How to properly complete a pivot at 1st base

[Jackrabbitslims]

Does anyone have a video of how to properly execute a pivot at 1st base? I know I just go at with a hope and a prayer and feel like i look very stupid.

[JSam21]

Come inside towards the cutout, put your right foot in the ground and open up towards first base. 
 

In my opinion, there is no actual benefit to pivoting as it was developed at pro school to help determine each student's athleticism. I use the "AAA" pivot, which is just coming inside and glancing over your right shoulder for the touch of first. 

[grayhawk]

3 hours ago, JSam21 said:

I use the "AAA" pivot

MUCH better mechanic.

[SeeingEyeDog]

I completely agree with the AAA pivot choice, especially as someone with a bad knee. The one thing I would advise when using that mechanic is to hold your head a beat or two longer than what you need to in order to really sell to coaches (as there may be appeal...) what you did or did not see. And that of course, should NOT come at the expense of getting yourself on to 2B in time to potentially make a call/get the touch there.

Think about it from the coach's perspective...the batter hits a line drive into the gap and is going for 2B. As the batter-runner comes through 1B, you see him miss the bag...what is the next thing a coach will do? The coach is looking at U1 (if he didn't go out) to discern if U1 saw what he saw. If you are the coach of the team at-bat, you are preparing your "defense" (such as it is) for the possibility that it's appealed and could U1 have seen the touch. If you are the coach of the team on defense, you are also looking at U1 after the batter-runner missed the bag and preparing your "defense" (again, such as it is...) should you appeal in the hopes that U1 saw what you saw.

Obviously, we don't umpire a game out of fear for what a coach "might do". Positioning, angle, distance, timing, knowledge, sharp mechanics...we use all of those fundamentals to help us get the call right. How a coach or a player decides to react to our calls, even on those calls that are kicked, is on them. As always, market to market is different. In my market, if you use that AAA pivot and hold your view of that touch/no-touch just a beat longer, it goes a long way towards preventatively umpiring a potential game management situation. The more time in your market, the more you become a known quantity and your reputation is established, particularly amongst HS coaches.

~Dawg 

[jimurrayalterego]

27 minutes ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

I completely agree with the AAA pivot choice, especially as someone with a bad knee. The one thing I would advise when using that mechanic is to hold your head a beat or two longer than what you need to in order to really sell to coaches (as there may be appeal...) what you did or did not see. And that of course, should NOT come at the expense of getting yourself on to 2B in time to potentially make a call/get the touch there.

 

~Dawg 

You need to continue looking until you know there will be no OBS possibility. Also if you read a single a pivot puts you in better position for a throwback. That pivot can be more relaxed. Otherwise AAA is the way to go.

[maven]

23 minutes ago, jimurrayalterego said:

You need to continue looking until you know there will be no OBS possibility. Also if you read a single a pivot puts you in better position for a throwback. That pivot can be more relaxed. Otherwise AAA is the way to go.

We should be able to read that as we move into the infield. If F3 is in the vicinity of the base, then we can adjust to see the action around the base. On a safe extra base hit where F3 has moved to cut off, we can glance to get the touch and go.

Good idea to have an idea where F3 is going so he doesn't obstruct US.

[ilyazhito]

What is the AAA mechanic y'all are mentioning?

I've seen and executed both the standard pivot and the run to 2nd base while looking over my shoulder. 

[noumpere]

15 minutes ago, ilyazhito said:

What is the AAA mechanic y'all are mentioning?

I've seen and executed both the standard pivot and the run to 2nd base while looking over my shoulder. 

 

[ilyazhito]

That makes more sense. I've never heard it called that. I've just heard that not pivoting was an advanced mechanic and a good habit to get into if working 3 or 4-umpire games. 

[834k3r]

On 12/5/2024 at 10:26 AM, SeeingEyeDog said:

I completely agree with the AAA pivot choice, especially as someone with a bad knee. The one thing I would advise when using that mechanic is to hold your head a beat or two longer than what you need to in order to really sell to coaches (as there may be appeal...) what you did or did not see. And that of course, should NOT come at the expense of getting yourself on to 2B in time to potentially make a call/get the touch there.

Think about it from the coach's perspective...the batter hits a line drive into the gap and is going for 2B. As the batter-runner comes through 1B, you see him miss the bag...what is the next thing a coach will do? The coach is looking at U1 (if he didn't go out) to discern if U1 saw what he saw. If you are the coach of the team at-bat, you are preparing your "defense" (such as it is) for the possibility that it's appealed and could U1 have seen the touch. If you are the coach of the team on defense, you are also looking at U1 after the batter-runner missed the bag and preparing your "defense" (again, such as it is...) should you appeal in the hopes that U1 saw what you saw.

Obviously, we don't umpire a game out of fear for what a coach "might do". Positioning, angle, distance, timing, knowledge, sharp mechanics...we use all of those fundamentals to help us get the call right. How a coach or a player decides to react to our calls, even on those calls that are kicked, is on them. As always, market to market is different. In my market, if you use that AAA pivot and hold your view of that touch/no-touch just a beat longer, it goes a long way towards preventatively umpiring a potential game management situation. The more time in your market, the more you become a known quantity and your reputation is established, particularly amongst HS coaches.

~Dawg 

FWIW, the NFHS umpire manual (page 69) says U1 will pivot.

That said, reading the play and knowing whether to pivot or to go with the AAA is definitely the better choice.

[noumpere]

8 hours ago, ilyazhito said:

That makes more sense. I've never heard it called that. I've just heard that not pivoting was an advanced mechanic and a good habit to get into if working 3 or 4-umpire games. 

I'm not sure what difference that would make.  Either you are taking the BR to second or you aren't.

 

Too many (none here, I'm sure) use it too often because they are lazy and don't get a good look at the touch / OBS at first.   The regular pivot has a purpose.

[jimurrayalterego]

11 hours ago, ilyazhito said:

What is the AAA mechanic y'all are mentioning?

I've seen and executed both the standard pivot and the run to 2nd base while looking over my shoulder. 

MiLB AAA - fast runners, slower umpires. That’s where the mechanic came from. 

[grayhawk]

3 hours ago, noumpere said:

I'm not sure what difference that would make.  Either you are taking the BR to second or you aren't.

Because there are times when you won't be taking the play at 2nd from the inside. No runners, the batter hits a shot down the LF line that U3 turns and points fair, but stays in for a potential play at 3rd. U1 takes BR into 2nd on the outside for the play, keeping ball, bag, umpire in line. Never would you do a pivot in this situation. 

[Replacematt]

1 hour ago, grayhawk said:

Because there are times when you won't be taking the play at 2nd from the inside. No runners, the batter hits a shot down the LF line that U3 turns and points fair, but stays in for a potential play at 3rd. U1 takes BR into 2nd on the outside for the play, keeping ball, bag, umpire in line. Never would you do a pivot in this situation. 

We take this from the inside. This is covered on page 115 of the 2025 CCA manual.

Also, ball-bag-umpire is kinda being shown the door as it forgets one of the key elements...the runner. This play is one of those examples, as the runner is usually going to slide to the outfield side if there's a play at 2B, which means that U1 is going to be blocked by being outside.

[grayhawk]

5 minutes ago, Replacematt said:

We take this from the inside. This is covered on page 115 of the 2025 CCA manual.

Any time you're covered on the back side, you're free to work the base 360 degrees (like a play at the plate). Same thing as U3 running in to take a play at 2nd when U1 doesn't go out on a hit to RF with no runners (PU has the play at 3rd & U1 has the play at the plate). Don't just go to a spot, work for the best look. Or just do what you're coordinator expects you to do.

[Replacematt]

5 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

Any time you're covered on the back side, you're free to work the base 360 degrees (like a play at the plate). Same thing as U3 running in to take a play at 2nd when U1 doesn't go out on a hit to RF with no runners (PU has the play at 3rd & U1 has the play at the plate). Don't just go to a spot, work for the best look. Or just do what you're coordinator expects you to do.

Yep, we are free to work 360. That is not the same as starting outside. If the best view as the play develops means using a different side of the bag, so be it.
 
We come in on this one, full stop. We make our adjustments from there. This (and the philosophy I stated) was covered in the clinic I attended in the fall. (This sticks out to me because, like you, I was subscribing to ball-bag-umpire as a governing principle.)

If something happens between 1B and 2B, and we are outside, we are in a difficult position, at best. When BR slides to the outfield side, we have a substantial risk of having their body obscuring the timing of the tag and their touch of the base.

 

[grayhawk]

The more I think about it, the more I think you're right. I'm trying to think of scenarios in the past where I took BR into 2B on the outside and I can't really think of any. Yes, moving outside when the throw goes to the plate, but not on the initial play. Doing so does present more risk than when U3 takes the play on the outside as described earlier.

[noumpere]

8 hours ago, grayhawk said:

The more I think about it, the more I think you're right. I'm trying to think of scenarios in the past where I took BR into 2B on the outside and I can't really think of any. Yes, moving outside when the throw goes to the plate, but not on the initial play. Doing so does present more risk than when U3 takes the play on the outside as described earlier.

There are (or were) situations where U1 stayed on the outside.  But, that still has nothing to do with a pivot -- whether traditional or AAA.  It's a no-pivot look.  Still don't see how practicing the AAA pivot in 2-man prepares one for 3- or 4-man as was stated.

[grayhawk]

13 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Still don't see how practicing the AAA pivot in 2-man prepares one for 3- or 4-man as was stated.

Agreed. There are actually fewer situations where taking the BR to 2B would be needed in 3 or 4 man since U3 or U2 are there.

[ilyazhito]

20 hours ago, grayhawk said:

Agreed. There are actually fewer situations where taking the BR to 2B would be needed in 3 or 4 man since U3 or U2 are there.

Pivoting is not used in 3 or 4 man. Even if the play breaks down to leave 2 umpires, U1 doesn't pivot. He glances at the touch and continues to 2B. 

[grayhawk]

3 minutes ago, ilyazhito said:

Pivoting is not used in 3 or 4 man. Even if the play breaks down to leave 2 umpires, U1 doesn't pivot. He glances at the touch and continues to 2B. 

I agree that it's not used, but it's more a product of how we moved from the pivot to the over the shoulder when working 2 man games and just kept doing it working 3 or 4 man.

[dumbdumb]

4 hours ago, grayhawk said:

I agree that it's not used, but it's more a product of how we moved from the pivot to the over the shoulder when working 2 man games and just kept doing it working 3 or 4 man.

do you get 'dinged' now if you do the old umpire school school taught pivot nowdays, in a 2,3,4 man scenario where 1BU might have to take runner to 2B, like the old guy mentioned to me, like he got dinged at the school for not taking one, when he went to the school years ago. question is for NFHS, NCAA,  and MiLB

[JSam21]

8 hours ago, dumbdumb said:

do you get 'dinged' now if you do the old umpire school school taught pivot nowdays, in a 2,3,4 man scenario where 1BU might have to take runner to 2B, like the old guy mentioned to me, like he got dinged at the school for not taking one, when he went to the school years ago. question is for NFHS, NCAA,  and MiLB

At pro school, if you don't do it exactly how they teach you, you will get dinged. 

In amateur baseball, we are just looking to get into position and get calls right. I can only speak for myself, when it comes to how I would evaluate umpires, I don't care if you pivot or take it over your shoulder. As long as your eyes are where they need to be when the relative action occurs. 

It all depends on what your assigner/conference coordinator/ evaluator wants you to do. One person might ding you, another doesn't care.