Batting Gloves

[BigBlue4u]

Help!   A fellow umpire asked me a couple of questions regarding batting gloves.  PLAY 1:  A pitched ball hits the batter's batting glove only, which is in his back pocket.  PLAY 2:  Runner is sliding back into first base on a pickoff attempt by the pitcher.  The first baseman makes a sweep tag and his glove brushes against the runner's batting glove only, which is in the runner's back pocket.  Comments appreciated and a rule reference would be helpful.

Thanks.

[Umpy]

For Play 2, that happened in the MLB just a couple weeks ago: https://www.mlb.com/news/marcus-semien-tagged-out-batting-gloves-alcs-game-4

 

The rules reference in that article cover Play 1 as well, but these are OBR

[SeeingEyeDog]

@Senor Azul will be along momentarily with the citation recitation...

PLAY1: It's an immediate dead ball and the batter is awarded first base. When I am working the plate, if I have a batter with out turned pockets or a tucked in batting glove with fingers poking out, I ask them to fully tuck that in. Admittedly, we can't really do much about guys with the oven mitt sliding mitts in their back pockets. Those are so large and bulky they can't really be fully tucked in. Again, if a legally pitched ball hits that oven mitt, I am awarding the base because that is how the rule is written. Defense, if you don't like that call...maybe have your pitcher control the baseball such that it passes in front of the hitters?

PLAY2: Um...yeah...so, we literally had this play last week in MLB. What didn't you understand about the play as it was finally and correctly adjudicated?

~Dawg

[BLWizzRanger]

They need to make baseball pants with the LuLuMon side pockets. If anything sticks out, there is a leg behind it for legitimate HPB.

Sent from my SM-F721U1 using Tapatalk

[The Man in Blue]

3 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

@Senor Azul will be along momentarily with the citation recitation...

PLAY1: It's an immediate dead ball and the batter is awarded first base. When I am working the plate, if I have a batter with out turned pockets or a tucked in batting glove with fingers poking out, I ask them to fully tuck that in. Admittedly, we can't really do much about guys with the oven mitt sliding mitts in their back pockets. Those are so large and bulky they can't really be fully tucked in. Again, if a legally pitched ball hits that oven mitt, I am awarding the base because that is how the rule is written. Defense, if you don't like that call...maybe have your pitcher control the baseball such that it passes in front of the hitters?

PLAY2: Um...yeah...so, we literally had this play last week in MLB. What didn't you understand about the play as it was finally and correctly adjudicated?

~Dawg

In another thread we are admonishing and ejecting coaches for not following an umpire's instruction . . . so why are you rewarding the player here?

If it is perfectly fine AND you are going to reward the player, why are you saying anything in the first place?

In FED, and I will run with that disclaimer since I haven't looked it up in other codes, I still strenuously object (since that image is in my mind) to FED's erroneous interp that says the oven mitt or batting gloves in the pocket count for a HBP.  The rule states clothing (assuming we are calling equipment clothing, and I don't object to that) MUST BE WORN PROPERLY for it to count as an HBP.

 

OBR excludes only jewelry, so go ahead and call it.

I don't see (or am missing) anything in the NCAA rulebook.

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, The Man in Blue said:

In another thread we are admonishing and ejecting coaches for not following an umpire's instruction . . . so why are you rewarding the player here?

If it is perfectly fine AND you are going to reward the player, why are you saying anything in the first place?

In FED, and I will run with that disclaimer since I haven't looked it up in other codes, I still strenuously object (since that image is in my mind) to FED's erroneous interp that says the oven mitt or batting gloves in the pocket count for a HBP.  The rule states clothing (assuming we are calling equipment clothing, and I don't object to that) MUST BE WORN PROPERLY for it to count as an HBP.

 

OBR excludes only jewelry, so go ahead and call it.

I don't see (or am missing) anything in the NCAA rulebook.

A signal card worn on the belt would be a HBP in NCAA but not in FED. Go figure? properly worn or not depends on the code and we call it like they want and rant about it/reasonably question the rationale. 

[Senor Azul]

The applicable rules are 8-1-1d2 and 2-40. The relevant part of 8-1-1d2 is

If a batter's loose garment, such as a shirt that is not worn properly, is touched by a pitched ball, the batter is not entitled to first base.

Rule 2-40 is the definition of "Touching Ball, Base or Runner." The relevant part is...

The term applies to contact with any part of the person or the person's clothing if the clothing is reasonably well fitted.

There is a related case play, 8.1.1 Situation D. It does ask the question, "When may a batter be hit by a pitch and not be awarded first base?" Unfortunately it doesn't add any help because it doesn't mention anything about the person's clothing.

 

[ArchAngel72]

Heh  I will add LL fall ball plenty of hoodies under game jerseys.. I tell the coaches thats considered to me as part of the uniform if it gets HBP  time take your butt to 1st

 

If it gets tagged on the base path and they are off the base "Out"   Sit your butt down on the bench and complain to your coach as to why he sent you when he knew that 12u catcher had a lazar for an arm.

 

[The Man in Blue]

15 hours ago, Senor Azul said:

The applicable rules are 8-1-1d2 and 2-40. The relevant part of 8-1-1d2 is

If a batter's loose garment, such as a shirt that is not worn properly, is touched by a pitched ball, the batter is not entitled to first base.

Rule 2-40 is the definition of "Touching Ball, Base or Runner." The relevant part is...

The term applies to contact with any part of the person or the person's clothing if the clothing is reasonably well fitted.

There is a related case play, 8.1.1 Situation D. It does ask the question, "When may a batter be hit by a pitch and not be awarded first base?" Unfortunately it doesn't add any help because it doesn't mention anything about the person's clothing.

 

 

Saw all that, including the useless case play . . . and I keep coming back to "properly worn."  This is Fed's admonishment about wristbands on the belt.  If that is "not worn properly," neither are batting gloves and sliding mitts in the pocket.

For the sake of Fed, I would say we are safe to assume any piece of equipment is "clothing" since we have no specific mention of batting helmets and protective guards.  So, again, if it is not worn properly, it does not work for a HBP.

[JSam21]

I find it extremely funny that no one would have thought twice about sending someone to first base if batting gloves in the back pocket were hit by a pitch until the sliding mitts became prevalent. Now umpires that think that sliding mitts are silly or dumb try to find anyway to punish a kid for having one solely because they don't like them. Send them to first base. 

 

[BigBlue4u]

Thanks to everyone for their input.  Some very good points were made.

[Senor Azul]

Mr. Man in Blue, where might we find FED'S erroneous interpretation "that says the oven mitt or batting gloves in the pocket count for a HBP"? I have not found it anywhere. Please help.

A couple of weeks ago I posted the OBR interpretation in the Professional forum. Funny thing is that the OBR interpretation is the same as what you posted is the FED's erroneous interpretation.

There is an online case play (Situation 3 in 2022) for FED that states, "Equipment must be worn as intended by the manufacturer." It is also a Point of Emphasis for 2022.

 

[The Man in Blue]

Situation 12 in the NFHS 2023 Interpretations.

https://www.nfhs.org/media/6892968/2023-nfhs-baseball-rules-interpretations-final.pdf

SITUATION 12: The batter is hit by a pitch on the sliding gloves that are tucked in the back pocket. Is the batter awarded first base or does the batter continue the at-bat? RULING: A batter is to be awarded first base when a pitched ball hits the batter or the batter’s clothing, provided the batter did not strike at the ball or permitted the ball to hit oneself. A player, and one’s body, includes the helmet, uniform, shoes, protective gear, etc., when worn correctly and normally. (The person of a player does not include jewelry). When the pitched ball makes contact with sliding gloves in the back pocket, the ball is dead, and the batter is awarded first base. The umpire may instruct the batter to remove the sliding gloves from the pocket when at-bat. (8-1-1d)

[The Man in Blue]

11 hours ago, JSam21 said:

I find it extremely funny that no one would have thought twice about sending someone to first base if batting gloves in the back pocket were hit by a pitch until the sliding mitts became prevalent. Now umpires that think that sliding mitts are silly or dumb try to find anyway to punish a kid for having one solely because they don't like them. Send them to first base. 

 

I wouldn't have thought twice because I did not do it.  I can't recall ever having it happen, but I would not have considered something out of place and sticking out beyond his person to be part of his person.  Has nothing to do with the popularity of oven mitts.

Like I said, are we going to allow a 4-inch extension on his elbow guard?

[JSam21]

11 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

I wouldn't have thought twice because I did not do it.  I can't recall ever having it happen, but I would not have considered something out of place and sticking out beyond his person to be part of his person.  Has nothing to do with the popularity of oven mitts.

Like I said, are we going to allow a 4-inch extension on his elbow guard?

Until it is codified in the rule, with a restriction on size... yes. 

[Tborze]

I have had mixed feelings on this subject. At first I thought, penalize the bad pitch. Then I thought, why give the batter a free base, he didn’t take one for the team!  
Now, I’d just look at the kid and ask, “What do you wanna do “?  
PS: I’ve never had a pitch hit the batter’s gloves in his back pocket.  
Nicking a shirt sleeve? Maybe! ? Lol 
 

[The Man in Blue]

I hate the "penalize the bad pitch" mentality.  It is not our job to penalize poor performance.  Nothing in the rules says a player must be good.

It is already a ball, that is the penalty prescribed by rule.  Why are you (generic you, not @Tborzeyou) injecting yourself into this?  Since you feel you need to penalize the pitcher for bad play, you are going to reward the batter for breaking the rule about wearing his uniform (and equipment) properly.