1 Man Strike Zone

[bam]

In fairness to IABlue, Carl Childress is pretty adamant about calling from behind the mound while working alone. Not bad company to keep.

[basejester]

Here. This is a good video of what I'm talking about. I don't really like this dude running the video or his video series (I've heard from others he's a scammer), but this shows a point.

I know this is not the point your making, but this video makes me nuts. What's this "most of the zone" idea? There's no basis for that in the rules. He doesn't specify a code, but the letters aren't the top of the zone in Little League.

[noumpere]

Seriously, can't we debate some plausible? My suggestion, is the earth round or flat?

We need some baseball ASAP.

Not to stir the pot.... But the earth is flat.

It has to be flat because that's the only way you could see the strike zone as good from behind the pitcher as from behind the catcher.

[Richvee]

No point in continuing. He's not willing to learn.

Can't see how he can argue against Pro school grads D1 and other highly know leave umpires on this site. Sad

It's the whole attitude. Some people think their "opinions" are gospel, absolute truths. Anyone who dares think otherwise is an idiot, uninformed, talking out of their a$$.... and they're not afraid to let you know. 

Unfortunately, I know too many people like this.

 

Me: "I think Ryan Braun is the best hitting outfielder in the game today"

Them: "No way...It's Trout by a mile. How can you be such an idiot to think Braun is better? You don't know what you're talking about, you're a moron......."

 

There's no debating , exchange of ideas, or thoughtful conversation with this type person. Sad. 

[NFUA_44]

In fairness to IABlue, Carl Childress is pretty adamant about calling from behind the mound while working alone. Not bad company to keep.

CC very well may be adamant about it, doesn't mean it's right or "superior" in any particular way.  IABlue links to Carls article, which is a very good piece by him, and Btw it's not about being behind the pitcher, it's about how different stances work.  There is a minor reference to Carl's belief that being behind the pitcher is a good place to be where he discusses what Bill Klem could have done differently 107 years ago.

 

There really isn't anything wrong with having a debate or discussion about 1 man mechanics, but from jump street IABlue has spoken down from a pedestal that he has placed himself on, and shouted down as just plain wrong anybody who can't see his "obvious" logic in the matter, both in this thread and the other one in the FED forum where this started.  That's not debate, and it's certainly not discussion.  I can't say that I can think of many veteran poster's here who walk around with an attitude that I've never missed a pitch, and I'm guaranteed to be better than you.  That doesn't come across as someone looking to discuss anything.

 

I think the current result of the poll should help open the eyes and maybe soften the conversation since it's blatantly obvious that there aren't many people that see being behind F1 as the best possible spot to call balls and strikes.  I have yet to see from Carl Childress, or any other authority, a compelling theory of how being 65 to 70 feet away gives you a better opportunity to see corners, or how the ball is caught by F2, when I'm less than a foot away.  Following this logic we will need to modify how far we allow coaches to push on balls and strikes, since we are now out amongst them, and in fact telling them that we have a better view from out here (uhm, same place you are skip!).  So obviously it's going to be ok to allow some back and forth about balls and strikes............right............This ignores all the other things that come into play.  Isn't F/F our first priority?  Why is that?  We are going to give that up in order to go get a superior view where we never miss a pitch............If that were only the reality of it, I guess they would already be doing it where most of the participants get paid astronomical sums of money to be some of the best in the world at what they do, be it player, manager, or umpire.

 

Have a discussion.  Hell share your opinion.  Keep the third grade "I'm better than you, guarranteed", out of it.  My

[Jocko]

No point in continuing. He's not willing to learn.Can't see how he can argue against Pro school grads D1 and other highly know leave umpires on this site. Sad

It's the whole attitude. Some people think their "opinions" are gospel, absolute truths. Anyone who dares think otherwise is an idiot, uninformed, talking out of their a$$.... and they're not afraid to let you know. Unfortunately, I know too many people like this. Me: "I think Ryan Braun is the best hitting outfielder in the game today"Them: "No way...It's Trout by a mile. How can you be such an idiot to think Braun is better? You don't know what you're talking about, you're a moron......." There's no debating , exchange of ideas, or thoughtful conversation with this type person. Sad. Well it IS Trout. And he should have won MVP last year too. And if you disagree, you're obviously not on the same level as I am and you suck Trout...... I love hearing announcers say that name!

[Called3rdStrike]

No point in continuing. He's not willing to learn.Can't see how he can argue against Pro school grads D1 and other highly know leave umpires on this site. Sad

It's the whole attitude. Some people think their "opinions" are gospel, absolute truths. Anyone who dares think otherwise is an idiot, uninformed, talking out of their a$$.... and they're not afraid to let you know. Unfortunately, I know too many people like this. Me: "I think Ryan Braun is the best hitting outfielder in the game today"Them: "No way...It's Trout by a mile. How can you be such an idiot to think Braun is better? You don't know what you're talking about, you're a moron......." There's no debating , exchange of ideas, or thoughtful conversation with this type person. Sad. Well it IS Trout. And he should have won MVP last year too. And if you disagree, you're obviously not on the same level as I am and you suck Trout...... I love hearing announcers say that name! Trout was robbed and so was Ryan Braun. No if ands or butts about it.

[Jocko]

Wish I could find the familial connection. Never traced the geneology, but it's not far fetched. "Mike" has spoken to my son on twitter. If it really was him, not someone tweeting for him.

[umpstu]

I was hoping calling one man games behind F1 was not the norm. 

 

Except maybe for this guy....

 

Stop picking on me.

[Jocko]

I was hoping calling one man games behind F1 was not the norm.  Except maybe for this guy.... 

Stop picking on me.That ain't you. Y'all still wear heather pants!

[umpstu]

I kind of like that IABlue isn't backing down. Standing up for what he believes.

 

I disagree with him, but I like that he isn't immediately backtracking.

 

The reason for me that behind HP is the best for balls/strikes (not getting into fair/foul and OOP), is because of the breaking pitch, or, in some youth leagues, pretty much any pitch. Anyone can tell, from any part of the ball park, that a fastball right down the pipe is a strike. Similarly, anyone can tell when a pitch bounces, it's a ball.

But when there is a nice curveball at upper levels, or a pitcher who can't throw a ball straight yet at lower levels, you need to exactly where the pitch crosses the plate to accurately judge it... If you're 70-75 feet away, or even in youth leagues, 50-55 feet away, it would take a superhero like depth perception to be able to tell.

 

Just my  .

Maybe at a lower level, I wouldn't know as I rarely work anything below high school varsity.

 

I can tell you with absolute certainly that I can accurately judge an MLB breaking ball on TV from my living room from EXACTLY the same angle that I would when looking from behind the pitcher's mound if I were on the field.

That's a bold statement since the placement of the camera severely distorts the view of the pitch, depending on placement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQfLAR0Fy7g

[scrounge]

I kind of like that IABlue isn't backing down. Standing up for what he believes.

 

I disagree with him, but I like that he isn't immediately backtracking.

 

The reason for me that behind HP is the best for balls/strikes (not getting into fair/foul and OOP), is because of the breaking pitch, or, in some youth leagues, pretty much any pitch. Anyone can tell, from any part of the ball park, that a fastball right down the pipe is a strike. Similarly, anyone can tell when a pitch bounces, it's a ball.

But when there is a nice curveball at upper levels, or a pitcher who can't throw a ball straight yet at lower levels, you need to exactly where the pitch crosses the plate to accurately judge it... If you're 70-75 feet away, or even in youth leagues, 50-55 feet away, it would take a superhero like depth perception to be able to tell.

 

Just my  .

Maybe at a lower level, I wouldn't know as I rarely work anything below high school varsity.

 

I can tell you with absolute certainly that I can accurately judge an MLB breaking ball on TV from my living room from EXACTLY the same angle that I would when looking from behind the pitcher's mound if I were on the field.

That's a bold statement since the placement of the camera severely distorts the view of the pitch, depending on placement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQfLAR0Fy7g

But he said it with absolute, 100%, you're an idiot if you disagree with him, certainty!!!!

[umpstu]

This is from a Carl Childress article written several years ago.  I assume you guys know who that is.

 

Let me say straight out: A good umpire can use any stance – and still be good. Slot, scissors, knee, box: History has proved that a talented official can overcome the deficiencies inherent in any stance. For no umpiring position, save the one where the umpire calls from behind the pitcher, is free of problems. Note 1: An umpire can see so well from behind the pitcher, I believe that if Bill Klem in 1906 had hired two "linesmen" to call fair/foul and watch runners touch the bases, we’d call balls and strikes from the mound today.

 

http://www.umpire.org/writers/childress1.html

I can appreciate Carl's experience and opinion, but very much disagree with his box vs slot theories. In his description of how to stand in the box position an umpire seems to have to be leaning over the top of catcher to see him catch the pitch or he would be looking through the catcher's head. Whereas in a properly positioned umpire working the slot has a great view of the whole pitch, including the catch. And teaching new umpires to call both balls and strikes while still down and the signalling a strike with the arm is not right. Verbalizing the strike at the same time as the physical signal is one of the things to differentiate a ball and strike. These are just my opinion, so don't hack my computer with some type of flu virus if you are not in agreement. ha

[umpstu]

 

 

I kind of like that IABlue isn't backing down. Standing up for what he believes.

 

I disagree with him, but I like that he isn't immediately backtracking.

 

The reason for me that behind HP is the best for balls/strikes (not getting into fair/foul and OOP), is because of the breaking pitch, or, in some youth leagues, pretty much any pitch. Anyone can tell, from any part of the ball park, that a fastball right down the pipe is a strike. Similarly, anyone can tell when a pitch bounces, it's a ball.

But when there is a nice curveball at upper levels, or a pitcher who can't throw a ball straight yet at lower levels, you need to exactly where the pitch crosses the plate to accurately judge it... If you're 70-75 feet away, or even in youth leagues, 50-55 feet away, it would take a superhero like depth perception to be able to tell.

 

Just my  .

Maybe at a lower level, I wouldn't know as I rarely work anything below high school varsity.

 

I can tell you with absolute certainly that I can accurately judge an MLB breaking ball on TV from my living room from EXACTLY the same angle that I would when looking from behind the pitcher's mound if I were on the field.

 

That's a bold statement since the placement of the camera severely distorts the view of the pitch, depending on placement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQfLAR0Fy7g

 

But he said it with absolute, 100%, you're an idiot if you disagree with him, certainty!!!!

Received this video, or another similar one, a couple of years ago from the staff of a college association I am a part of. I don't think you get a very good up or down view from behind the pitcher either. Not arguing about it, just stating my opinion.

[umpstu]

I have an easier time listening to John Bible and tend to agree with his philosophies, especially the don't go digging for buggers theory. 

[LMSANS]

Behind the pitcher?

 

                       

 

as for the cameras at MLB games, they are in the second best place. 

Because the TV execs that have billions of dollars invested in MLB broadcasts  are idots?

Well, yes...when it comes to the correct way to officiate a baseball game.

[TNCoach]

Coming from a coach who had coached middle school varsity the past 4 years, I always have hated to see 1 umpire show up for a game.  Usually they take their spot behind the pitcher.  Without fail, my pitcher doesn't get the knee-high pitches as strikes.  He has to elevate the ball and get hit harder than he normally would.  You also lose the curve ball catching the corner or a tailing fastball catching the corner.  I hate seeing 1 umpire.  If he gets behind the catcher, you lose some of the plays at second (or even other bases) if your runner avoids a tag on the slide, but I will always take the pitcher behind the dish.

[bam]

I'd LOVE to put a pitcher behind the dish just to see what he'd think.

[grayhawk]

I honestly just found this thread and it certainly did take on a life of its own since my initial disagreement with IABlue in the HS forum..

 

Might you have a better look at the outside corner from behind F1?  Without taking depth perception into account (remember, the strike zone is three dimensional), you might get a slightly better view.  However, since you cannot ignore the 3D aspect of the zone, 70 feet is simply too far away to see where the pitch actually was in relation to the zone as it passes the plate.  Mix in some exploding breaking balls and now you're really at a disadvantage behind F1.

 

Like I said in the other thread, and as others have said here:  If you want to call a game solo behind F1, then please do so.  Perhaps that is how it's done in your part of the country.  I can tell you that here in SoCal, if I called a HS game from behind the mound, I would be reported by both coaches and would receive an email from my assigner suggesting that the next game I called from behind F1 would be my last.  I would also have to give up any hope of improving my rating and working the playoffs.

[D62 blue]

I honestly just found this thread and it certainly did take on a life of its own since my initial disagreement with IABlue in the HS forum..

 

Might you have a better look at the outside corner from behind F1?  Without taking depth perception into account (remember, the strike zone is three dimensional), you might get a slightly better view.  However, since you cannot ignore the 3D aspect of the zone, 70 feet is simply too far away to see where the pitch actually was in relation to the zone as it passes the plate.  Mix in some exploding breaking balls and now you're really at a disadvantage behind F1.

 

Like I said in the other thread, and as others have said here:  If you want to call a game solo behind F1, then please do so.  Perhaps that is how it's done in your part of the country.  I can tell you that here in SoCal, if I called a HS game from behind the mound, I would be reported by both coaches and would receive an email from my assigner suggesting that the next game I called from behind F1 would be my last.  I would also have to give up any hope of improving my rating and working the playoffs.

 

 

+ one to that , brother !!! good luck with you're season . My 1st regular season HS gm is this Friday !! 

Marc

[IABlue]

Coming from a coach who had coached middle school varsity the past 4 years, I always have hated to see 1 umpire show up for a game.  Usually they take their spot behind the pitcher.  Without fail, my pitcher doesn't get the knee-high pitches as strikes.  He has to elevate the ball and get hit harder than he normally would.  You also lose the curve ball catching the corner or a tailing fastball catching the corner.  I hate seeing 1 umpire.  If he gets behind the catcher, you lose some of the plays at second (or even other bases) if your runner avoids a tag on the slide, but I will always take the pitcher behind the dish.

That is just crazy.  You have a much, MUCH better view of the knee pitch from looking straight ahead than you do from behind the catcher.  I honestly can't believe that there are people on earth that would dispute that.

 

It is virtually impossible to tell exactly where the knee ptich is from behind the catcher.  Even MLB umpires (Tim McClelland lives not too far from me and I have heard him speak on numerous occasions) are relying primarily on the catcher to sell that pitch for them.

 

What you are really implying by saying a solo umpire behind F1 makes you throw higher is that umpires working behind the catcher tend to call consistently low strikes.  You might appreciate this in certain instances, but it has absolutely nothing at all to do with the accuracy and consistency of the strike zone being called from behind F1.

 

This thread is just bizarre.

[Richvee]

Coming from a coach who had coached middle school varsity the past 4 years, I always have hated to see 1 umpire show up for a game.  Usually they take their spot behind the pitcher.  Without fail, my pitcher doesn't get the knee-high pitches as strikes.  He has to elevate the ball and get hit harder than he normally would.  You also lose the curve ball catching the corner or a tailing fastball catching the corner.  I hate seeing 1 umpire.  If he gets behind the catcher, you lose some of the plays at second (or even other bases) if your runner avoids a tag on the slide, but I will always take the pitcher behind the dish.

 

 

This thread is just bizarre.

What's bizarre is the fact that every member of this forum disagrees with you, yet you refuse to even entertain the thought that maybe.....just MAYBE we're not all wrong. 

[scrounge]

Coming from a coach who had coached middle school varsity the past 4 years, I always have hated to see 1 umpire show up for a game.  Usually they take their spot behind the pitcher.  Without fail, my pitcher doesn't get the knee-high pitches as strikes.  He has to elevate the ball and get hit harder than he normally would.  You also lose the curve ball catching the corner or a tailing fastball catching the corner.  I hate seeing 1 umpire.  If he gets behind the catcher, you lose some of the plays at second (or even other bases) if your runner avoids a tag on the slide, but I will always take the pitcher behind the dish.

That is just crazy.  You have a much, MUCH better view of the knee pitch from looking straight ahead than you do from behind the catcher.  I honestly can't believe that there are people on earth that would dispute that.

 

It is virtually impossible to tell exactly where the knee ptich is from behind the catcher.  Even MLB umpires (Tim McClelland lives not too far from me and I have heard him speak on numerous occasions) are relying primarily on the catcher to sell that pitch for them.

 

What you are really implying by saying a solo umpire behind F1 makes you throw higher is that umpires working behind the catcher tend to call consistently low strikes.  You might appreciate this in certain instances, but it has absolutely nothing at all to do with the accuracy and consistency of the strike zone being called from behind F1.

 

This thread is just bizarre.

 

 

If you think the entire world is crazy....it's you.

[noumpere]

Coming from a coach who had coached middle school varsity the past 4 years, I always have hated to see 1 umpire show up for a game.  Usually they take their spot behind the pitcher.  Without fail, my pitcher doesn't get the knee-high pitches as strikes.  He has to elevate the ball and get hit harder than he normally would.  You also lose the curve ball catching the corner or a tailing fastball catching the corner.  I hate seeing 1 umpire.  If he gets behind the catcher, you lose some of the plays at second (or even other bases) if your runner avoids a tag on the slide, but I will always take the pitcher behind the dish.

That is just crazy.  You have a much, MUCH better view of the knee pitch from looking straight ahead than you do from behind the catcher.  I honestly can't believe that there are people on earth that would dispute that.

 

It is virtually impossible to tell exactly where the knee ptich is from behind the catcher.  Even MLB umpires (Tim McClelland lives not too far from me and I have heard him speak on numerous occasions) are relying primarily on the catcher to sell that pitch for them.

 

What you are really implying by saying a solo umpire behind F1 makes you throw higher is that umpires working behind the catcher tend to call consistently low strikes.  You might appreciate this in certain instances, but it has absolutely nothing at all to do with the accuracy and consistency of the strike zone being called from behind F1.

 

This thread is just bizarre.

You also dont have good depth perception from 60 feet away or more so you wont be able to tell whether a pitch thats dropping went below the batters knees in front of them or behind them. Or a ptich thats curving went beyond the corner of the plate before the plate or behind the plate.

[Jocko]

If you think about it, those questionable pitches that get Joe Morgan lit up from the OF cam look completely different when they show the bird's-eye. Announcers will be chirping, and the camera changes.....BANG. they change their tune.