Celebratory Props in LLWS??

[concertman1971]

I do not umpire LL, but am watching the SC vs. VA game while I "WFH" and the VA team brought out a red cowboy hat and put it on the head of the kid who hit the homerun right after he touched home. Is this allowed?

No pic because I couldnt screenshot using HULU

[stevis]

1 hour ago, concertman1971 said:

I do not umpire LL, but am watching the SC vs. VA game while I "WFH" and the VA team brought out a red cowboy hat and put it on the head of the kid who hit the homerun right after he touched home. Is this allowed?

No pic because I couldnt screenshot using HULU

No such specific rule.  Now that it made notice I'll bet there's an extra-unworkable, stick-up-rear-end rule for us to deal with next year.

That's my district--not sure I worked a game with that team though.  I don't recall seeing it then.

[Umpy]

Here's a highlight, at ~5 minutes. A weak argument could be made that they're taking off their helmet while still running the bases?

Also at 7:11 the 2B umpire does a homerun mechanic I don't think I've seen before and am not a fan of.

 

[SeeingEyeDog]

@Umpy...I have seen that mechanic and some variants in HS and travel ball. The guys I have seen do this mechanic (some of them very veteran guys...) when I have asked them about it have said something like, "Hitting a HR is a huge deal for a kid. This is a game. Let's celebrate it a little..." [me internally: Isn't that why the fans are here?]

Neither my association nor FED nor my state's athletic association have issued any communication to us on a "proper" HR mechanic so, I guess guys feel the need to add more style or something to it...fine...whatever.

It's not for me but, until we receive direction in my market NOT to do that...I don't really care what guys do.

~Dawg

[Umpy]

I didn't mean to suggest he was doing something wrong, I just think it kind of looks similar to the Out mechanic.  I'm going to stick with the whirling finger motion.

[The Man in Blue]

Agreed @Umpy ... I noticed the "thrust point" during the Senior Softball LLWS also.  Guessing it is a LL mechanic? 

I'm also noticing umpires who chase on a fly ball holding the safe or out call all the way until the outfield gets the ball back to the infield.  Yuck on that look, too.  Are you an airplane?

As for the comment @SeeingEyeDog brought forth ... it is NOT our job or place to celebrate the achievements of the players.  Another reason I am not a fan of an overstated strike out call.  We aren't playing, we are neutral arbiters, so why would we celebrate one side over the other?  (Yes, we are a part of the game and want to have fun ... but this isn't ours.)

[stevis]

LL has taught that HR mechanic yes.  I don't love it either, but when I'm doing a tournament game where somebody whose opinion of me means something for me is watching...

 

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by stevis
fixed typo

[SeeingEyeDog]

1 hour ago, The Man in Blue said:

Agreed @Umpy ... I noticed the "thrust point" during the Senior Softball LLWS also.  Guessing it is a LL mechanic? 

I'm also noticing umpires who chase on a fly ball holding the safe or out call all the way until the outfield gets the ball back to the infield.  Yuck on that look, too.  Are you an airplane?

As for the comment @SeeingEyeDog brought forth ... it is NOT our job or place to celebrate the achievements of the players.  Another reason I am not a fan of an overstated strike out call.  We aren't playing, we are neutral arbiters, so why would we celebrate one side over the other?  (Yes, we are a part of the game and want to have fun ... but this isn't ours.)

Completely AGREE on the "...on an airplane" mechanic! No, don't do that. We need secure possession, secure possession through to the voluntary release and...the voluntary release. So, we stay locked down and frozen until we have all 3 of those. Once we have all three, if it's a can of corn, we don't need to do anything. Everyone knows we have a catch. If it's a trouble ball call, then we wait for all 3, hammer and say, "That's a catch! That's...a...catch!" or if we don't have all 3, we give a safe signal and say, "No catch! No catch!" Airplanes? No, thank you. And don't forget, especially in 2-man, we might have a bounce back so, we can hold the call slightly as we are moving to the next position for a call.

Slightly DISAGREE on an overstated strike call. We are splitting hairs here but, I do think a slightly elevated strike call and mechanic help motivate the pitcher. Motivated pitchers generally throw more strikes. Strikes make outs and swing bats and...you know the rest. But, again...we're not looking to go all Dutch Rennert on anyone and our mechanics should be balanced in their presentation for both teams. Nor are we looking to humiliate the hitters. Anything else is just not a good look. Again, just my opinion...I could be wrong.

~Dawg

[BigBlue4u]

On 8/4/2023 at 8:17 AM, Umpy said:

Also at 7:11 the 2B umpire does a homerun mechanic I don't think I've seen before and am not a fan of.

Borderline amateurish behavior.  Not necessary to signal the obvious.

[Vegas_Ump]

18 hours ago, BigBlue4u said:

Borderline amateurish behavior.  Not necessary to signal the obvious.

Consider this:  Some pro parks have weird ground rules dealing with yellow lines that often are not continuously parallel with the field!  So sometimes a close look by U2 is a good idea!  And thus you will know quickly if it's a home run or a ball in play.

I have done the lines in LLWS Regionals, and I had a group of long balls where I had to judge if the ball left the field on which side of the foul pole?  So I signaled fair, and then home run.  The play needed a prompt call.

I even had a manager request a replay when the ball hit the bushes BEHIND the wall and rebounded back!  He claimed it hit the face of the wall and bounded back into play--FAIR BALL--and his defense retired a runner in the process!  I was about 20 feet from the play;  he was 200 feet from the play!  Hmmmmmm, what do you think I called?

I think the call signal is proper.  And I believe it must be timely!

Mike

Las Vegas

[BigBlue4u]

7 hours ago, Vegas_Ump said:

Consider this:  Some pro parks have weird ground rules dealing with yellow lines that often are not continuously parallel with the field!  So sometimes a close look by U2 is a good idea!  And thus you will know quickly if it's a home run or a ball in play.

I have done the lines in LLWS Regionals, and I had a group of long balls where I had to judge if the ball left the field on which side of the foul pole?  So I signaled fair, and then home run.  The play needed a prompt call.

I even had a manager request a replay when the ball hit the bushes BEHIND the wall and rebounded back!  He claimed it hit the face of the wall and bounded back into play--FAIR BALL--and his defense retired a runner in the process!  I was about 20 feet from the play;  he was 200 feet from the play!  Hmmmmmm, what do you think I called?

I think the call signal is proper.  And I believe it must be timely!

Mike

Las Vegas

From the examples you just gave, you did the right thing as these are not obvious calls.  What I am talking about is the "big" foul ball signal on a ball that goes about ten feet off the ground directly to the backstop.

[The Man in Blue]

[SeeingEyeDog]

@The Man in Blue, I listen to The Rewatchables podcast which is part of The Ringer network. Bill Simmons and his cronies have reviewed close to 300 films now. They just did Saturday Night Fever and while there are some truly classic and timeless moments in that film? That film has not...has NOT aged well.

~Dawg

[The Man in Blue]

It didn’t age well just a few years after it came out!

[Lou B]

LLWS, Nevada batter just hit a HR and when the team came out to home plate they placed a blue cowboy hat on his head.  Nothing said/done about it.

[The Man in Blue]

Why would anything be said/done about it?

[SeeingEyeDog]

4 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Why would anything be said/done about it?

Because NCAA and FED have rules prohibiting it...I don't personally have a problem with it. When I was growing up, the answer was, "Don't want the opposition to use props when celebrating big plays? Prevent them from making big plays then..."

~Dawg

[Lou B]

2 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Why would anything be said/done about it?

Didn't say they should, just pointed out that since nothing was said/done then it must be acceptable.

[BigBlue4u]

The Los Angeles Angels do this, but it's done in the dugout.  I have no problem with what the VA team did.

[Velho]

1 hour ago, BigBlue4u said:

The Los Angeles Angels do this, but it's done in the dugout.  I have no problem with what the VA team did.

As long as it doesn't evolve into beanballs and fights, it's all good.

High School and College could learn something from these 12 year olds.

[Thunderheads]

On 8/4/2023 at 11:17 AM, Umpy said:

A weak argument could be made that they're taking off their helmet while still running the bases?

A little late to this party, but ........................

No, no, no ....a million times NO!   DO NOT go there, or be 'that umpire'.  NO!  A home run is a dead ball, makes no difference. Let it go.

[Thunderheads]

On 8/4/2023 at 3:00 PM, stevis said:

LL has taught that HR mechanic yes.  I don't love it either, but when I'm doing a tournament game where somebody whose opinion of me means something for me is watching...

 

 

I've also noticed the "time" mechanic this year (probably been going on for a while but just noticing it now) ... it's more like a double-handed stop sign right our in front, looks funny

[The Man in Blue]

17 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Because NCAA and FED have rules prohibiting it...I don't personally have a problem with it. When I was growing up, the answer was, "Don't want the opposition to use props when celebrating big plays? Prevent them from making big plays then..."

~Dawg

I know where you are going, but I’m going to throw this out for discussion sake … 

Does NFHS?  Careful there … 

[Thunderheads]

1 minute ago, The Man in Blue said:

I know where you are going, but I’m going to throw this out for discussion sake … 

Does NFHS?  Careful there … 

PoE ... but not sure about 'rules'

[MadMax]

On 8/3/2023 at 3:15 PM, stevis said:

No such specific rule.  Now that it made notice I'll bet there's an extra-unworkable, stick-up-rear-end rule for us to deal with next year.

NCAA – Ejectable Offense for props out of dugout; bench warning → Ejection for “organized celebrations out of dugout”. 

NFHS – The kids are practically zip-locked into the dugouts by every even closely applicable rule, but props are a warn-able and ejectable offense in the state-I-work-in. 

“The pros do it, so why can’t we?” I’ve got a shocking correlation; tell me I’m wrong – “If there weren’t any (broadcast) cameras, there wouldn’t be any props”. 😲 

10 hours ago, Velho said:

As long as it doesn't evolve into beanballs and fights, it's all good.

You say that now… but LL, in particular, is built on this thing called “sportsmanship”… I’m just waiting for the abject sh!tstorm to erupt on the inevitable bat-flip-&-pimped HR (especially a walk-off one!) on international broadcast, with parents on both sides losing their minds over it (“have you no class?! Have you no sportsmanship?! He should be called Out! That HR shouldn’t count!!”). 

It’s coming… 

17 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

I don't personally have a problem with it.

Are you saying you won’t enforce the rule(s) within NFHS / NCAA games? (*jots down notes while looking like an insurance claim adjuster*) 

On 8/4/2023 at 10:17 AM, Umpy said:

A weak argument could be made that they're taking off their helmet while still running the bases…

Similar argument to that high-fives are “assistance”. 🙄