Lhaber9

I had a travel game the other day. The game was on a turf field. next to the door in the gate there is a concrete section and a section where parents and fans sit, this area is all dead ball area. With a runner on second and third and 1 out, the batter pops the ball into foul territory near the third base dugout. The third baseman runs over and makes the catch. The runner on third is off the bag and instead of throwing to the second baseman covering at third, the third baseman decides to chase the runner. With the ball in his non-glove hand he reaches out to tag the runner. in the process the ball is knocked out of the fielders hands and it rolls into the area where the parents are sitting. Dead Ball. What is the correct placement of the runners in this scenario? its not the first play by an infielder so 2 bases and both runners score? Thanks

id have to agree with base awards being the most unknown rule. I work mostly intramural games so there are a ton of overthrows. i have never once had a coach who fully understood the rules for base awards. they dont understand first play by an infielder, bases being awarded from the time of the throw, or the concept of an acquired base. whenever i tell a coach that a ball thrown out of play always results in 2 bases for each runner, and all that is in question is from when, they look at me like im crazy. another unknown rule is the 3 base award for a batted ball being touched by a players equipment. like a glove being throw at a ball over an infielders head.

so say the throw comes from the catcher, goes over the runners shoulder and the first basemen drops the ball. If you rule that he would have caught it if hte runner wasnt there, its interference?

It seems to me that you just described the purpose of the rule. You said that it doesnt decieve him if he takes off on first movement. If this rule was not in place you could spin to first and trick the runner if hes going on first movement.

i have thought about going to one of the professional umpire schools after high school. i thought mabye i could take a year off between high school and college and go to on eof the schools for part of that year. is that a good time to go? is there an age requierment or something like that?

the only reason i could see for the coach arguing the call, is that in order for the base award to be one base the pitcher must throw from the rubber. There are multiple pickoffs to firstbase for a right handed pitcher. you can step off the rubber, spin and throw. or you can do what i call a spin step where you dont completely disengage from the rubber. for a lefty you can just lift your right leg, step to first and throw. If it was the first one, the pitcher is no longer throwing from the rubber so it would be a base award of 2 bases. This is how i understand the rule, correct me if i am wrong. one more thing about the different pickoffs to first. if the pitcher does the first pickoff move (disengaging the rubber then spinning and throwing), it is not a balk if they dont throw right? say they just disengage the rubber and spin but dont raise their arm or pretend to throw. that is legal, correct? however if they fake a throw then it is a balk. also during either of the other two pickoff methods that i mentioned the ball must be thrown or it is a balk.

when a base coach assists a runner, do you declare the runner out immediately or at he end of the play as stated in the OP? doesn't the rulebook say the penalty for interference it that the runner is out and the ball is dead? does this mean that when a base coach assists a runner the umpire should call the play dead and declare the runner out? this would mean no other runners could advance on the play. also, what if the runner when rounding third trips over the third base coach. this is obviously not assisting the runner so nothing would happen right?

I just thought of something else in regards to the original post that i made. Say after the throw went to third, the runner who was on first rounded third, before the throw got to the third baseman. I know this seems unlikely. But if the ball were to go out of play does the runner go back to third? What if the third baseman were to intentionaly let it go out of play? Is the call different?

one time i was working a 12-13 year old game. it was a 2 man game and i was behind home plate. with one out and a runner on third, there was a ground ball to SS. he looked the runner back, and then threw to first. The first baseman caught the ball and was very clearly off the base. i could see it from where i was standing. My partner made what i thought was a very clear safe call, he spread his arms wide and then motioned that the F3 was off the base. Meanwhile, R3 had broke home. F3 threw home and got R3 out on a close play. after my out call, for reasons i do not understand, all of the fielders began running off the field. i think that this was because one or two kids started running and the rest followed because there was no way they all thought they had the out at first. Anyway, the BR advanced to second on the throw home and after the catcher threw the ball towards the pitchers mound as if it was the end of the inning, the BR kept on running. he scored about the time that the pitcher started to go into the dugout. By now the fielding coach was confused. he asked me what had happened and i told him that the call at first was safe, the fielder was off the bag before he received the ball. He went nuts. he started yelling out to my partner saying it was a bad call and whatever. I told him that was enough, any more and he was gone, and he stopped right away. i would have tossed him pretty quickly though because i have had him before when he got riled up. one story ends with him laying in center field for 15 minutes by himself in between a double header. One more funny thing about this coach was that after his team got killed in the playoff game, he came up to me and my partner and took a picture with his camera phone of each of our faces, which i thought was very funny. The head umpire was right there and started yelling at him for it.

This is my favorite misconception. this is what every little league coach has told me and they are all wrong. base awards on a throw from a fielder are always 2 bases. 1 base awards only happen on throws from the pitcher (if he is on the mound). If the pitcher disengages the pitchers plate, turns and throws over F3 out of play, its 2 bases. but if the pitcher uses a spin move, or brings his leg straight up and throws to third out of play, it is one base. For example in the yankees game during the playoffs last week, the yankees pitcher pitched the ball, it bouned off the catcher and went out of play, it was a one base award. One other time that there is a one base award is if a fielder catches a ball and in doing so falls over a side wall completly out of play. With less than 2 outs this is a one base award for all runners. i dont know of any more 1 base award but i would be interested in hearing more. Also, does anyone know about 3 base awards? im pretty sure that if a fielder removes their gloves and throws it at a ball in play, and the glove makes contact with the ball, it is a dead ball and three basesfor all runners. Is this correct? thanks

I was looking for the answer to where to place the runners in this scenario. With a runner on first no outs, the batter hits a fly ball to right field. R1 stays close to the bag (believing it may be caught). BR charges down the line. The ball is not caught in right field and R1 starts running to second. F9 picks up the ball and throws wildly towards third base to stop R1 from advancing. At the time of the throw both R1 and BR are between 1B and 2B because of R1's late break. The ball sails over third base out of play. Place the runners. On a throw from the outfield each runner should get 2 bases from the time that the fielder releases the ball. This would place both runners at third. Would you place the runners at second and third? or would R1 score and BR be at third? what would happen in this situation?

no i was responding to a regular game, not necessarily a little league game. i think i may have gotten confused with another rule. in the same situation i said but instead of a quick pitch there was catcher interference called on the batters swing, the batter popped the ball to right and R3 scored on a sac fly. Then i believe it would be a decision for the offensive manager. I got this confused with the quick pitch? does this sound better? or am i just wrong completely?

in this case i would indicate that it was a quick pitch by saying it out loud, but allow the play to happen. if the hitter gets a hit, that hit counts. the offensive manager can elect to either take the quick pitch or the resulting play. for example, Runners on first and third. the pitches commits a quick pitch, but the batter hits it to right field. on the catch the runner on third tags and scores. in this situation the umpire should ask the offensive manager if he wants the sac fly and resulting run, or if he wants the bases loaded with one less out. sometimes the decision will be obvious, for example if the batter were to hit a homerun it is obvious which the manger would choose. in that situation you do not need to ask the offensive manager.

For the obstruction call, i think i would call this if the SS yelling "foul ball" caused the runner to retreat to first and was tagged out. in this case when he started to retreat to first base i would signal obstruction and award the runner second, not third because he would not have advanced to third had there been no obstruction. Although, a smart runner will not leave the bag until the umpire tells him to do so. in a LL game i wouldn't call the obstruction if the runner simply said "that wasnt foul" and stayed where he was.