attempt to 2nd base?

[Thomas Van den Eynde]

I was watching a consensed game last night of 9/7/24: MIN@KC. That's where this clip is cut from, so not a lot of video to make a good call, but nonetheless: here is my question.

Did Tommy Pham (BR at the start of the play) make a move to second base or not?

On the play the BR made it safely to 1st base on an errant throw, but if you look closely: I think that he makes at least one step towards 2nd base after wich the first baseman makes a tag. To be clear: Tommy Pham wasn't called out by U1.

What would be the correct call? Safe or out?

Ruling: 5.09 (b) (4)  He is tagged, when the ball is alive, while off his base. EXCEPTION: A batter-runner cannot be tagged out after overrunning or oversliding first base if he returns immediately to the base;

[grayhawk]

Looks like an attempt to me, especially by MLB standards. Surprised he wasn't called out.

[Velho]

7 hours ago, grayhawk said:

Looks like an attempt to me, especially by MLB standards. Surprised he wasn't called out.

👆

[Jimurray]

8 hours ago, grayhawk said:

Looks like an attempt to me, especially by MLB standards. Surprised he wasn't called out.

You have to lose your helmet to be called out. 

[JonnyCat]

It's hard to tell, but it looks like U1 is looking at the carom of the ball just as Pham makes that move. He probably didn't see it.

 Agree with @grayhawk, that would be something I would expect to be called out in MLB. 

[Jimurray]

The touch means nothing but did the coach signal to go to 2B, change his mind, and did he grab Pham's hand to keep him from going to 2B? Coach assist?

[The Man in Blue]

Not enough video for me to make an educated ruling.

From what I could see, I don’t think I have an attempt.  There was a little deke, but I couldn’t tell if he was trying to avoid the coach’s hand or if it was the beginning of the start of a kernel of an idea of going.

Which brings me to @Jimurray’s comment.  Again, not calling just a touch when I don’t think it altered what the runner was doing, but I wonder if Pham was thinking the same thing.

[Jimurray]

19 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Not enough video for me to make an educated ruling.

From what I could see, I don’t think I have an attempt.  There was a little deke, but I couldn’t tell if he was trying to avoid the coach’s hand or if it was the beginning of the start of a kernel of an idea of going.

Which brings me to @Jimurray’s comment.  Again, not calling just a touch when I don’t think it altered what the runner was doing, but I wonder if Pham was thinking the same thing.

Enough video on my MLB.com. Coach sends him to 2B and he jinks and looks that way, definitely an attempt at that point, coach then says something and Phan looks back at him while coach grabs his hand. Phan aborts and hustles back to 1B while F3 tags him on the way. I have two things missed there. I probably would miss them also, looking at where the ball went, even though my Plate would have that responsibility. But I don't know if a review was possible on coach assist or failure to return at once but it appears nobody questioned it. They did question a runner INT on the same play as F5 held up to let R2 by and F6 fielded the dribbler. I have F6 as protected and F5 not guilty of OBS. So also did the crew.

[beerguy55]

12 hours ago, Jimurray said:

But I don't know if a review was possible on coach assist or failure to return at once but it appears nobody questioned it. They did question a runner INT on the same play as F5 held up to let R2 by and F6 fielded the dribbler. I have F6 as protected and F5 not guilty of OBS. So also did the crew.

As I understand it, the only INT/OBS plays specifically listed as reviewable are CI, the double-play slide rule, and collisions at home plate....and spectator interference.  Otherwise OBS/INT are non-reviewable.

 

[JSam21]

19 hours ago, Jimurray said:

The touch means nothing but did the coach signal to go to 2B, change his mind, and did he grab Pham's hand to keep him from going to 2B? Coach assist?

There is no physical assistance here.

[Velho]

2 hours ago, JSam21 said:

The touch means nothing but did the coach signal to go to 2B, change his mind, and did he grab Pham's hand to keep him from going to 2B? Coach assist?

Do you say that because you don't think he touched him, because you don't think Pham was going to 2B in the first place, or something else?

[ArchAngel72]

There is the 1 step that to me signaled intent in my mind.  The hand grab by the base coach I think the 1BU missed that.  To me that looked blatant also like "Stay here" in a tug.

 

But Im no pro and Im watching video so meh Monday after lunch QBing..

 

[JSam21]

1 hour ago, Velho said:

Do you say that because you don't think he touched him, because you don't think Pham was going to 2B in the first place, or something else?

About the no physical assistance? I don't know if he touched him or not. I sure know that he wasn't physically assisted in returning to or leaving the base. 

[beerguy55]

3 hours ago, Velho said:

Do you say that because you don't think he touched him, because you don't think Pham was going to 2B in the first place, or something else?

I just don't think there's enough in the video above to show assistance.  I see something that might be a reach for Pham's arm, or just may be a point...I don't see anything to indicate he was able to touch the player, let alone alter their direction.

[Velho]

Whether he touched him or not that reach tells me the coach thought Pham had feinted to 2B.

[beerguy55]

50 minutes ago, Velho said:

Whether he touched him or not that reach tells me the coach thought Pham had feinted to 2B.

Not in the context of what just happened - the coach initially told him to go to second, then changed his mind.  If there is a reach it's simply a reaction to his own actions, not necessarily Pham's.

[Velho]

55 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

1 hour ago, Velho said:

Whether he touched him or not that reach tells me the coach thought Pham had feinted to 2B.

Not in the context of what just happened - the coach initially told him to go to second, then changed his mind.  If there is a reach it's simply a reaction to his own actions, not necessarily Pham's.

So he telepathically assisted 😉 (seriously though, I see your point).

Pham did feint imo so that frame may be coloring what I see.