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Out-overturned to safe on Obstruction

Thunderheads

By Thunderheads
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HeadHunterLA

HeadHunterLA

Posted
Posted

 

Does the runner reach first base safely without the obstruction?  I don't think so.  I have nothing here.

Does the Obstruction happen before the out?  I have it as so. 

 

 

Guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.

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Dannytheman
Dannytheman

I can always do that, even when you are wrong.       Just kidding. 

cyclonehokiece
cyclonehokiece

And at 11U, you are prepared for crap like this to happen.

JaxRolo
JaxRolo

Clear cut OBS. Should have been called immediately. But they got it right.

Dannytheman

Dannytheman

Posted
Posted

 

 

Does the runner reach first base safely without the obstruction?  I don't think so.  I have nothing here.

Does the Obstruction happen before the out?  I have it as so. 

 

 

Guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.

 

I can always do that, even when you are wrong.  :fuel:  

 

Just kidding.  :wave:

  • Like 3
HeadHunterLA

HeadHunterLA

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

Does the runner reach first base safely without the obstruction?  I don't think so.  I have nothing here.

Does the Obstruction happen before the out?  I have it as so. 

 

 

Guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.

 

I can always do that, even when you are wrong.  :fuel:  

 

Just kidding.  :wave:

 

 

Oh I have been wrong before!  I guess my philosophy has always been to let the play decide the outcome and not try and enforce something unless it is absolutely a violation.  But I see your point.  Does the pitcher impede the base runners progress towards first? Yes.  Is he safe at first without his progress being impeded?  I don't think so, which is why I would leave it alone.

grayhawk

grayhawk

Posted
Posted

Had a very similar play this season at an 11U game.  The play was closer in my case and I called the OBS.  Of course, I was in a better position because it was a one-man game.  :fuel:

cyclonehokiece

cyclonehokiece

Posted
Posted

Had a very similar play this season at an 11U game.  The play was closer in my case and I called the OBS.  Of course, I was in a better position because it was a one-man game.   :fuel:

And at 11U, you are prepared for crap like this to happen.

  • Like 2
Lindsay

Lindsay

Posted
Posted

I actually read that interaction the same way ump_24 did, as HW giving Wedge a lesson like he would at umpire school. As far as Type A OBS with a batter-runner obstructed before reaching 1st base, this is Case #1: ground ball to an infielder, call "Time" immediately, award BR 1st base. If this was Type B (e.g., runner obstructed enroute to second base with a play being made on BR at first base), you'd obviously keep play alive and then determine what would have happened with no OBS - OBS B is the "nullify the act" provision. OBS A has no "nullify the act" provision and requires the +1 base award (or, in this case, HP +1 = 1B).

Haid D' Salaami

Haid D' Salaami

Posted
Posted

I have OBS here all the way. I have read all the arguments, and watched the video replay 3 times now. The Pitcher impedes the runner from the basepath and blocks his access to the base.

I think the 1st base ump was watching the ball and force play, not paying attention to the pitcher standing in the base path. 

I like the reversal!

this is not a force play at 1st....

Haid D' Salaami

Haid D' Salaami

Posted
Posted

the Pitcher did nothing to stop the runner from reaching 1st... he would have been out anyways...But i know the rule..

 

but the question reminds.. why did the PU not do anything.. this is his call.

zm1283

zm1283

Posted
Posted

 

 

Oh I have been wrong before!  I guess my philosophy has always been to let the play decide the outcome and not try and enforce something unless it is absolutely a violation.  But I see your point.  Does the pitcher impede the base runners progress towards first? Yes.  Is he safe at first without his progress being impeded?  I don't think so, which is why I would leave it alone.

 

 

And by rule you would be wrong.

 

the Pitcher did nothing to stop the runner from reaching 1st... he would have been out anyways...But i know the rule..

 

but the question reminds.. why did the PU not do anything.. this is his call.

 

You might want to let Hunter know that then, since you're saying he's wrong.  

HeadHunterLA

HeadHunterLA

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

Oh I have been wrong before!  I guess my philosophy has always been to let the play decide the outcome and not try and enforce something unless it is absolutely a violation.  But I see your point.  Does the pitcher impede the base runners progress towards first? Yes.  Is he safe at first without his progress being impeded?  I don't think so, which is why I would leave it alone.

 

 

And by rule you would be wrong.

 

the Pitcher did nothing to stop the runner from reaching 1st... he would have been out anyways...But i know the rule..

 

but the question reminds.. why did the PU not do anything.. this is his call.

 

You might want to let Hunter know that then, since you're saying he's wrong.  

 

 

7.06 When obstruction occurs, the umpire shall call or signal "Obstruction." 

If a play is being made on the obstructed runner, or if the batterrunner is obstructed before he touches first base, the ball is dead and all runners shall advance, without liability to be put out, to the bases they would have reached, in the umpires judgment, if there had been no obstruction.

 

So in my opinion, if I remove the obstruction and I judge that the batter/runner would have still been out I am not awarding him first base.  Let's say the contact between batter/runner is 10 feet before the first base bag, contact occurs right before the throw is caught at first base for the out.  Do you still award first base??  Not on my field.

dumbdumb

dumbdumb

Posted
Posted

the Pitcher did nothing to stop the runner from reaching 1st... he would have been out anyways...But i know the rule..

 

but the question reminds.. why did the PU not do anything.. this is his call.

Don't leave me hanging here. How is this taught at the school?

 

Isn't the plate umpire immediately supposed to start signalling time and obstruction when it occurs, without worrying about whether or not the base umpire is starting or getting ready to start his out or safe call?

 

Would the school use a play like the pitcher coming over to field the ball at the line on a bunt and the ball is already past him and his momentum causes him to collide with the base runner running to first in the base line. At least that is a hypothetical that I can come up with, but that obstruction happens much further from the bag (more towards home plate) than this one did.

IABlue

IABlue

Posted
Posted

There's no way around the fact that that is a major screw-up by U1.  It's actually pretty brutal. and just gets worse and worse with every repeat viewing.

 

No harm no foul, though.

zm1283

zm1283

Posted
Posted

There's no way around the fact that that is a major screw-up by U1.  It's actually pretty brutal. and just gets worse and worse with every repeat viewing.

 

No harm no foul, though.

 

 

 

U1 had about 12 things going on at once.  You wouldn't have gotten the OBS either.  They got it right.

  • Like 1
noumpere

noumpere

Posted
Posted
There you have. That settles it!

 

That settles what they saw but it doesn't mean that what they saw was correct  and it doesn't cover who should have made the call and when.

 

I agree that U1 had too much going on to see this so should PU have made the call originally like on running lane interference or do we wait for a conference?

JaxRolo

JaxRolo

Posted
Posted
There you have. That settles it! That settles what they saw but it doesn't mean that what they saw was correct and it doesn't cover who should have made the call and when. I agree that U1 had too much going on to see this so should PU have made the call originally like on running lane interference or do we wait for a conference? I think optimally PU calls it. But I'm ok with a conference.
IABlue

IABlue

Posted
Posted

They got the call right therefore no screwup

LOL, keep telling yourself that.

 

This wasn't a pee wee rec ball game, it's the freaking major leagues.

 

There's no way around the fact that that is a major screw-up by U1.  It's actually pretty brutal. and just gets worse and worse with every repeat viewing.

 

No harm no foul, though.

 

 

 

U1 had about 12 things going on at once.  You wouldn't have gotten the OBS either.  They got it right.

 

The day I screw up that bad is the day I retire.  No way I would miss something that obvious right in front of me.

 

You sound like a total jock-sniffing fanboy when you continue to defend these guys on obvious mistakes like that.

 

Edit to completely hammer home the point of your RIDICULOUS "12 things" comment.  U1 has exactly one job on this play, and one job only, and that is to watch the action at the bag.  That's it.  Ball, runner, fielder, and obstructing fielder all within a few square inches.  All of the peripheral BS here is just nonsense that a supposed professional should know enough to tune out, and in fact if you watch the video AGAIN, you will see him focusing all of his attention on 1st base, which is what he should be doing.  He just flat out RAPES the call.  You guys are acting like his head is on swivel vainly attempting to ascertain all of the key and varied elements of a complicated play.  This could not possibly be any SIMPLER for him as literally every single thing that he needs to see for this play is RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF HIM within easy view.

 

And he still blows it.  Just terrible umpiring.  Thank god his crew was there to bail him out, and I'm sure he'll be buying them drinks for the rest of the season for saving his ass from national ridicule.

Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
  • Author
Posted

They got the call right therefore no screwup

LOL, keep telling yourself that.

 

This wasn't a pee wee rec ball game, it's the freaking major leagues.

 

There's no way around the fact that that is a major screw-up by U1.  It's actually pretty brutal. and just gets worse and worse with every repeat viewing.

 

No harm no foul, though.

 

 

 

U1 had about 12 things going on at once.  You wouldn't have gotten the OBS either.  They got it right.

 

The day I screw up that bad is the day I retire.  No way I would miss something that obvious right in front of me.

 

You sound like a total jock-sniffing fanboy when you continue to defend these guys on obvious mistakes like that.

 

Edit to completely hammer home the point of your RIDICULOUS "12 things" comment.  U1 has exactly one job on this play, and one job only, and that is to watch the action at the bag.  That's it.  Ball, runner, fielder, and obstructing fielder all within a few square inches.  All of the peripheral BS here is just nonsense that a supposed professional should know enough to tune out, and in fact if you watch the video AGAIN, you will see him focusing all of his attention on 1st base, which is what he should be doing.  He just flat out RAPES the call.  You guys are acting like his head is on swivel vainly attempting to ascertain all of the key and varied elements of a complicated play.  This could not possibly be any SIMPLER for him as literally every single thing that he needs to see for this play is RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF HIM within easy view.

 

And he still blows it.  Just terrible umpiring.  Thank god his crew was there to bail him out, and I'm sure he'll be buying them drinks for the rest of the season for bailing his ass out.

And your next MLB game is when!?!?!? You're so full of it, I can smell you from here!!

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2

JaxRolo

JaxRolo

Posted
Posted

@iablue I know we all can't be as good as you with all you vast experience. Lets see Iowa. Mmmm . What do you work. 3 games a year? All I have to say is, good thing I'm not a mod.

Haid D' Salaami

Haid D' Salaami

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

 

Oh I have been wrong before!  I guess my philosophy has always been to let the play decide the outcome and not try and enforce something unless it is absolutely a violation.  But I see your point.  Does the pitcher impede the base runners progress towards first? Yes.  Is he safe at first without his progress being impeded?  I don't think so, which is why I would leave it alone.

 

 

And by rule you would be wrong.

 

the Pitcher did nothing to stop the runner from reaching 1st... he would have been out anyways...But i know the rule..

 

but the question reminds.. why did the PU not do anything.. this is his call.

 

You might want to let Hunter know that then, since you're saying he's wrong.  

 

 

7.06 When obstruction occurs, the umpire shall call or signal "Obstruction." 

If a play is being made on the obstructed runner, or if the batterrunner is obstructed before he touches first base, the ball is dead and all runners shall advance, without liability to be put out, to the bases they would have reached, in the umpires judgment, if there had been no obstruction.

 

So in my opinion, if I remove the obstruction and I judge that the batter/runner would have still been out I am not awarding him first base.  Let's say the contact between batter/runner is 10 feet before the first base bag, contact occurs right before the throw is caught at first base for the out.  Do you still award first base??  Not on my field.

I ONCE NEVER SAID THEY WERE WRONG, JUST SAID i DONT LIKE THE RULE...

Haid D' Salaami

Haid D' Salaami

Posted
Posted

No you do not "remove the obstruction and judge the BR to still be out". The man is entitled to attempt to achieve first base, even on the most routine of plays.

 

Rather, if the BR is already out when obstructed, then it's not really OBS is it? You could actually get an INT call here, by a teammate already retired, if circumstances warrant.

 

HDS feels the batter was out before he was obstructed.

UH.. CAUSE THE br WAS OUT BEFORE HE WAS obs.....

 

please don't talk rules to me.. i know the rules.. ask your boy dave.

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