Double First Base Play

[grayhawk]

https://x.com/FrogPreacher/status/1893502374158754127

The call was the runner was out and there was no obstruction. Personally, I see the runner clearly slowing down before F3 was in possession of the ball. He also didn't need to occupy that space to field the throw and was blocking BOTH bases. IMO, this should have been obstruction and the BR awarded 1st. What say you?

[BLWizzRanger]

Just when the NCAA thinks it has everything covered, an unicorn flies down and craps all over it....

If the BR takes to the white side, the F3 is getting spiked or twists his ankle so bad that he is out for the rest of the year... where is the safety in that?

[834k3r]

I'll admit I'm not familiar with the intricacies of NCAA rules and safety bases, but I'd have OBS. I don't think F3 has to kneel to catch the ball.

[Richvee]

There's literally no access to the colored bag. BR obviously slows to avoid trucking the fielder and injuring himself ot the rielder. I've got obstruction all day, no matter how many bases are out there...He's blocking them all. And as far as the double base goes, the throw certainly did not pull him into foul ball territory so the that's off the table as well. 

[Velho]

Not sure how you get anything but OBS on that.

Why was F3 on the ground win the first place? Was it a deflected ball off him?

[Replacematt]

While this could very well be obstruction, I feel this angle is not good for seeing exactly what was available to the runner nor is it wide enough to see the whole play (from throwing fielder to F3.)

[grayhawk]

1 hour ago, Replacematt said:

While this could very well be obstruction, I feel this angle is not good for seeing exactly what was available to the runner nor is it wide enough to see the whole play (from throwing fielder to F3.)

I agree it's not the best angle, but do you feel F3 "must occupy" the space he does to receive the throw? That's the only possible way this isn't obstruction, because he clearly hinders the BR before he has possession of the ball. This is going to take up a lot of time on our next zoom.

[Replacematt]

7 hours ago, grayhawk said:

I agree it's not the best angle, but do you feel F3 "must occupy" the space he does to receive the throw? That's the only possible way this isn't obstruction, because he clearly hinders the BR before he has possession of the ball. This is going to take up a lot of time on our next zoom.

That's why I'd like to see the whole play. I doubt he needed that space, but I cannot say for certain without seeing what happened on the front end of the throw.

[The Man in Blue]

I have nothing, play on.  Then again, I can't see the play.  If I can't see it, I can't call it.

 

😉

[Velho]

 

[noumpere]

If only we had a triple first base, this wouldn't happen.

[johnnyg08]

Yeah, I don't like the replay decision here. Frankly, I think they got it wrong. (GASP!) 

F3 literally has two bases and at a full sprint they say with a step to go...well, he could've taken the white base? 

C'mon fellas. That's not a great look. 

[The Man in Blue]

Still haven't seen it (sorry, I won't click on Twitter links), but . . . here is the NCAA rule:

1-7-b2

 

So . . . F3 has NO right to cross AND the BR would have had no right to go to the white.

Note: even if the throw draws F3 over there, they cannot use the colored portion.  The colored portion exists for the defense ONLY on a UK3.

[Richvee]

1 hour ago, The Man in Blue said:

Still haven't seen it (sorry, I won't click on Twitter links), but . . . here is the NCAA rule:

1-7-b2

 

So . . . F3 has NO right to cross AND the BR would have had no right to go to the white.

Note: even if the throw draws F3 over there, they cannot use the colored portion.  The colored portion exists for the defense ONLY on a UK3.

The rule has already been amended heavily with new interps and guidance. 
The BR can use the white base if the throw pulls F3 foul, or to avoid a collision. 

[Richvee]

15 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

BR would have had no right to go to the white

Also, BR can use white If there's no play on the BR going into 1B, he can touch either first time by. Only white on any return to the bag

[beerguy55]

Jesus Christ, if they can't get this right then just use the slow pitch home plate rule...draw a line from the baseline to the dugout for BR to cross before F3 tags first base with the ball.

[Velho]

57 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Jesus Christ, if they can't get this right then just use the slow pitch home plate rule...draw a line from the baseline to the dugout for BR to cross before F3 tags first base with the ball.

Great idea! We can cure bat flips at the same time! #Cricket

Seriously though, yes, it's a change. Get over it. 8U softball players can figure it out you "adults", "pros", "college educated" folks should be able too as well.

[beerguy55]

17 hours ago, Velho said:

8U softball players can figure it out you "adults", "pros", "college educated" folks should be able too as well.

Going by the video, I rest my case...they obviously can't figure it out.  Get the 8 year olds to ump.

[johnnyg08]

Here's a bit of a longer look at the play. With the benefit of replay, it sure looks & feels like obstruction. 

 

[The Man in Blue]

On 2/25/2025 at 10:02 PM, Richvee said:

The rule has already been amended heavily with new interps and guidance. 
The BR can use the white base if the throw pulls F3 foul, or to avoid a collision. 

Why ruin an opportunity to do whatever you want when you have a perfectly easy to understand rule?!

 

[sarcasm]

[The Man in Blue]

Just a theoretical / philosophical challenge . . . 

If we often want to inject the "well they shouldn't have made a bad play, so I'm not bailing them out" mentality, why the heck do we want to allow F3 to use the colored bag for a bad play?  And no . . . it is NOT a safety thing at that point because it is causing the very thing it is meant to prevent: confusion and players crossing.  

IMO, the ONLY time F3 should be allowed to use the colored bag is a UK3.

That was a CLEAR obstruction.  The throw didn't take him there, he set up there for the throw.  He didn't have the ball.  Obstruction all day long.

[Richvee]

3 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

IMO, the ONLY time F3 should be allowed to use the colored bag is a UK3.

It is

[The Man in Blue]

4 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

IMO, the ONLY time F3 should be allowed to use the colored bag is a UK3.

1 hour ago, Richvee said:

It is

 

On 2/25/2025 at 10:02 PM, Richvee said:

The rule has already been amended heavily with new interps and guidance. 
The BR can use the white base if the throw pulls F3 foul, or to avoid a collision. 

So . . . it isn't.  And not because of the actual rule, but because of somebody else saying so.

As I have said in other conversations on the subject, this is the easiest rule to implement, but everybody thinks it is Burger King.

[Richvee]

The throw pulling F3 into foul ground doesn't give him the right to use the colored base. It gives the runner the right to use either 

[Velho]

2 hours ago, Richvee said:

The throw pulling F3 into foul ground doesn't give him the right to use the colored base. It gives the runner the right to use either 

Was just discussing with someone who does college. His understanding was it's flexible. Is the white base only direction from the NCAA rulebook, interp, or other? 

Is there a U3k exception?