NFHS Penalty strike

[sdix00]

NFHS

Tourney championship game. Bottom 7. Tie score. R3 only.  No outs.  0-0 count.  

F1 starts his delivery.  B1 DELIBERATELY (no question) steps out of the box with 

both feet in an obvious attempt to get the pitcher to balk in the winning run.

F1 , clearly affected, legally continues his delivery and bounces the pitch which gets past F2.   

R3 trots in, apparently scoring the winning run. 

Whatcha got?

[UmpJM]

A $hitstorm?

 

JM

[Thunderheads]

A $hitstorm?

 

JM

       

[Thunderheads]

Don't we have 3-3-1(o) here? call 'time' or use ny command or commit any act for the purpose of causing a balk .......

 

But if so,...you better be damned sure it was on purpose

[gnhbua93]

Wildpitch

[noumpere]

Don't we have 3-3-1(o) here? call 'time' or use ny command or commit any act for the purpose of causing a balk .......

 

But if so,...you better be damned sure it was on purpose

And the penalty for that is just an ejection (which doesn't affect the so called outcome of the game)

 

But, I suppose an umpire could judge that F1 was so affected that he hesitated in his delivery and thus balked and since that's an immediate dead ball no run would score.

 

But were reaching into 10-2-3g (is that the right rule?) territory now.

[scrounge]

There's no question that he intentionally stepped out with both feet....but how do you know it was for purposes for inducing a balk? That would be a tough one to try to support in a post game report. Not that I don't believe you - he probably was. But maybe he'd say - reasonably - that he wanted time or got spooked or had second thoughts or just flaked out. Maybe you could kill it if there was a balk - but since he delivered it, I think all you've got is an 0-1 count (maybe even 0-2) for stepping out of the box but made moot by a run scoring on the wild pitch.

[BigUmpire]

Kill it when the batter steps out. Call "No pitch!"

Hindsight is 2020

[Aging_Arbiter]

Kill it when the batter steps out. Call "No pitch!"

Hindsight is 2020

 

Hey.......that's MY line......

[Jocko]

Here's a thought.... Anytime an award is made, the ball is dead, correct. Sounds to me like you had every intention of awarding the 'penlty' strike. Can't do that with the ball live. Ergo, my thinking is to kill it immediately. Wouldn't that be appropriate? Could that be rule supported? Here's what I forsee happening in my head:

B2 steps out. F1 delivers a wild pitch. R3 is off and running. Removing my mask, I bounce out signalling dead ball and hollering "Time!Time!Time!" I announce the infraction and make the award. Since runners cannot advance on a dead ball, I send him back. After a short (very) explanation to OTHC, he gets the boot. He said I was horseSH*#. OTHC picks up where HC left off. He gone. No more adult coaches. Game over due to forfeit. My ej report would be almost word for word what I've written, but include rule cites.

Anyone disagree?

[Thunderheads]

..............and another flow of brilliant consciousness from Jocko!!

 

Where ya been buddy?!

[UmpJM]

Jocko,

 

Would that it were so.

 

Unfortunately, in their boundless wisdom, the FED rule makers included.... (6-4-2d1)

 

...if the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live. ....

 

If I'm the umpire, I killed it before the pitcher delivered (as others have suggested), you just didn't hear me.

 

JM

[Jocko]

..............and another flow of brilliant consciousness from Jocko!!

 

Where ya been buddy?!

lurking mostly, my brother in blue. I've become addicted to plaing online poker for fake $.

So, I take it you agree with my summation?

[Thunderheads]

 

..............and another flow of brilliant consciousness from Jocko!!

 

Where ya been buddy?!

lurking mostly, my brother in blue. I've become addicted to plaing online poker for fake $.

So, I take it you agree with my summation?

 

I was 'funnin' mostly!

[Jocko]

Jocko,

 

Would that it were so.

 

Unfortunately, in their boundless wisdom, the FED rule makers included.... (6-4-2d1)

 

...if the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live. ....

 

If I'm the umpire, I killed it before the pitcher delivered (as others have suggested), you just didn't hear me.

 

JMdammit Yoda! I had it all worked out. Oh well. That being the case, I sell that I gave the batter time. Then EJ the coaches for arguing and forfeit. Same result.

[bam]

"Time"

 

By FED rules, you add 2 strikes to the count.  Would I do it?  No.  But I might add 1. 

[johnnyg08]

In FED it is an automatic strike, plus a strike.  No matter the location of the pitch.  

 

There's a reason that penalty is so severe...for a$$ clown coaches who do this to try and win games. 

[Jimurray]

Jocko,

 

Would that it were so.

 

Unfortunately, in their boundless wisdom, the FED rule makers included.... (6-4-2d1)

 

...if the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live. ....

 

If I'm the umpire, I killed it before the pitcher delivered (as others have suggested), you just didn't hear me.

 

JM

And FED also has this caseplay:

 

6.2.4 SITUATION I:

With R1 on third base, F1 starts his pitching motion and B2 requests "Time," but the umpire does not grant "Time." B2 steps out of the batter's box with both feet and (a) F1 delivers a pitch, (b) does not deliver the pitch or © throws a wild pitch.

RULING: (a) The umpire shall call two strikes on B2, one on the pitch, and one for stepping out of the box. In (b), the umpire shall call a strike on B2 for stepping out of the batter's box. The balk is nullified. In ©, two strikes shall be called on B2, one on the pitch and one for stepping out. The ball remains live. (7-3-1 Penalty) "

 

The belated time call is the what I would go with.

[johnnyg08]

 

 

The belated time call is the what I would go with.

 

 

 

Lock step w/ the rules.  

[clawdad]

Had to use the same rule the other night in a HS Varsity Game. 

 

HT has R3. 2 out, with a 2-1 count.  VT F1 comes set and starts his delivery.  Batter quietly says "Time" and steps out with both feet.  F1 stops his motion, and R3 starts clapping & cheering and heading home.  I call time, and send R3 back.  I announce "that's a strike to the batter".  HT coach says "Why? the pitcher balked!" I tell him that the balk was caused by his batter stepping out of the box, so the balk is ignored and a penalty strike is assessed to the batter.  HT coach: "That's not a rule!  Can you ask your partner?"  So I get together with my partner (who happens to be the President of my association).  We conference, and are both sure of the ruling.  Call stands, let's play. HT Coach: "Wow, really?" Yes, really - play ball.  Batter singles and scores R3; he gets caught stealing 2B for the 3rd out.

 

Between innings, the offending HT batter (who is also their F1) asks why that was a strike.  He seemed ligitimately confused, so I explain the rule again.  Then the exchange goes something like this:

 

Player: But I called time,

Me: I never granted you time, you stepped out and just assumed I would.

 

Player: Their pitcher balked. He stopped his delivery. He never threw home.

Me: The balk was caused by you stepping out.  If I had granted you time, there would have been no balk since the ball would be dead.  Plus, you should be glad he didn't deliver, because it would have been 2 strikes instead of 1 and you would have been out.

 

Player: What if I had dust in my eye?

Me: Did you?

Player: ummm.....................................

Me: Let's play ball.

[cp9]

On a similar note, while reading the case play above I looked at the preceding situation, 6.2.4 H.  It states:

 

 

6.2.4 SITUATION H:

R1 is on third base. There are two outs and B4 has a count

of 3-2. While F1 is in motion, B4 requests time-out, which is not granted, and

steps out of the box with (a) one foot or (b) both feet. F1 delivers a pitch that sails

over F2’s head. B4 advances to first while R1 scores.

 

RULING: In (a) and (b), the run counts. B4 is charged with a strikeout and remains on first base. Since B4 did

not intentionally try to cause F1 to balk or throw a wild pitch, the umpire shall not eject him. The ball remains live. (7-3-1 Penalty)

 

Can someone explain how if there are two outs, the run counts and B4 remains on first base but is charged with a strikeout?  Is it a dropped 3K?

[SoCal Lurker]

On a similar note, while reading the case play above I looked at the preceding situation, 6.2.4 H.  It states:

 

 

6.2.4 SITUATION H:

R1 is on third base. There are two outs and B4 has a count

of 3-2. While F1 is in motion, B4 requests time-out, which is not granted, and

steps out of the box with (a) one foot or (b) both feet. F1 delivers a pitch that sails

over F2’s head. B4 advances to first while R1 scores.

 

RULING: In (a) and (b), the run counts. B4 is charged with a strikeout and remains on first base. Since B4 did

not intentionally try to cause F1 to balk or throw a wild pitch, the umpire shall not eject him. The ball remains live. (7-3-1 Penalty)

 

Can someone explain how if there are two outs, the run counts and B4 remains on first base but is charged with a strikeout?  Is it a dropped 3K?

 

Yes, it is an uncaught third strike.

[UmpJM]

cp9,

 

Yes, it is an uncaught 3rd strike AND the ball remains "in play" on a penalty strike per 6-2-4d1.

 

JM

[cp9]

What would your mechanic be on the situation above?  I would imagine that when PU announced strike 3, the BR would probably freeze.

[zoops]

On a similar note, while reading the case play above I looked at the preceding situation, 6.2.4 H.  It states:

 

 

6.2.4 SITUATION H:

R1 is on third base. There are two outs and B4 has a count

of 3-2. While F1 is in motion, B4 requests time-out, which is not granted, and

steps out of the box with (a) one foot or (b) both feet. F1 delivers a pitch that sails

over F2’s head. B4 advances to first while R1 scores.

 

RULING: In (a) and (b), the run counts. B4 is charged with a strikeout and remains on first base. Since B4 did

not intentionally try to cause F1 to balk or throw a wild pitch, the umpire shall not eject him. The ball remains live. (7-3-1 Penalty)

 

Can someone explain how if there are two outs, the run counts and B4 remains on first base but is charged with a strikeout?  Is it a dropped 3K?

 

In the OP, he said it was a "deliberate" act to cause a balk, which is an ejection by rule (3-3-1o).  Would the ejection cause the ball to be dead thus prevent the runner from scoring on the wild pitch?