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If it's jr legion then likely he is thinking LL where they use a MPR(mininum play requirement)but he still has it wrong. I am giving the benifit of doubt and say he is thing you can sub or re-enter for a sub until he has batted once and played six defensive outs.

Sometimes you wonder which is worse, coach's rules knowledge or their ability to explain it. Although I have seen it from the umpire side too.

I don't know LL rules as far as MPR etc.

These are 15 year olds, probably playing JV ball in HS. This was also an end of season tournament and I just couldn't understand how this has never come up in one of his previous games.

And yes, I have heard some umpires say idiotic things at times.

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My question is has anybody ever seen anybody picked off on a 3-1 move by the pitcher? I don't think I ever have.
My son picked off four this way as a h.s. junior, including the same guy twice; he had two more as a senior. His school would routinely pull the play twice in a row, and that's how R1 gets sucked in. He got one R1 by doing it three times in a row, after throwing over several times before that.

It works if you do it twice in a row. I think I've seen it work straight-up one time ever.

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I don't know LL rules as far as MPR etc.

These are 15 year olds, probably playing JV ball in HS. This was also an end of season tournament and I just couldn't understand how this has never come up in one of his previous games.

And yes, I have heard some umpires say idiotic things at times.

LL's MPR doesn't allow a sub to be removed until he has met the 1 AB/6 defensive outs. You can still replace a sub with a sub, just not right away. LL doesn't stop at 12, it has a system through 18.

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LL's MPR doesn't allow a sub to be removed until he has met the 1 AB/6 defensive outs. You can still replace a sub with a sub, just not right away. LL doesn't stop at 12, it has a system through 18.

Actually, in regular season rules you can. It's grounds for a protest for not meeting MPR but it's not illegal. And there's no MPR in Big League (17-18).

In the tournament you can't remove a sub until he's played 1AB and 3CDO (the MPR in the tournament).

OTOH, in regular season a sub, once removed, cannot re-enter. In the tournament a sub can re-enter.

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I don't understand the point of the question.

RH R1 can't raise to the balance point and then throw to first; LH R1 can't raise to the balance point and then throw to third. Only the former is relevant for this discussion.

Where does the rule differentiate between the handedness of the pitcher?

Why do you believe a LHP can raise and throw to first but a RHP cannot?

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Where does the rule differentiate between the handedness of the pitcher?

There's not one to determine right-handed or left-handed. There are rules on which foot is your pivot, though. I'd love to see a guy throwing with his right hand use his left foot as his pivot.

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There's not one to determine right-handed or left-handed. There are rules on which foot is your pivot, though. I'd love to see a guy throwing with his right hand use his left foot as his pivot.

See: The Rules of Professional Baseball by Jaksa and Roder

- Chapter 2H. Miscellaneous Definitions "Pivot Foot: A right-handed pitcher's right foot and a left-handed pitcher's left foot."

See: More than 100 Problems with the Official Baseball Rules by Rick Roder

- It's mentioned in problem 12 Page 24 "Taking all warm-up pitches with a single arm is to be considered a declaration of the pitcher's intent to pitch with that arm until further notice. When a pitcher has decided to switch arms, he must inform the plate umpire, and must do so before the batter steps into the batter's box."

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Where does the rule differentiate between the handedness of the pitcher?

Why do you believe a LHP can raise and throw to first but a RHP cannot?

Are you implying that the RHP can raise to the balance point and then throw to first? You've posted a lot here, and you (usually) know what you're talking about, so I can't believe that's it.

I don't have any reference material with me, but the rules do not differentiate specifically between the handedness of the pitcher. In practice there's a difference (or mirror image) because of the way they face.

NCAA rules contain a specific statement the once the free foot is raised, the pitcher can only throw to the base being faced, home, or second. The rule / interpretation is the same in OBR.

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NCAA rules contain a specific statement the once the free foot is raised, the pitcher can only throw to the base being faced, home, or second. The rule / interpretation is the same in OBR.

So how does a RHP make a pickoff to first? Let's see you step without raising your foot.

The NCAA rules are contradictory because it's also legal to step to a base on a pick, no matter if you're facing it or not.

For OBR the MLBUM says in making a step the pitcher MUST lift his foot from the ground, and makes no differentation as to the handedness of the pitcher.

MLBUM 7.7 In stepping to a base, the pitcher must lift his entire non- pivot foot off the ground and bring it down in a location different from where it started and toward the base. The entire non-pivot foot must move in a direction and distance to the base. This will constitute a step. The pitcher is not allowed to lift his non-pivot foot up and bring it back down in the same spot where it started. In stepping, the heel of the pitcher's free foot may not end up in the same spot it started.

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NCAA rules contain a specific statement the once the free foot is raised, the pitcher can only throw to the base being faced, home, or second. The rule / interpretation is the same in OBR.

Not true for OBR. It is plausible for when the free foot is raised towards its balance position. Incorrect overall.

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  • 1 month later...

I don't know if it has been posted or not, so please excuse my ignorance if it has (I did not feel like reading through 95+ other posts) but it seems like every single time there is a foul tip and a runner steals (and of course the catcher is going to throw the ball out into centerfield), the coach comes out and wants me to send the runner back to their base bacause it was a foul ball. Unfortunately, after explaining this to the coaches, a lot of them still do not get the concept! SAD!

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I don't know if it has been posted or not, so please excuse my ignorance if it has (I did not feel like reading through 95+ other posts) but it seems like every single time there is a foul tip and a runner steals (and of course the catcher is going to throw the ball out into centerfield), the coach comes out and wants me to send the runner back to their base bacause it was a foul ball. Unfortunately, after explaining this to the coaches, a lot of them still do not get the concept! SAD!

Oh this is very true, I had to explain this to NAIA college coach this past year! :D

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I don't know if it has been posted or not, so please excuse my ignorance if it has (I did not feel like reading through 95+ other posts) but it seems like every single time there is a foul tip and a runner steals (and of course the catcher is going to throw the ball out into centerfield), the coach comes out and wants me to send the runner back to their base bacause it was a foul ball. Unfortunately, after explaining this to the coaches, a lot of them still do not get the concept! SAD!

Yes. A friend of mine who I've worked with set up this website, ostensibly to 'help' coaches understand some rules, but he's told me that his real purpose is to make HIS life easier so he doesn't have to repeat himself as often. He addresses this specific topic on this page.

I have thought about printing this out and just handing it to coaches when they come out to argue foul tips, but that would probably be too condescending so I just keep repeating myself..sometimes more than once a game:shrug:

By the way, I've tried talking my friend into joining this site, but he's worried that doing so will look like he's just doing so to promote himself so he hasn't, but I'll keep working on him. He knows more about rules than any other partner I've ever worked with.

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Yes. A friend of mine who I've worked with set up this website, ostensibly to 'help' coaches understand some rules, but he's told me that his real purpose is to make HIS life easier so he doesn't have to repeat himself as often.

This looks like a great site. I will pass the info/link around.

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  • 2 weeks later...

id have to agree with base awards being the most unknown rule. I work mostly intramural games so there are a ton of overthrows. i have never once had a coach who fully understood the rules for base awards. they dont understand first play by an infielder, bases being awarded from the time of the throw, or the concept of an acquired base. whenever i tell a coach that a ball thrown out of play always results in 2 bases for each runner, and all that is in question is from when, they look at me like im crazy.

another unknown rule is the 3 base award for a batted ball being touched by a players equipment. like a glove being throw at a ball over an infielders head.

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