If you show up at a field on-time and they cancel it after you're already there, should you expect to be paid?

[orangebird]

So yesterday I had a 5:15 first pitch at a facility with several fields with one of my rec ball orgs. The facility's setup includes having non-umpire adults with the org on-site to make a facility-wide decision on calling games for rain and sure enough, they called the games pretty close to first pitch (about 5:10) and after the umpires were suggested to show up. 

So...is the expectation that if you show up for a game and it gets called about 5 minutes before first pitch, you still get paid?

I haven't gotten confirmation on the pay either way, but figured I should ask here first just to get an idea.

[BLWizzRanger]

Yes. Full game fees unless there is an agreement beforehand. If they waited 5 minutes before game time and the teams, parents, and umpires are there, thats just bad management, IMHO.

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[mw94]

1 minute ago, mw94 said:

 

Like the man says F*#K you PAY me!!!!

[orangebird]

6 minutes ago, BLWizzRanger said:

Yes. Full game fees unless there is an agreement beforehand. If they waited 5 minutes before game time and the teams, parents, and umpires are there, thats just bad management, IMHO.

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Yeah it was raining the whole ride down so it's not like it caught them by surprise the fields would be a bit muddy at first pitch 

[grayhawk]

[grayhawk]

The way it generally works is if you are in your car on the way to the game and they cancel it, you get half game fee. If you are at the game site and they cancel, full game fee.

[Jay R.]

Agree with @Grayhawk on that being a typical setup.

I will say that a Little League I worked in had a standard that the half-game fee was in place until the plate meeting. 

[SeeingEyeDog]

@orangebird, life is about what you can prove AND what's in the contract, right?

Your EXPECTATION as an umpire and a human being is one thing...what is actually IN the contract between the league and your umpire association or whomever assigns you is QUITE another thing.

Yes, the common "culture" of the officiating world is...Have you left home? You have earned half-pay. Have you had at least ONE pitch? You have earned FULL pay. Again, that's IF your contract is worded that way. And yes, you should ONLY be working for people who have WRITTEN and SIGNED contracts in place. Without it, the line level umpire is cooked and WILL be taken advantage of!

My association also has a clause in all contracts that says any cancellation PRIOR to 2 hours before scheduled start time means no fee is due. And any cancellation INSIDE 2 hours before scheduled start time means FULL FEE is due. Moving a game INSIDE 2 hours before scheduled start time constitutes a NEW game booking so, that would mean TWO full fees are due for the umpires. One for the game originally scheduled that wasn't played for league/team reasons and then the NEW game booking (subject to all previously mentioned contract clauses).

~Dawg

[orangebird]

5 minutes ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

@orangebird, life is about what you can prove AND what's in the contract, right?

Your EXPECTATION as an umpire and a human being is one thing...what is actually IN the contract between the league and your umpire association or whomever assigns you is QUITE another thing.

Yes, the common "culture" of the officiating world is...Have you left home? You have earned half-pay. Have you had at least ONE pitch? You have earned FULL pay. Again, that's IF your contract is worded that way. And yes, you should ONLY be working for people who have WRITTEN and SIGNED contracts in place. Without it, the line level umpire is cooked and WILL be taken advantage of!

My association also has a clause in all contracts that says any cancellation PRIOR to 2 hours before scheduled start time means no fee is due. And any cancellation INSIDE 2 hours before scheduled start time means FULL FEE is due. Moving a game INSIDE 2 hours before scheduled start time constitutes a NEW game booking so, that would mean TWO full fees are due for the umpires. One for the game originally scheduled that wasn't played for league/team reasons and then the NEW game booking (subject to all previously mentioned contract clauses).

~Dawg

Yeah I'm afraid to report I don't think there's any sort of document outlining the procedure there and I just did control+F for "umpire" in the league rules just to double check 

[grayhawk]

50 minutes ago, orangebird said:

Yeah I'm afraid to report I don't think there's any sort of document outlining the procedure there and I just did control+F for "umpire" in the league rules just to double check 

Who assigns the games? Check with him.

[orangebird]

5 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

Who assigns the games? Check with him.

I will tomorrow, just wanted to get an idea of if it was reasonable expectation before I asked 

[The Man in Blue]

That is a terrible way to manage your rain-out procedures.  Sadly, for many parks it is the only way unless they have somebody who is there during the day or can check the field during the day.

Back when I ran our local program, we made every effort to either call or confirm games by 4pm (6pm start).  Being the Midwest, there were times when we would push that a little bit, but our messaging always included a specific time that we would make the call.  Sometimes popup storms happen, sometimes our field guy was working his butt of to get the fields playable.  We were fortunate though, that the village provided one of the village workers with time to do that.  We didn't have to wait until the first person who could get off work got there.

As for the umpire aspect, as has been covered, you should be paid a full game fee if you were there at the time they contracted you to report. 

This is one of those areas where we need to "professionalize" our business better.

[JSam21]

I will echo what has been said before. It all depends on the contract. 

For me, my high school stuff is 1/2 game fee if the game is canceled and we are on site. There are specific things we have to do though. We have to document that we attempted to call and email the home AD before leaving our homes. If we can't do that, then we don't get paid. 

College, if we are on site when they are canceled before first pitch, we get a full game fee. One coordinator that I work for only assigns single days. So we try to get the schools to make calls early to prevent members of our crews from having to drive over an hour to get on site. 

Had the latter one happen this past weekend. Arrived at 10:30am for a 12pm start (all turf field). 11am, rain starts. 11:40, put on a delay. 1pm, whacked. Full game fee. 

[orangebird]

Just reached out, league policy is you need to work at least one pitch to get paid

 

[BLWizzRanger]

 

That stanks.

[grayhawk]

1 hour ago, orangebird said:

Just reached out, league policy is you need to work at least one pitch to get paid

ZERO respect for your time. You likely drive 15-30 minutes (maybe more) to get to the game, probably arrive no less than 45 minutes before game time, and have to drive 15-30 minutes home. That's 2 hours of your time that the league has decided is worth nothing.

[orangebird]

They said they're making up the games, so I'd guess their budget doesn't include that much room to double pay people and I'm a bit forgiving there. However...it was raining for a good 30 minutes before first pitch where I think you could've figured it out the fields were gonna be mud earlier than 5 minutes before first pitch.

[The Man in Blue]

There is a valid point to be made there, @orangebird, and it isn't the point they think we are trying to make.

I totally understand that small programs don't have large budgets.  Hell, I ate $300 (+ multiple returned check fees) from an organization who was pressing charges on a treasurer who cleaned out their accounts.  They offered to pay me when they got back on their feet, but I told them to keep it and let me help them with their organizational policies to prevent it from happening again.

It isn't about the money.  It is about the lack of respect.   They will never get that if we don't speak up.

 

[Thatsnotyou]

Lack of respect is exactly the issue. Our time isn’t valued (and we’re already underpaid for said time). We’re treated like bases. We magically show up every game, but the part they don’t see:

- Depending on job, waking up earlier/getting to work earlier so you can likely…

- Leaving work earlier. Possibly making up work later that night or another day.

- Drive there and back. Missing time with family, kid activities etc.  

- Arrive a half hour prior so we are ready at game time. 
 

Two of the things that really irk me: 

- Teams showing up late, therefore games starting late. 

- Teams lollygagging when late and taking I/O when we’re already past game time. And we’re just supposed to deal with it. 
 

It’s baseball. Play catch, few stretches and you’re good. Get your pitcher warm (which he can also finish while his team bats T1). I/O is a luxury that shouldn’t take place if game time doesn’t allow it. I/O is practice, it doesn’t do anything to prevent injury. No, your backup 3B doesn’t need 4 ground balls. 

 

At every turn, the umpires wear these issues. The teams don’t suffer, the assignors don’t suffer, it’s only the umpires. The pay scale needs to change for games starting late and/or extra innings. There is no reason we can’t end regular season games in a tie. It’s not fair to expect (hopefully) a two hour game for that to turn into three hours. And all underclass games should have a time limit or hard stop.
 

With all the above things factored in, I think that if I was a new underclass HS umpire, I simply wouldn’t last long. If I wanted to officiate, I’d simply pick a different sport. I don’t know how many times I could watch a bus show up late, to start late, to work by myself, to have the game take forever with no limit…for not enough of a game fee as it is. 

 

[JonnyCat]

10 hours ago, Thatsnotyou said:

for not enough of a game fee as it is. 

This exactly! One of the main reasons there's a shortage of umpires.

[stevis]

On 5/3/2025 at 7:36 PM, Jay R. said:

Agree with @Grayhawk on that being a typical setup.

I will say that a Little League I worked in had a standard that the half-game fee was in place until the plate meeting. 

I pay our kids if they show up in uniform.  (And they were supposed to--our county controls our fields, and if they close them at 3pm--no dice, I told you to pay attention.)

Show up to find the field unplayable, or our idiot wonderful volunteer commissioners forgot to tell us the game was rescheduled, enjoy your easy money.

[Thatsnotyou]

I did it to myself after that post. Today the visiting team shows up precisely at game time, start 25 minutes late. 
 

At what point do we just all write down “Thursday afternoon” and everyone show up whenever, including umpires? 

[johnnyg08]

On 5/5/2025 at 1:53 PM, orangebird said:

They said they're making up the games, so I'd guess their budget doesn't include that much room to double pay people and I'm a bit forgiving there. However...it was raining for a good 30 minutes before first pitch where I think you could've figured it out the fields were gonna be mud earlier than 5 minutes before first pitch.

Yep. I agree with this...which is why our umpires now earn full game fee upon arrival. 

Now...what that doesn't mean is that if it's raining sheets and it's going to pour for the next hour and you drive to the site w/o calling or checking in just to get paid...that's a no.

We recommend calling/emailing, telling them that you plan to leave by x:xx, should I leave? 

Then yes...the other team paid a bus, to drive them there...the bus company didn't get paid 1/2 fee. 

We got sick of teams being unable to decide even though the radar that everyone can access shows rain all day...if you're incapable of making that decision, then you're paying us a full fee for our time. 

[Jay R.]

On 5/6/2025 at 11:49 AM, stevis said:

I pay our kids if they show up in uniform.  (And they were supposed to--our county controls our fields, and if they close them at 3pm--no dice, I told you to pay attention.)

Show up to find the field unplayable, or our idiot wonderful volunteer commissioners forgot to tell us the game was rescheduled, enjoy your easy money.

I guess Alexandria pays better, but Arlington's cancellation policy is better

[orangebird]

One Friday later with iffy weather and they've cancelled the day's games before 11 am, so I guess they are able to check the weather and be proactive sometimes lol