Obstruction

[Thunderheads]

typical, run down OBS....always cool to see .....

Edited July 31, 2015 by Thunderheads

[noumpere]

Great comments by the announcers.  Not.

 

I'm sorry I messed up and left the sound on.

[UmpJeff]

Great comments by the announcers.  Not.

 

I'm sorry I messed up and left the sound on.

My ears are bleeding, too!

[Thunderheads]

I only watched!!!!!! 

[UmpJeff]

I only watched!!!!!! 

Lucky you...

[maven]

That's Rick Manning, Indians color guy (and '76 Gold Glove CF). Like most former players, the next rule he learns will be his first.

This is type A OBS: the ball is dead, the obstructed runner is advanced to the next base, and other runners return to the last base legally touched unless they were affected by the OBS.

[Rich Ives]

 

This is type A OBS: the ball is dead, the obstructed runner is advanced to the next base, and other runners return to the last base legally touched unless they were affected by the OBS.

A better way of saying it: Other runners get whatever base the umpires thought they would have attained if there had been no obstruction.

 

(1) If a play is being made on the obstructed runner, or if the
batter-runner is obstructed before he touches first base,
the ball is dead and all runners shall advance, without liability
to be put out, to the bases they would have reached,
in the umpire’s judgment, if there had been no obstruction.
The obstructed runner shall be awarded at least one
base beyond the base he had last legally touched before
the obstruction. Any preceding runners, forced to
advance by the award of bases as the penalty for obstruction,
shall advance without liability to be put out.

[Packerbacker]

I don't see that "other runners return to the last base legally touched unless they were affected by the OBS" equates to "all runners shall advance, without liability to be put out, to the bases they would have reached, in the umpire’s judgment, if there had been no obstruction." Is there an interpretation that says that the latter language (from OBR and from Little League, which is all that I do) should be implemented in accordance with the former language? Note, for example, that the batter/runner in this play was well on his way to 2B, and one could imagine a play where say the batter/runner was barely short of the base at the time of the obstruction. 

[johnnyg08]

I don't see that "other runners return to the last base legally touched unless they were affected by the OBS" equates to "all runners shall advance, without liability to be put out, to the bases they would have reached, in the umpire’s judgment, if there had been no obstruction." Is there an interpretation that says that the latter language (from OBR and from Little League, which is all that I do) should be implemented in accordance with the former language? Note, for example, that the batter/runner in this play was well on his way to 2B, and one could imagine a play where say the batter/runner was barely short of the base at the time of the obstruction. 

The umpires will place the other runners where they see fit.  

[maven]

I don't see that "other runners return to the last base legally touched unless they were affected by the OBS" equates to "all runners shall advance, without liability to be put out, to the bases they would have reached, in the umpire’s judgment, if there had been no obstruction." Is there an interpretation that says that the latter language (from OBR and from Little League, which is all that I do) should be implemented in accordance with the former language? Note, for example, that the batter/runner in this play was well on his way to 2B, and one could imagine a play where say the batter/runner was barely short of the base at the time of the obstruction. 

My paraphrase is intended to convey exactly the same meaning. I apologize if that doesn't come through (I still think that they're equivalent). Coach doesn't like my paraphrase either, but the reason I like it is that it provides a baseline: runners get their last legally touched base UNLESS they were hindered by the OBS (in which case nullifying the OBS will require advancing them).

Some think that, as a general rule, if one runner is obstructed, all runners must be put on their advance bases. That's false.

In this play, the BR's advance was not slowed by the OBS. When the ball became dead, he had legally touched 1B, and it doesn't matter whether he was 30 feet or 3 feet from 2B. Since he was not obstructed, there's no reason to advance him to 2B: such an award is not part of the penalty for OBS, which requires the umpires to nullify the impact of the OBS.

Note that this issue does not arise for FED, where all OBS is type 2. Other runners may continue to advance until the end of playing action, at which point umpires award bases for obstructed runners. Since the ball doesn't become dead on OBS in FED, there's no issue of where to put a runner who is between bases when the ball becomes dead.

[Rich Ives]

My paraphrase is intended to convey exactly the same meaning. I apologize if that doesn't come through (I still think that they're equivalent). Coach doesn't like my paraphrase either, but the reason I like it is that it provides a baseline: runners get their last legally touched base UNLESS they were hindered by the OBS (in which case nullifying the OBS will require advancing them).

Some think that, as a general rule, if one runner is obstructed, all runners must be put on their advance bases. That's false.

In this play, the BR's advance was not slowed by the OBS. When the ball became dead, he had legally touched 1B, and it doesn't matter whether he was 30 feet or 3 feet from 2B. Since he was not obstructed, there's no reason to advance him to 2B: such an award is not part of the penalty for OBS, which requires the umpires to nullify the impact of the OBS.

Note that this issue does not arise for FED, where all OBS is type 2. Other runners may continue to advance until the end of playing action, at which point umpires award bases for obstructed runners. Since the ball doesn't become dead on OBS in FED, there's no issue of where to put a runner who is between bases when the ball becomes dead.

If there had been no obstruction, which rendered the ball immediately dead, the ball would have remained live. Would the BR  then have reached 2B? If the umpire thinks so he can advance him to 2B.

[noumpere]

I hate to disagree with Maven, but I have to this time.

 

As I read your phrasing, I do NOT think it's identical to the rule; and I disagree with your ruling in your example (BR 3' from second being returned to first).

I did not go back and re-watch the OP, so I have no comment on the ruling in that play.

[basejester]

 

In this play, the BR's advance was not slowed by the OBS. When the ball became dead, he had legally touched 1B, and it doesn't matter whether he was 30 feet or 3 feet from 2B. Since he was not obstructed, there's no reason to advance him to 2B: such an award is not part of the penalty for OBS, which requires the umpires to nullify the impact of the OBS.

The others in this thread are reading "if there had been no obstruction," to include the consequence of killing the play.  If there hadn't been obstruction, the umpires wouldn't have killed the play, and the runners would have continued to whatever base.

The way you're interpreting it (that the actual act of obstruction on one runner slowed the second, like they tripped and all piled up), the umpire would basically never advance other runners.  It would be so rare that they would probably have written the rule with your prefered paraphrased language if that was the intent of the writers.

[indianaumpire15]

So this is a soft spot for me.  I'm good at seeing obstruction and calling it but most of my games are FED, so there is no killing the play.  So why is the BR returned to 1B even though he was very close to 2B here?  It is because without the obstruction he would have not advanced past 1B to begin with?  Thanks in advance.

[noumpere]

So this is a soft spot for me.  I'm good at seeing obstruction and calling it but most of my games are FED, so there is no killing the play.  So why is the BR returned to 1B even though he was very close to 2B here?  It is because without the obstruction he would have not advanced past 1B to begin with?  Thanks in advance.

Either because the umpires on the game take Maven's approach or because they missed the call or because they had different judgment on where the runner would have ended up.

[Mizzou2016]

So this is a soft spot for me.  I'm good at seeing obstruction and calling it but most of my games are FED, so there is no killing the play.  So why is the BR returned to 1B even though he was very close to 2B here?  It is because without the obstruction he would have not advanced past 1B to begin with?  Thanks in advance.

Jim Evans Official Interp: Following obstruction, a trailing runner is awarded the next base if he is at least halfway to that base at the time of obstruction.

In this case, the umpire determined at the time of obstruction the BR was not halfway - it was probably pretty close. As a general rule though, base awards are pretty conservative at the Major League level