Biogenesis debacle

[Umpire in Chief]

Here we go again. 

 

Now apparently MLB has delivered the list of those who are going to be banned/suspended to the players union.

 

Now according to a morning sports talk radio show (and we know how accurate they can be) Members of the MLBPU have inundated the Union with requests not to spend their money to fight for certain players and Alex Rodriguez specifically.

 

Additionally earlier this week the same local sports radio show mentioned something about Rodriquez being investigated by federal authorities for attempting to hire or bribe somebody to destroy evidence related to the Biogenesis investigation. 

 

IMO break out the ban hammer and ban them all.  

 

[BRUMP]

as both a baseball fan and a yankee fan im rooting hard for arod to get the boot for life!!

[Umpire in Chief]

A-Rod is of course getting the spotlight, but it is the whole lot of them. 

[UmpJM]

My question is, if the allegations about A-Rod prove true (as I suspect they will), will they stop calling them "Performance Enhancing Drugs" and just start calling them "Drugs"?

 

JM

[BigUmpire]

OK here we go.

 

I will get lambasted for this post BUT:

Let’s establish what MLB is NOW

It is an entertainment industry NOW.

The players are NOW entertainers that entertain us by playing baseball.

Are the members of WWF and MMA athletes?

They are all grown men.

When baseball was in a hole Sosa and McGuire brought it back JUICED!

There only a few hundred MLB players.

 

I am a big fan of John McCain BUT to hold governmental hearings on this subject is stupid with all of the other problems we have.

Are we holding hearings on of the other entertainers, Lindsay Lohan, Brittney Spears and lots of other entertainers that CHILDREN LOOK UP TO that routinely alter their bodies with drugs and surgery?

 

I have a sister in law that remarked on how terrible women getting cosmetic surgery was.

I asked her the question†Would you ever alter your body solely for cosmetic purposes?

Of course he answer was “absolutely not!†my response was “Then why did you pierce your ears?â€

 

Would we rather watch an actress that is shapely or just plain? She is an entertainer.

If a young person works out and follows a special diet will his muscle mass will increase?

 

Mariano Rivera is one of the best and classiest men to have played the game BUT is ugly as homemade soap? Did we watch him for his looks?

The “product†of baseball is seeing these men do amazing things with their bodies.

 

Where do we draw the line?

I am not sure.

JUST trying to stir it up.

Wade in boys!

 

BTW: I am drug tested ,PEDS as well as others) every 30 days OR randomly (hair follicle test) and will be suspended and probably terminated for a positive test. I have people’s lives in my hands routinely

[Thunderheads]

my question is .... what else did the Biogenesis Lab offer?  What was it known as?  It wasn't known as a "PED" clinic, right?

[BigUmpire]

my question is .... what else did the Biogenesis Lab offer?  What was it known as?  It wasn't known as a "PED" clinic, right?

Looking to score something dude?       

[GoodOldGus]

As an avid baseball fan (obviously), I could really care less if the players on on PED's etc.  BUT....if MLB wants to clean up the game, then they need to implement an actual zero-tolerance policy, like they've done with gambling.  That paves the way for a clean future for the game......suspending players for the PAST does nothing for the future.  At this point, the risk is still worth the reward. 

[umpstu]

OK here we go.

 

I will get lambasted for this post BUT:

Let’s establish what MLB is NOW

It is an entertainment industry NOW.

The players are NOW entertainers that entertain us by playing baseball.

Are the members of WWF and MMA athletes?

They are all grown men.

When baseball was in a hole Sosa and McGuire brought it back JUICED!

There only a few hundred MLB players.

 

I am a big fan of John McCain BUT to hold governmental hearings on this subject is stupid with all of the other problems we have.

Are we holding hearings on of the other entertainers, Lindsay Lohan, Brittney Spears and lots of other entertainers that CHILDREN LOOK UP TO that routinely alter their bodies with drugs and surgery?

 

I have a sister in law that remarked on how terrible women getting cosmetic surgery was.

I asked her the question†Would you ever alter your body solely for cosmetic purposes?

Of course he answer was “absolutely not!†my response was “Then why did you pierce your ears?â€

 

Would we rather watch an actress that is shapely or just plain? She is an entertainer.

If a young person works out and follows a special diet will his muscle mass will increase?

 

Mariano Rivera is one of the best and classiest men to have played the game BUT is ugly as homemade soap? Did we watch him for his looks?

The “product†of baseball is seeing these men do amazing things with their bodies.

 

Where do we draw the line?

I am not sure.

JUST trying to stir it up.

Wade in boys!

 

BTW: I am drug tested ,PEDS as well as others) every 30 days OR randomly (hair follicle test) and will be suspended and probably terminated for a positive test. I have people’s lives in my hands routinely

You hit the nail on the head. Remember chicks dig the long ball commercial? I said the same thing a long time ago. Steroids brought people back to baseball and if you say you didn't know about it, you are just denying it. I'm not saying it is a good thing to do, it most certainly is not. But, quite possibly some players took them to heal quicker and get back on the field. I've received steroids before. And, for crying out loud, how the hell did Brady Anderson hit 50 home runs and this year, all of a sudden Chris Davis is just killing the ball?

[umpstu]

As an avid baseball fan (obviously), I could really care less if the players on on PED's etc.  BUT....if MLB wants to clean up the game, then they need to implement an actual zero-tolerance policy, like they've done with gambling.  That paves the way for a clean future for the game......suspending players for the PAST does nothing for the future.  At this point, the risk is still worth the reward. 

Would much rather see steroid use than gambling. There is a reason Pete is banned for life. Would love to see those files. Gambling on baseball while a manager. "Damn, I'm in a jam. I'll bet against my team and not let one of my stud players in the game." Now, that's a bad scenario right there. I know he said he didn't do that, but he also said he didn't gamble on baseball.

[CentralOhioUmp30]

As a self-admitted Yankee hater, it sucks that his best case scenario is to miss the rest of this year and next. Too bad. He's the best player the Yankees' opponents have at this point of his career.

[CentralOhioUmp30]

As an avid baseball fan (obviously), I could really care less if the players on on PED's etc. BUT....if MLB wants to clean up the game, then they need to implement an actual zero-tolerance policy, like they've done with gambling. That paves the way for a clean future for the game......suspending players for the PAST does nothing for the future. At this point, the risk is still worth the reward.

Would much rather see steroid use than gambling. There is a reason Pete is banned for life. Would love to see those files. Gambling on baseball while a manager. "Damn, I'm in a jam. I'll bet against my team and not let one of my stud players in the game." Now, that's a bad scenario right there. I know he said he didn't do that, but he also said he didn't gamble on baseball. Quite honestly, I don't care if he beat his wife and murdered someone. He's the all-time hit leader and it's a travesty he isn't in the Hall of Fame. You get into the Hall of Fame based on your performance as a result of your God-given abilities. Until you remove guys like Ty Cobb from the HOF there's no excuse to keep Rose out.

[Jocko]

Teams need to include a contract clause that makes it a breach to test positive for any banned substances. Then A-roid won't be paid millions to not play.

[BigUmpire]

Teams need to include a contract clause that makes it a breach to test positive for any banned substances. Then A-roid won't be paid millions to not play.

Only if all the baseball whore owners agree to do the same.

Dopers like A-Rod would find an owner who does not not care about this crap, only putting butts in seats and the post season money.

A league policy of ZERO tolerence=gone forever is the only way to prevent this.

First positive- Have fun playing in Korea FOREVER!

[Kevin_K]

 

 

Would much rather see steroid use than gambling. There is a reason Pete is banned for life. Would love to see those files. Gambling on baseball while a manager. "Damn, I'm in a jam. I'll bet against my team and not let one of my stud players in the game." Now, that's a bad scenario right there. I know he said he didn't do that, but he also said he didn't gamble on baseball.

Quite honestly, I don't care if he beat his wife and murdered someone. He's the all-time hit leader and it's a travesty he isn't in the Hall of Fame. You get into the Hall of Fame based on your performance as a result of your God-given abilities. Until you remove guys like Ty Cobb from the HOF there's no excuse to keep Rose out.

 

 

I was at the HOF today. Prominently displayed in the locker area of the museum are the rules posted in every clubhouse and dugout in every major league park. Gambling has its own section. The prohibition on gambling is explicitly detailed for all participants, for obvious reasons.

 

Pete Rose violated the cardinal rule of baseball that goes to the root of the integrity of the game.

 

He agreed to a ban. He claims it was temporary. Unfortunately, Bart Giamatti is dead and cannot refute Rose's claims. The agreement indicates that Rose can apply for reinstatement. He did. The commissioner had decided multiple times not to act. Rose has since admitted to gambling on baseball. Seems like the commissioner made the right decision. Hence, the ban will likely remain in effect until Rose has passed on.

 

As far as Cobb goes, it is intellectually dishonest to judge a man’s behavior using today social customs and mores. Cobb was a racist. It is likely every other player in the major leagues at the time was. Some of the most revered men in American history owned slaves, That is far worse using today’s standards to judge their behavior, yet Jefferson, Washington, and Andrew Jackson all adorn American currency. Should their status in America’s pantheon of heroes by taken away because they acted as their society presumed they should?

 

Cobb belongs in the Hall because his behavior, while considered reprehensible today, did not undermine the foundation of the core of the game we love. Rose agreed to the ban and it should stand.

[Jocko]

And Arod, Mcguire, Bonds, Palmero and all the other dopers can go to the HOF. And pay admission like the rest of us.

[carolinablue]

OK., here's the reason I think this PED. use needs to be stopped. Like others have said, I like to watch the game and see good baseball played and it really doesn't matter how they are doing it. However, there is something that does matter and that is the kids. You hear a lot of people complain about the ridiculous salaries that professional athletes make and I never have really understood that. Yes, in the big picture athletes are not near as importatnt  as teachers and police officers and other professions that give real value to society but I think it's damned great that I live in a country that if you pay your dues and have the skill, you can make a fortune playing a game. It creates a dream.

 

Almost every kid that plays youth baseball has that same dream to one day make it, and we all know that only the smallest percentage ever will, but the dream is still there. If the one's they are chasing are using PEDs, then that will force the hand of the one's trying to get there too. To me it creates a viscious cycle. PEDs don't just make you good at baseball, there are other effects too which are negative and some are still unknown. So in a nutshell, I'm not so much worried about what MLB players are doing  as much as I am about keeping the dream pure.

[CentralOhioUmp30]

Would much rather see steroid use than gambling. There is a reason Pete is banned for life. Would love to see those files. Gambling on baseball while a manager. "Damn, I'm in a jam. I'll bet against my team and not let one of my stud players in the game." Now, that's a bad scenario right there. I know he said he didn't do that, but he also said he didn't gamble on baseball.

Quite honestly, I don't care if he beat his wife and murdered someone. He's the all-time hit leader and it's a travesty he isn't in the Hall of Fame. You get into the Hall of Fame based on your performance as a result of your God-given abilities. Until you remove guys like Ty Cobb from the HOF there's no excuse to keep Rose out.

I was at the HOF today. Prominently displayed in the locker area of the museum are the rules posted in every clubhouse and dugout in every major league park. Gambling has its own section. The prohibition on gambling is explicitly detailed for all participants, for obvious reasons.

Pete Rose violated the cardinal rule of baseball that goes to the root of the integrity of the game.

He agreed to a ban. He claims it was temporary. Unfortunately, Bart Giamatti is dead and cannot refute Rose's claims. The agreement indicates that Rose can apply for reinstatement. He did. The commissioner had decided multiple times not to act. Rose has since admitted to gambling on baseball. Seems like the commissioner made the right decision. Hence, the ban will likely remain in effect until Rose has passed on.

As far as Cobb goes, it is intellectually dishonest to judge a man’s behavior using today social customs and mores. Cobb was a racist. It is likely every other player in the major leagues at the time was. Some of the most revered men in American history owned slaves, That is far worse using today’s standards to judge their behavior, yet Jefferson, Washington, and Andrew Jackson all adorn American currency. Should their status in America’s pantheon of heroes by taken away because they acted as their society presumed they should?

Cobb belongs in the Hall because his behavior, while considered reprehensible today, did not undermine the foundation of the core of the game we love. Rose agreed to the ban and it should stand.

Completely agree with Cobb. I was using him as an exaggerated example.

I tend to believe that Rose thought it was not a life-time ban. Who would voluntarily accept a permanent ban?

I also completely agree that it was reprehensible for him to gamble on games. My point is that has nothing to do with his baseball performance, so being excluded from the Hall doesn't make sense to me. I don't know what an appropriate punishment is, but I don't think this is it.

[MadMax]

My opinion is that the lines are exceptionally grey and blurred, at that.

Before I begin, I'll note I'm using Braun as the _example_, but I'm not defending his actions or statements up to present.

There is an exceptionally twisted dichotomy at play here in our everyday culture vs. sports culture. Say you're a truck loader/driver, and that's your profession, your livelihood. Say you suffer an injury, such as a strained back or an abdominal tear, and it _really hurts_ to work. Your brain is telling you "You need to rest this!", but your dependents, your supervisor, your customers, heck, maybe even your stupid pride-and-passion is telling you, "We need you out there!" Maybe even your employer only pays for performance / productivity, or worse, if you report time-off for injury, they'll replace you with someone else. Granted, you don't lose your job, per say, but you lose your route, and "your truck", and the professional relationships you formed with customers and suppliers because some new "kid" is running your route while you're recovering from a bad back. You come back to work, and it isn't the same... Your supervisor puts you on a new route, an "easier" route.

You seek out a doctor, and it might not even be a company doctor, who listens to your plight, and says, "You know, the only way to repair this tissue is to use __________." And you know what you do? You take it, and you feel _much better_ soon, good as new, never felt better. Heck, you're even doing so well at work, in no time, you've got your route back, and your productivity metrics make your employer happy. You're paying your bills, paying your taxes, life's good.

Our culture accepts that, wholeheartedly. In fact, our culture may have even propelled you to go see that doctor in the first place, with all the advertising for this drug and that drug, and this new procedure, or that new treatment. The pressure is palpable for "getting back out there and getting after it". Chase the American dream, spare no expense... and all that.

Okay, so we have these _professional_ (as in, for pay, their livelihood) ballplayers...

See the disconnect?

When people ask me my _opinion_ on Braun, this is what I offer... That he took something so as to overcome these nagging, play-hampering injuries these guys suffer during a 162+ game season, _not so different_ from any other laborer taking, nay even being prescribed, a medication (when _does_ the word "steroid" take on an evil connotation? When it's not prescribed? That's like calling a boat a bus, just because it's out of the water. It's still a boat.) to get himself or herself back to productive form. It's those of the Alex Rodriguez / Mark McGwire / Barry Bonds -type that did so to overly enhance their productivity and altered their bodies in doing so that really "stand out" and draw ire (rightly so).

But even in today's culture, you can buy 5-Hour Energy from just about anywhere to "keep you more alert" at work. Do we really know what that cocktail will do to you, long term? Or worse, do we really know what 5HE will do to a developing adolescent or preteen, in quantities that can't be adequately foreseen?

My opinion on Braun (and guys like him) is he can do a great deal of good, and a small step of reputation rebuilding and trust restitution, if he comes out and says _why_ he took the path he did. Blow the lid off this thing. It would not condone or pardon his actions, but it sure would expose that hypocrisy that is rampant in our society.

[umpstu]

My opinion is that the lines are exceptionally grey and blurred, at that.

Before I begin, I'll note I'm using Braun as the _example_, but I'm not defending his actions or statements up to present.

There is an exceptionally twisted dichotomy at play here in our everyday culture vs. sports culture. Say you're a truck loader/driver, and that's your profession, your livelihood. Say you suffer an injury, such as a strained back or an abdominal tear, and it _really hurts_ to work. Your brain is telling you "You need to rest this!", but your dependents, your supervisor, your customers, heck, maybe even your stupid pride-and-passion is telling you, "We need you out there!" Maybe even your employer only pays for performance / productivity, or worse, if you report time-off for injury, they'll replace you with someone else. Granted, you don't lose your job, per say, but you lose your route, and "your truck", and the professional relationships you formed with customers and suppliers because some new "kid" is running your route while you're recovering from a bad back. You come back to work, and it isn't the same... Your supervisor puts you on a new route, an "easier" route.

You seek out a doctor, and it might not even be a company doctor, who listens to your plight, and says, "You know, the only way to repair this tissue is to use __________." And you know what you do? You take it, and you feel _much better_ soon, good as new, never felt better. Heck, you're even doing so well at work, in no time, you've got your route back, and your productivity metrics make your employer happy. You're paying your bills, paying your taxes, life's good.

Our culture accepts that, wholeheartedly. In fact, our culture may have even propelled you to go see that doctor in the first place, with all the advertising for this drug and that drug, and this new procedure, or that new treatment. The pressure is palpable for "getting back out there and getting after it". Chase the American dream, spare no expense... and all that.

Okay, so we have these _professional_ (as in, for pay, their livelihood) ballplayers...

See the disconnect?

When people ask me my _opinion_ on Braun, this is what I offer... That he took something so as to overcome these nagging, play-hampering injuries these guys suffer during a 162+ game season, _not so different_ from any other laborer taking, nay even being prescribed, a medication (when _does_ the word "steroid" take on an evil connotation? When it's not prescribed? That's like calling a boat a bus, just because it's out of the water. It's still a boat.) to get himself or herself back to productive form. It's those of the Alex Rodriguez / Mark McGwire / Barry Bonds -type that did so to overly enhance their productivity and altered their bodies in doing so that really "stand out" and draw ire (rightly so).

But even in today's culture, you can buy 5-Hour Energy from just about anywhere to "keep you more alert" at work. Do we really know what that cocktail will do to you, long term? Or worse, do we really know what 5HE will do to a developing adolescent or preteen, in quantities that can't be adequately foreseen?

My opinion on Braun (and guys like him) is he can do a great deal of good, and a small step of reputation rebuilding and trust restitution, if he comes out and says _why_ he took the path he did. Blow the lid off this thing. It would not condone or pardon his actions, but it sure would expose that hypocrisy that is rampant in our society.

Mark McGwire was always a big boy who could mash. He might have become big, but some of that can also be attributed to weights and just putting on weight as you get older. It doesn't matter to me, it was great fun to watch him and Sosa during that season. He also had a whole lot of those little nagging injuries. And, something else to think about. It was not tested for when he was playing. I still cannot see why congress felt it so important that they become involved.

Here is an interesting eye opener;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banned_substances_in_baseball_in_the_United_States

[mstaylor]

I think they need to come down hard on PEDs in sports. Are there reasons for Drs to prescribe steroids, but if a player needs them to recoup then it needs to be reported to the team and monitored by the team. CONGRESS HAS NO BUSINESS IN THIS AT ALL!. 

Mcquire is a prime example of a player that always had good numbers but was hurt a lot. I'm sure the drugs were prescribed to overcome those constant injuries but developed into an enhancing program. There are other players that just want to get an edge. 

[dumbdumb]

Posted 26 December 2012 - 11:47 PM

Anti-drug abuse act of 1986 and 1988 both include steroids and this has nothing to do with baseball.

Fay Vincent mentioned they were illegal in baseball all the way back in 1991, in a memo sent out to the teams.

Also.

Legal status




Various compounds with anabolic and androgenic effects, their relation with anabolic steroids
The legal status of anabolic steroids varies from country to country: some have stricter controls on their use or prescription than others though in many countries they are not illegal. In the U.S., anabolic steroids are currently listed as Schedule III controlled substances under the Controlled Substances Act, which makes simply possessing of such substances without a prescription, first offense, a federal crime punishable by up to one year in prison.

Nevertheless, anabolic steroids were added to Schedule III of the Controlled Substances Act in the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 1990.^[106]

 

 

mlb memorandums history from the Mitchell report--added 1/1/13

 

In May 1985, Commissioner Ueberroth established a mandatory drug testing program covering all employees in the major and minor leagues, including umpires and minor league players. The program tested for drugs of abuse and amphetamines but did not test for steroids or other performance enhancing substances. Initial positive tests were to be met with treatment rather than discipline.¹¹⁸

 

.        1991: Fay Vincent Adds Steroids to Baseball's Drug Polic In September 1989, Francis T. ("Fay") Vincent was elected to succeed A. Bartlett Giamatti as Commissioner, after Giamatti's sudden death. Vincent was the first Commissioner to expressly include anabolic steroids among the substances prohibited under baseball's drug policy, which he did in the June 1991 version of the memorandum.¹³⁰ Steroids were added to the drug policy at that time, apparently as a result of the enactment of the Anabolic Steroids Control Act of 1990. Under that statute, anabolic steroids had been reclassified as Schedule III controlled substances, and the illegal use of them became subject to substantially increased criminal penalties.

 

Penalties

• Possession of steroids without a prescription carries a federal penalty of up to one year in prison and a fine of at least $1,000 for a first offense.

  Dealing or trafficking steroids carries a maximum federal penalty of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine for a first offense. The penalty and fine double on a second offense. Many states have also adopted separate fines and penalties.

   

   

  Nice little article about the juicers

   

  http://www.miaminewt...est-names/full/

 

For both the above and the below. Each player has to make a decision whether to abide by this rule or not and suffer any and all consequences, fair or unfair in their own personal minds, that may come their way for violating this rule. One only has to look in the mirror to see whom to blame for any consequences.

 

and for PR

                            MAJOR LEAGUE RULES
                                 Rule 21
                               MISCONDUCT

(a) MISCONDUCT IN PLAYING BASEBALL.  Any player or person connected with a
club who shall promise or agree to lose, or to attempt to lose, or to fail
to give his best efforts towards the winning of any baseball game with
which he is or may be in any way concerned; or who shall intentionally
fail to give his best efforts towards the winning of any such baseball
game, or who shall solicit or attempt to induce any player or person
connected with a club to lose, or attempt to lose, or to fail to give his
best efforts towards the winning of any baseball game with which such 
other player or person is or may be in any way connected; or who, being
solicited by any person, shall fail to inform his Major League President
and the Commissioner.

(b) GIFT FOR DEFEATING COMPETING CLUB.  Any player or person connected
with a club who shall offer or give any gift or reward to a player or
person connected with another club for services rendered or supposed to
be or to have been rendered in defeating or attempting to defeat a
competing club, and any player or person connected with a club who
shall solicit or accept from a player connected with another club any
gifts or reward for any such services rendered, or supposed to have 
been rendered, or who having been offered any such gift or reward, 
shall fail to inform his League  President or the Commissioner 
immediately of such offer, and of all facts and circumstances therewith,
shall be declared ineligible for not less than three (3) years.

(c) GIFTS TO UMPIRES  Any player or person connected with a club, who
shall give, or offer to give, any gift or reward to an umpire for services
rendered, or supposed to be or to have been rendered, in defeating or
attempting to defeat a competing club, or for the umpire's decision on
anything connected with the playing of a baseball game; and any umpire
who shall render, or promise or agree to render, any such decision 
otherwise than on its merits, or who shall solicit or accept such gifts
or reward, or having been solicited to render any such decision
otherwise than on its merits, shall fail to inform the League President
or the Commissioner immediately of such offer or solicitation, and all
facts and circumstances therewith, shall be declared permanently ineligible.

(d) BETTING ON BALL GAMES.  Any player, umpire, or club official or 
employee, *******who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in
connection with which the bettor has "no duty to perform" shall be declared
ineligible for "one year"******.

   Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee,***** who shall
bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game "in connection with which
the bettor has a duty to perform" shall be "declared permanently ineligible"*****.

(e) VIOLENCE OR MISCONDUCT IN INTERLEAGUE GAMES.  In case of any physical
attack or other violence upon an umpire by a player, or by an umpire upon
a player, or of other misconduct by an umpire or a player, during or in
connection with any interleague Major League game or any exhibition game
of a Major League Club with a club or team not a member of the same league,
the Commissioner shall impose upon the offender or offenders such fine,
suspension, ineligibility or other penalty, as the facts may warrant in
the judgement of the Commissioner.

(f) OTHER MISCONDUCT.  Nothing herein contained shall be construed as
exclusively defining or otherwise limiting acts, transactions, practices
or conduct not to be in the best interests of Baseball; and any and all
other acts, transactions, practices or conduct not to be in the best
interests of Baseball are prohibited and shall be subject to such
penalties, including permanent ineligibility, as the facts in the
particular case may warrant.

(g) RULE TO BE KEPT POSTED.  A printed copy of this Rule shall be kept
posted in each clubhouse. 

Bet on other teams and get a 1 year penalty---bet on your own team (insider trading) permanent ineligibility. It is a choice each individual has to make with 2 distinct penalties for getting caught. Only the permanently ineligible classified individuals are not eligible for HOF consideration. So, do you want to bet on other teams and be declared ineligible for 1 year and be put back on the list for the HOF or do you want to bet on your own team and be put on the permanently ineligible list for the HOF. Choice is yours.

 

This is posted in every MLB clubhouse and has been for years and years and years.

[mstaylor]

Rule 21 is the most horribly written document I have read recently. 

[Jocko]

A-fraud's mouth got him in trouble again. He claims a conspiracy to keep him off the field. Monday MLB plans to suspend him for the rest of this season and all of next. Mike Schmidt says A-roid is the perfect one to make an example of. I agree.

[mstaylor]

Ok, so an umpire fails two test and is released, do the same for players. It's like a tournament, two and out.