Feint & Throw FED

[Jack_Wick]

In OBR if you fake to 2B, without stepping off your pivot foot from the rubber in doing so, you can no longer throw to any other base, including 2B, right?

But how would it work in FED? Fake a throw to 2B, without stepping off (not legal in OBR but legal in FED), and could you turn in any direction and then throw to either 1B or 3B?

From 2019 NFHS case book plays 6.2.4:

 

6.2.4 Situation C With R3 and R1, F1 comes set. He then feints toward third, or he removes one hand from the ball and makes an arm motion toward third but does not step toward third. He follows with a throw to first base. RULING: This is a balk. F1 must step toward third base when feinting there. F1 may not feint to first base. He must step toward the base and throw. He might, while he is on the plate, step toward occupied third and feint a throw, and then turn to step toward first and throw there with or without disengaging the pitcher’s plate. If F1 steps and feints to first, he must first disengage the pitcher’s plate or he is guilty of a balk.

 

 

So, a pitcher with his foot pointing toward 2B, after faking a pickoff, regardless of windup or set position, could, without stepping off the rubber, throw to bases 2B/1B or 3B by turning in any direction, that is: 

A. To 1B, could the pitcher turn before throwing, either 90° clockwise or 270° counterclockwise? 

B. To 2B, either directly, but does he have to step again first or not? Or do a 360° turn, either clockwise or counterclockwise, and throw to 2B? 

C. To 3B, either 90° counterclockwise or 270° counterclockwise and then throw to third base?

[grayhawk]

It's not realistic. There are two ways to feint to 2B. The inside move and the reverse pivot. In either case, the pitcher will break contact with the rubber which is the same as disengaging. I know they call it the "Spaghetti move," but pitchers aren't really made of spaghetti. 

[The Man in Blue]

On 11/8/2025 at 11:41 AM, grayhawk said:

It's not realistic. There are two ways to feint to 2B. The inside move and the reverse pivot. In either case, the pitcher will break contact with the rubber which is the same as disengaging. I know they call it the "Spaghetti move," but pitchers aren't really made of spaghetti. 

As a former catcher, I would disagree.

 

My insight into pitchers' brains is that at least some, if not many, of them are indeed made of spaghetti.

[BigBlue4u]

On 11/8/2025 at 3:54 AM, Jack_Wick said:

To 2B, either directly, but does he have to step again first or not? Or do a 360° turn, either clockwise or counterclockwise, and throw to 2B? 

Jack,

The rule is pretty specific:  "Balk...failing to step with the non-pivot directly toward a base.. So, yes he has to step again

[Jack_Wick]

On 11/8/2025 at 6:41 PM, grayhawk said:

It's not realistic. There are two ways to feint to 2B. The inside move and the reverse pivot. In either case, the pitcher will break contact with the rubber which is the same as disengaging. I know they call it the "Spaghetti move," but pitchers aren't really made of spaghetti. 

It's not that unrealistic. If a pitcher fakes and his pivot foot stays attached to the rubber, he's still a pitcher.

13 hours ago, BigBlue4u said:

Jack,

The rule is pretty specific:  "Balk...failing to step with the non-pivot directly toward a base.. So, yes he has to step again

In FED, if you fake to 2B, you can step and throw to 2B or any other base. Unlike OBR, you don't have to step off the rubber. Well, what I'm asking is, once you've faked to 2B (but still engaged), can you turn in any direction (either clockwise or counterclockwise) and then step and throw anywhere? In my opinion, the moves I wrote above are all legal; why should they be illegal?

[grayhawk]

4 hours ago, Jack_Wick said:

It's not that unrealistic. If a pitcher fakes and his pivot foot stays attached to the rubber, he's still a pitcher.

In 15 years, I have never seen it. Really, try to do this. Gain ground to 2B with your free foot and stay on the rubber. Beware, however. You might tear a ligament. This is baseball, not Twister. It is unrealistic. 

[Jack_Wick]

@maven @noumpere

What do you think?

Thank you so much.

[maven]

You've got the answer.

You seem to want to argue with every answer you get here. Good luck with that.

[Velho]

1 hour ago, maven said:

You seem to want to argue with every answer you get here. Good luck with that.

The toaster you're engaging with isn't attempting to reach a conclusion.

[Jack_Wick]

3 hours ago, maven said:

You've got the answer.

You seem to want to argue with every answer you get here. Good luck with that.

No, no one answered. The question is simple: After a fake to 2B in FED, it is allowed to turn, step, and throw to any base, even if one is still engaged. The point is, can the pitcher turn in any direction?

For example, if he fakes to 2B, still engaged, from that position he turns 270° clockwise, steps, and throws to 3B?

[Jack_Wick]

@noumpere

@maven

 

If anyone of good will would like to answer my questions, these are the questions: 

 

FED Rules 

 

1. A RHP fakes a pickoff to 2B, still engaged at the rubber, and then he can throw to bases 2B/1B or 3B by turning in any direction?

 

1.1. To 1B, could the pitcher turn before throwing, either 90° clockwise or 270° counterclockwise? 

 

1.2. To 2B, either directly, but does he have to step again first or not? Or can he also do a 360° turn, either clockwise or counterclockwise, and throw to 2B? 

 

1.3. To 3B, either 90° counterclockwise or 270° counterclockwise and then throw to third base? 

 

2. Once the RHP has faked to 2B, what must he do before he can throw to home plate again? Should he step off the rubber first or can he turn around, get into position and, without ever disengaging from the rubber, maybe take a break and then start his pitch move

ment again?

 

[noumpere]

This has all been covered before.

F1, facing the plate (generally speaking), can:

• turn to his left and throw to first
• turn to his right and throw or feint to third.
• turn to his right or left and throw or feint to second

F1, who has feinted to second and remains in contact with the rubber, can:

• turn to his right and throw to first
• turn to his left and throw or feint to third

F1, who has feinted to second and then breaks contact with the rubber, can:

• run at any base / runner
• throw to any base / fielder
• drop his hands and re-engage the rubber in preparation to start the whole process over again.

[Jack_Wick]

19 hours ago, noumpere said:

This has all been covered before.

F1, facing the plate (generally speaking), can:

• turn to his left and throw to first
• turn to his right and throw or feint to third.
• turn to his right or left and throw or feint to second

F1, who has feinted to second and remains in contact with the rubber, can:

• turn to his right and throw to first
• turn to his left and throw or feint to third

F1, who has feinted to second and then breaks contact with the rubber, can:

• run at any base / runner
• throw to any base / fielder
• drop his hands and re-engage the rubber in preparation to start the whole process over again.

Ok, perfect as usual. 

A. But why in F1, who has feinted to second and remains in contact with the rubber, could not also: 

• Turn to his left (a 270° rotation) and throw to first base
• Turn to his right (a 270° rotation) and throw or feint to third base ?

 

B. Once he has feinted to second and remains in contact, how should he get back in condition to pitch to home base? Can he reposition himself and, perhaps after a pause, pitch to home base, or should he necessarily step off the rubber and re-engage with the rubber?

[noumpere]

A) Because it's not a direct move to the base. 

B) Asked and answered.

[Jack_Wick]

3 hours ago, noumpere said:

A) Because it's not a direct move to the base. 

Ok. But if RHP fakes to 3B and, after that, he could turn either clockwise or counterclockwise and then step towards 1B and throws to 1B, right?

 

3 hours ago, noumpere said:

B) Asked and answered.

So he should step off the rubber and then he should re-engage with it, right? Couldn't he do otherwise?

[Aging_Arbiter]

[concertman1971]

1. Pick up the rule book.

2 Turn to page 42 (2025 NFHS) Read Article 3.

3 Turn to page 44, read Article 4.f

4 take (yet) another drink of whatever booze you have been consuming