"Where Was That"

[zoops]

One of the most annoying things I hear from coaches while I am PU is on a close pitch, they yell from the dugout "Where was that?" or "Where did that miss?"  Should I answer them, ignore them, tell the catcher where it missed?  I don't feel like it's good practice to have to explain ball/strike calls to the dugout, but it seems like it could be a little overzealous to consider this arguing balls and strikes. I could see some rats saying "I was asking my catcher" if you came out and warned them.  What do ya'll do?

 

Don't you love it when they yell out and ask their catcher where it missed and the catcher gives them a shrug of the shoulders too?

[Thunderheads]

if it's asked in an appropriate manner ....... "hey Jeff, where'd that miss please?"    (yes, I've been asked like that before) ... I'll tell him .....

 

anything different than that, ...I tell the catcher to tell him .....

[OHUMP]

if it's asked in an appropriate manner ....... "hey Jeff, where'd that miss please?"    (yes, I've been asked like that before) ... I'll tell him .....

 

anything different than that, ...I tell the catcher to tell him .....

+1 but it also depends how often they are asking they can be as respectful as they want but if they ask on every close pitch I am not having that all day.

[Thunderheads]

 

if it's asked in an appropriate manner ....... "hey Jeff, where'd that miss please?"    (yes, I've been asked like that before) ... I'll tell him .....

 

anything different than that, ...I tell the catcher to tell him .....

+1 but it also depends how often they are asking they can be as respectful as they want but if they ask on every close pitch I am not having that all day.

 

^^^^^^^^^^YES! THIS TOO!

[JaxRolo]

Outside my strike zone coach

[HeadHunterLA]

I don't mind a couple of times if they ask right.  After that they go on permanent ignore.

[Dannytheman]

I read it here once, and I liked it. When asked, say "It was in the ball zone." When asked where is that? Say, "Anything not in my strike zone."

[ricka56]

y'all realize I hope, that this is coach's way of complaining about your 'ball' call doncha. He's not allowed to argue B/S, but he has this plausibly (so he thinks) deniable way of arguing B/S.

 

If he asks early in the game, I ignore it and assume he's asking F2...careful what you say, F2. If he insists on me answering I'll remind him that he's not allowed to argue B/S (knowing that his plausible (to him) denial is sure to follow, "I'm not arguing, I'm just asking". Then as concisely/diplomatically as I can, I will tell him that his arguing denial is BS and I'm not playing his "where was that" game.

 

If he asks it once late in the game (and he hasn't been a PITA), I might tell him. But mostly the response is out/inside. If you say up/down, they might have more to say. In/Out they can't see. They still ain't gonna like it, but you don't give them any ammo. But mostly I don't play the "where was that" game.  

[stl_ump]

I might turn to them and show them my hands that are about 12" apart.  They usually get the idea.

[SoCal Lurker]

y'all realize I hope, that this is coach's way of complaining about your 'ball' call doncha. He's not allowed to argue B/S, but he has this plausibly (so he thinks) deniable way of arguing B/S.

 

 

 

Often, but not always.  In my limited career as a daddy-coach, on the occasions I asked, which were uncommon, it was so I could talk to my catcher about targets.  I never found any upside in arguing balls and strikes, or any other judgment call for that matter. 

 

(OK, I confess, I yelled once -- startled, mostly, when F5 blatantly (albeit perhaps obliviously) obstructed my runner who was trying to make the turn at third, and I blurted "C'mon, that's obstruction!" from the dugout more loudly than I would have liked.  U turned and took a step towards the dugout when play ended, and I simply said, "Yeah, I know, there was a play going on at first and you've got no chance to see that play at third with one ump, we're all good."  And U was fine.  [And no, I did not start teaching my F5 to deliberately obstruct knowing the call would get missed . . . .])

[renegadewolf]

I've so very often wanted to say "It missed the strike zone coach" but I often ignore the coach because he isn't going to do anything to help the pitcher zone in, i tell the catcher where it is missing however.  I don't engage in veiled attempts at luring me into an argument over balls and strikes.  as has been mentioned, this situation can only end in tears

[BigUmpire]

Outside my strike zone coach

The best so far!

[mstaylor]

I generally just show a hand motion for in or out. To often, warning.

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[MidAmUmp]

It's a legitimate question which deserves a legitimate answer. If they want to debate the answer, now they're arguing balls and strikes and I think we know where that leads...right???

Now, they're not going to ask on every pitch. Of course if they're asking on every pitch...maybe you need to do some self evaluating or get your partner in there to find out if you're too tight.

Personally I tell the dugouts before they ask. On a close pitch I'll say "Ball!" then look towards their dugout and say "That's in -or- out." I very seldom have anyone question a location since I give them the answer. In fact, this year, I didn't have to issue a ball/strike warning. Unreal. No ejections, no B/S warnings.

This works for me, but it might not work for you.

[BuckeyeMike]

On a "big pitch" I'll give location, just to pre-empt the BS that's soon to follow. 

 

On a some-what related note, do you ever tell the catcher, "that's a 50/50 ball. Right on the border, could have gone either way."     ?????

 

Right, wrong, or egregious, I've done this.....and it's been met with the catcher almost always agreeing and usually admitting, "yeah that was close". 

 

Again, right or wrong, i feel like this gives me credibility with the catcher.....showing him i'm human, that i understand i might have missed that close one, and that i'm looking closer at those 50/50 balls.

 

I need some good solid feedback on using this "phraseology" with catchers.  lol

[zoops]

I'm not explaining my calls to the bench on my own.  I can see telling the catcher that it's close, but saying that it could have gone either way...kind of implies to him that you are guessing.  

[mstaylor]

A better term for a fifty- fifty ball, strike. Of it is that close, cal it a strike.

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[grayhawk]

It's a legitimate question which deserves a legitimate answer. If they want to debate the answer, now their arguing balls and strikes and I think we know where that leads...right???

Now, their not going to ask on every pitch. Of course if they're asking on every pitch...maybe you need to do some self evaluating or get your partner in there to find out if you're too tight.

Personally I tell the dugouts before they ask. On a close pitch I'll say "Ball!" then look towards their dugout and say "That's in -or- out." I very seldom have anyone question a location since I give them the answer. In fact, this year, I didn't have to issue a ball/strike warning. Unreal. No ejections, no B/S warnings.

This works for me, but it might not work for you.

I do this as well and also had no B/S warnings or ejections this year. I think it's especially important on inside pitches. Those fool them more than any other pitch.

[carolinablue]

It's a legitimate question which deserves a legitimate answer.  If they want to debate the answer, now their arguing balls and strikes and I think we know where that leads...right???

 

Now, their not going to ask on every pitch.  Of course if they're asking on every pitch...maybe you need to do some self evaluating or get your partner in there to find out if you're too tight.

 

Personally I tell the dugouts before they ask.  On a close pitch I'll say "Ball!" then look towards their dugout and say "That's in -or- out."  I very seldom have anyone question a location since I give them the answer.  In fact, this year, I didn't have to issue a ball/strike warning.  Unreal.  No ejections, no B/S warnings.

 

This works for me, but it might not work for you.

 

 

It works for me too on close pitches. Very seldom get a question on location. I know some won't agree.

[MidAmUmp]

On a "big pitch" I'll give location, just to pre-empt the BS that's soon to follow. 

 

On a some-what related note, do you ever tell the catcher, "that's a 50/50 ball. Right on the border, could have gone either way."     ?????

 

Right, wrong, or egregious, I've done this.....and it's been met with the catcher almost always agreeing and usually admitting, "yeah that was close". 

 

Again, right or wrong, i feel like this gives me credibility with the catcher.....showing him i'm human, that i understand i might have missed that close one, and that i'm looking closer at those 50/50 balls.

 

I need some good solid feedback on using this "phraseology" with catchers.  lol

@BuckeyeMike - I don't like that phraseology.  Telling them it's close is one thing.  Telling them it's 50/50 is another.  However, I know what you're trying to say and you're on the right track.  It's like a bang/bang play at 1st.  Are you going to tell a coach "it was 50/50, could have gone either way"?  Most likely you're going to say something like - it was close but I had the ball beating him -or- it was close but I had him just beating it.  Same thing on a pitch.  "It's close, bring it in just a little bit and I can get it."

 

Here's one I've started using when a catcher tells me he thought the pitch was a strike - "Do you want me to call that on you?"  Usually they say no.

[umpstu]

I will usually tell the catcher to let the coach know it was either in or out. The coach can see up and down. After the catcher tells him, I will then tell the catcher if I felt I missed it. I will then proceed to start cussing at myself for screwing up a call and it generally gets a response from the catcher to take it easy on myself. They like to know you care and will bear down so as to not miss those pitches. 

 

As far as 50/50 on a ball strike, that is akin to screaming ball on a pitch that is close to the strike zone. Why sell a ball when you can call a strike? I try not to change the level of volume of my ball call, no matter how close to the plate. It's a ball, you saw it. Ho hum. How boring. Throw a strike so I can get a little more animated behind the plate.

[BuckeyeMike]

This is all good feedback....i appreciate it.

 

I think i'm going to try some different things in Legion ball coming up soon. 

 

1.  Like @mstaylor mentions, if it's that close, call it a darn strike!

2.  Absolutely no more telling the catcher that it was a 50/50 ball, because as @zoops mentioned, it implies i'm guessing.

3.  Slow down so that i don't immediately regret what i called the pitch, thus making me feel like it was a 50/50 ball.  (By George this might be the root cause!)

[RichMSN]

I've been using "Ball - In" and "Ball - Out" on selected pitches for the past few seasons.  Works well for me.  Don't do it on every pitch, obviously.

[HeadHunterLA]

I've been using "Ball - In" and "Ball - Out" on selected pitches for the past few seasons.  Works well for me.  Don't do it on every pitch, obviously.

 Yep, every now and then on the close ones this works well.

[zoops]

Thought I would bring this back as I thought of it during my game tonight.  Top of 9th, home team up by 1 but had let a comfortable lead slip away, so they were getting tense. Runners on 1st and 2nd, full count, 2 outs, fastball that zips inside.  I am very confident that it was a ball, catcher freezes it for about 3 seconds which made me look bad.  As I'm saying to the catcher (who I've umpired a lot) "please don't show me up," the home team assistant coach takes about 3 steps out of his dugout, throws his arms up, and yells at the top of his lungs "where was that!?"  I turn and give a fairly unanimated ejection mechanic and say "you're gone."  I say no more as he starts to come toward me yelling a few cheap shots before the head coach corrals him and gets him out of there.  I suppose it could come off as a quick ejection, but I'm not sure I would tolerate that from a head coach, definitely not an assistant.  

 

They get the next batter out and win by 1...