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Warning? And Post-Ejection Discussions


CricketChapman

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Long-time reader of these forums and I finally joined; this is a great site.

This was an ejection from the past spring. It was in pool-play at a 10U USSSA tournament (OBR); I'm on the bases in a two-man crew. Let me provide some contextual information: prior to the game, at the plate meeting, HT HC objects to the tournament-specific rule of only one coach is allowed outside the dugout when his team is on defense (I normally do not allow any coaches outside the dugout on defense, grounded in OBR 3.17 and 9.01©). The HT HC and I have a brief discussion, which I end with, "I understand what you are saying, but it is a rule, Coach, and it will be enforced. That's the end of this discussion - let's get ready to play." VT HC witnesses the conversation (it is near the end of the meeting) and it appears VT AC standing 10 or 15 ft behind him overhears it as well.

So, it is now bottom 3, and HT leads 8-1. R3, two outs, BR grounds to SS, who bobbles the ball before throwing to 1B. I call BR safe on a banger; HT now leads 9-1. Immediately, I hear yelling from VT AC from the dugout. It goes something like this: "Ah c'mon, Blue. That's two! You can't give them calls because their coach argued before the game." The comments are audible to everyone on the field and in the bleachers.

I considered ejecting immediately (due to this being an AC, the "You" comment, and the loudness of the remarks), but withheld the urge. I gave a strong glare towards the VT AC, and he stopped talking. Because he stopped, I did not feel the need to issue any warning. Of additional note, he had twice made remarks about my partner's strike zone under his breath when I was in 'A' position. As for the "That's two" remark, I assume he was presuming I had missed a call earlier, but I did not have any prior close plays at that point in the game.

So, about 10 seconds elapse and I settle into 'B' position for the next batter. As the pitcher enters his stretch, the VT AC yells noticeably louder than before, "I GUESS I NEED TO YELL LOUDER SO I CAN GET A CALL." I immediately call time and dump the AC.

The VT AC walks out on the field, and before he gets near me I put up the stop sign, and calmly say, "Coach, you've been ejected; you need to leave the playing area." AC says that he wants to talk about the ejection and states, "What do I have to do to get a call? You're giving them calls because HT HC argued before the game." I respond, "There is no such thing as 'getting a call.' Plays are called as they happen." AC responds, "Well, obviously there is." I turn and walk away; he adds, "You're terrible," as a parting shot and he leaves the field.

HT wins on mercy rule the next inning. VT HC comes to me immediately after the final out and apologizes for his AC's behavior, "On behalf of [his] team and the league [they] come from." I did not see VT AC the remainder of the weekend, and the remainder of the games I umpired in the tournament were either 11U or 14U.

So, my questions are: (1) Would you issue a warning prior to the ejection (at any point), and (2) How do you handle/how far do you let a post-ejection discussion go, or do you allow them at all?

I am particularly interested in responses to the second question, because this was the first time in nine seasons I have had a coach try to "get his money's worth." Thank you very much.

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My philosophy is that once they are dumped, I'm deaf. I don't discuss any further. If he won't leave, it's time to get HC involved. Something like, "Mike, I ejected your ass coach. He has to leave immediately."

Spoken in a 1-on-1 scenario in hushed tones. Let Mike handle it. If he refuses, he gets, "Mike, if he's not gone, you're going with him."

That lights a fire under his ass.

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Long-time reader of these forums and I finally joined; this is a great site.

This was an ejection from the past spring. It was in pool-play at a 10U USSSA tournament (OBR); I'm on the bases in a two-man crew. Let me provide some contextual information: prior to the game, at the plate meeting, HT HC objects to the tournament-specific rule of only one coach is allowed outside the dugout when his team is on defense (I normally do not allow any coaches outside the dugout on defense, grounded in OBR 3.17 and 9.01©). The HT HC and I have a brief discussion, which I end with, "I understand what you are saying, but it is a rule, Coach, and it will be enforced. That's the end of this discussion - let's get ready to play." VT HC witnesses the conversation (it is near the end of the meeting) and it appears VT AC standing 10 or 15 ft behind him overhears it as well.

My question would be, why as the BU were you even involved in this discussion at the plate meeting?

The Plate Meeting belongs to the PU.

How did this conversation even get started?

What was the PU doing?

When I conduct a Plate Meeting as a PU, even when I ask my BU partner if he has anything to add, he better remain silent.

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Long-time reader of these forums and I finally joined; this is a great site.

This was an ejection from the past spring. It was in pool-play at a 10U USSSA tournament (OBR); I'm on the bases in a two-man crew. Let me provide some contextual information: prior to the game, at the plate meeting, HT HC objects to the tournament-specific rule of only one coach is allowed outside the dugout when his team is on defense (I normally do not allow any coaches outside the dugout on defense, grounded in OBR 3.17 and 9.01©). The HT HC and I have a brief discussion, which I end with, "I understand what you are saying, but it is a rule, Coach, and it will be enforced. That's the end of this discussion - let's get ready to play." VT HC witnesses the conversation (it is near the end of the meeting) and it appears VT AC standing 10 or 15 ft behind him overhears it as well.

My question would be, why as the BU were you even involved in this discussion at the plate meeting?

The Plate Meeting belongs to the PU.

How did this conversation even get started?

What was the PU doing?

When I conduct a Plate Meeting as a PU, even when I ask my BU partner if he has anything to add, he better remain silent.

I keep em short and sweet. Thay know the drill. Legally equipped, time limit/innings, run rule, ground rules, coin flip.
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My question would be, why as the BU were you even involved in this discussion at the plate meeting?

The Plate Meeting belongs to the PU.

How did this conversation even get started?

What was the PU doing?

When I conduct a Plate Meeting as a PU, even when I ask my BU partner if he has anything to add, he better remain silent.

I was working this game with an inexperienced umpire (who had not read the tournament-specific rules) and was asked by him to cover any tourney rules. I was not aware of this until we were on the field, the rules were not posted anywhere (there were 6-7 of them), and I did not have time to disclose them to my partner.

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My philosophy is that once they are dumped, I'm deaf. I don't discuss any further. If he won't leave, it's time to get HC involved. Something like, "Mike, I ejected your ass coach. He has to leave immediately."

Spoken in a 1-on-1 scenario in hushed tones. Let Mike handle it. If he refuses, he gets, "Mike, if he's not gone, you're going with him."

That lights a fire under his ass.

Perfect! Short and sweet. Applicable to all ejections.

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It's an ass coach, so he gets little to no leash. If the " that's two" and " you can't give them calls..." are only loud enough for me to hear, I'm givin a quick stop sign and a " that's enough". Now, if its loud enough bleacher creatures can hear, I'm dumping him right then and there.

After you dump him, turn around and start walkin the other way. If he says something to you, ignore it. He no longer exist in your world. Your partner needs to come play rodeo clown and get Earl Jr off your butt.

And ALWAYS pregame. It's better to come in and meet between innings than drop kick a call cause of a missed rotation.

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I agree the original statement about two calls and giving them calls are auto ejects. I don't care if it is the asst or the manager, they have to go. As far as post ejection conversation, it depends on where the participants are when the ejections happen. I also agree that you should walk away but it is an one on one there is possibility of some conversation before your partner comes and gets him. If it like your's where the coach is across the infield then there should no conversation. Tell the manager to get rid of him.

I understand why you were the one explaining the tournament rules, less than ideal, but when he complains simply tell him if he disagrees he needs to bring that up with the TD, we won't be discussing it. I do find it interesting that the VT coach thinks that would get him calls when you told him it would be enforced.

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Long-time reader of these forums and I finally joined; this is a great site.

This was an ejection from the past spring. It was in pool-play at a 10U USSSA tournament (OBR); I'm on the bases in a two-man crew. Let me provide some contextual information: prior to the game, at the plate meeting, HT HC objects to the tournament-specific rule of only one coach is allowed outside the dugout when his team is on defense (I normally do not allow any coaches outside the dugout on defense, grounded in OBR 3.17 and 9.01©). The HT HC and I have a brief discussion, which I end with, "I understand what you are saying, but it is a rule, Coach, and it will be enforced. That's the end of this discussion - let's get ready to play." VT HC witnesses the conversation (it is near the end of the meeting) and it appears VT AC standing 10 or 15 ft behind him overhears it as well.

My question would be, why as the BU were you even involved in this discussion at the plate meeting?

The Plate Meeting belongs to the PU.

How did this conversation even get started?

What was the PU doing?

When I conduct a Plate Meeting as a PU, even when I ask my BU partner if he has anything to add, he better remain silent.

Geez Lou, are you serious? Are you that concerned about being walked on, or is it a "power" thing?

No offense to Lou here, but I just don't understand this thought process. Your BU is your partner, a teammate so to speak. As a BU, if my PU asks me if I have anything to add, and I do, ...I'm going to damn well say it, and he's going to like it....even if its "No Lou, I think we've covered everything".

What's the big deal here?

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I'm with Lou.

Partner should remain silent during Plate meetings. I have heard some really stupid crap come out of partners to the point I do not even ask anymore.

Whenever I am asked when I am a base Umpire I say No.

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The only thing I will say at the plate meeting as a base ump is my name, and I might throw in something about the outfield fence if my partner didn't and really aught to be brought to everyones attention, otherwise nada. In tossing an assistant coach, should he decide he needs to come out and argue, i will walk right past him towards his teams bench and instruct the coach to remove the ejected coach. As was pointed out earlier, and ejected person is dead to me and doesn't get any explanation, doesn't get their "money's worth" as those asinine announcers like to say. I think you did fine with the look the first time, a lot of times that can resolve a situation before it really becomes anything, but the second after the look has been given and he continues to question my integrity.... boom seeya

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When he starts counting "missed calls" that's time for a warning, a look towards the dugout to acknowledge him and "That's enough" should suffice for that one. The next comment is see ya, an assistant coming to "get his money's worth" gets a cold shoulder and nothing more, a manager gets an explaination because usually he's sticking up for a player or keeping a player from getting run when he gets run.

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I understand why you were the one explaining the tournament rules, less than ideal, but when he complains simply tell him if he disagrees he needs to bring that up with the TD, we won't be discussing it. I do find it interesting that the VT coach thinks that would get him calls when you told him it would be enforced.

My guess is that the AC thought that for some reason I was "intimidated" by the opposing HC. As you said, though, my actions and words were the complete opposite of one who is "intimidated."

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PU, even when I ask my BU partner if he has anything to add, he better remain silent.

Lou what if you actually missed something and it becomes a problem later in the game?

Nothing should be missed if you Pre-Game properly with your partner.

Especially if that partner is inexperienced.

I see some making plate meetings to complicated.

Introductions

Coin flip if necessary.

Take line ups.

Any special ground rules for the field or the tournament. (Time limit/mercy etc)

Any questions.

HT take the field, game time is........

F1 throws warm ups.

Balls in, throw it down catcher.

PLAY!

It is a Plate Meeting....not a Convention.

Plate meetings are also not a Democracy.

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PU, even when I ask my BU partner if he has anything to add, he better remain silent.

Lou what if you actually missed something and it becomes a problem later in the game?

Nothing should be missed if you Pre-Game properly with your partner.

Especially if that partner is inexperienced.

I see some making plate meetings to complicated.

Introductions

Coin flip if necessary.

Take line ups.

Any special ground rules for the field or the tournament. (Time limit/mercy etc)

Any questions.

HT take the field, game time is........

F1 throws warm ups.

Balls in, throw it down catcher.

PLAY!

It is a Plate Meeting....not a Convention.

Plate meetings are also not a Democracy.

I agree nothing should be missed. But in game 5 of a day during a long tournament I wouldn't put it passed even the best of us to miss a minor detail in the plate meeting that the BU might throw in.

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If you make it routine and say the same thing every time, it becomes habit. Muscle-memory if you will. Remember K.I.S.S.

Keep It Simple, Stupid!

I'm not saying this kind of thing should happen often but it CAN happen.

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PU, even when I ask my BU partner if he has anything to add, he better remain silent.

Lou what if you actually missed something and it becomes a problem later in the game?

Nothing should be missed if you Pre-Game properly with your partner.

Especially if that partner is inexperienced.

I see some making plate meetings to complicated.

Introductions

Coin flip if necessary.

Take line ups.

Any special ground rules for the field or the tournament. (Time limit/mercy etc)

Any questions.

HT take the field, game time is........

F1 throws warm ups.

Balls in, throw it down catcher.

PLAY!

It is a Plate Meeting....not a Convention.

Plate meetings are also not a Democracy.

I agree nothing should be missed. But in game 5 of a day during a long tournament I wouldn't put it passed even the best of us to miss a minor detail in the plate meeting that the BU might throw in.

The thing is that by game 5 everyone should know all the ground rules.

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PU, even when I ask my BU partner if he has anything to add, he better remain silent.

Lou what if you actually missed something and it becomes a problem later in the game?

Nothing should be missed if you Pre-Game properly with your partner.

Especially if that partner is inexperienced.

I see some making plate meetings to complicated.

Introductions

Coin flip if necessary.

Take line ups.

Any special ground rules for the field or the tournament. (Time limit/mercy etc)

Any questions.

HT take the field, game time is........

F1 throws warm ups.

Balls in, throw it down catcher.

PLAY!

It is a Plate Meeting....not a Convention.

Plate meetings are also not a Democracy.

I agree nothing should be missed. But in game 5 of a day during a long tournament I wouldn't put it passed even the best of us to miss a minor detail in the plate meeting that the BU might throw in.

At game 5 it even becomes easier.

Bob you and Bill already flip for HT yet?

Great....any questions we haven't already covered today.

HT take the field.

Game Time is!!!!!!!!!

Play

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Long-time reader of these forums and I finally joined; this is a great site.

This was an ejection from the past spring. It was in pool-play at a 10U USSSA tournament (OBR); I'm on the bases in a two-man crew. Let me provide some contextual information: prior to the game, at the plate meeting, HT HC objects to the tournament-specific rule of only one coach is allowed outside the dugout when his team is on defense (I normally do not allow any coaches outside the dugout on defense, grounded in OBR 3.17 and 9.01©). The HT HC and I have a brief discussion, which I end with, "I understand what you are saying, but it is a rule, Coach, and it will be enforced. That's the end of this discussion - let's get ready to play." VT HC witnesses the conversation (it is near the end of the meeting) and it appears VT AC standing 10 or 15 ft behind him overhears it as well.

My question would be, why as the BU were you even involved in this discussion at the plate meeting?

The Plate Meeting belongs to the PU.

How did this conversation even get started?

What was the PU doing?

When I conduct a Plate Meeting as a PU, even when I ask my BU partner if he has anything to add, he better remain silent.

If you don't want to hear from your partner why even ask the question? What a douche, as youngn'blue would say.

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Long-time reader of these forums and I finally joined; this is a great site.

This was an ejection from the past spring. It was in pool-play at a 10U USSSA tournament (OBR); I'm on the bases in a two-man crew. Let me provide some contextual information: prior to the game, at the plate meeting, HT HC objects to the tournament-specific rule of only one coach is allowed outside the dugout when his team is on defense (I normally do not allow any coaches outside the dugout on defense, grounded in OBR 3.17 and 9.01©). The HT HC and I have a brief discussion, which I end with, "I understand what you are saying, but it is a rule, Coach, and it will be enforced. That's the end of this discussion - let's get ready to play." VT HC witnesses the conversation (it is near the end of the meeting) and it appears VT AC standing 10 or 15 ft behind him overhears it as well.

My question would be, why as the BU were you even involved in this discussion at the plate meeting?

The Plate Meeting belongs to the PU.

How did this conversation even get started?

What was the PU doing?

When I conduct a Plate Meeting as a PU, even when I ask my BU partner if he has anything to add, he better remain silent.

If you don't want to hear from your partner why even ask the question? What a douche, as youngn'blue would say.

Thank you for your kind words.

Think you have a lot to learn about umpiring as well as life.

Never said I ask my partner if he has anything to add at the plate meeting.

In the mean time :kissass: BAM

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