Exception- Batter is not out if any runner attempting to advance is put out...

[UmpTTS43]

Food for thought. You said R1 R3 double steal. If R3 is attempting to advance when BI occurs you can call R3 out for the BI. If R3 commits home after the BI and subsequent throw to 2nd, you now get the batter and return runners per the op.

[spiritump]

I have ---A    since the throw from F2 was cut off there was no play on the runner from first so no INT.  I am now going to look for my FED   rule/case book to see if I am correct--first time for everything