PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.....................

[concertman1971]

Know the rules if you are a coach or an umpire. I know I may be asking alot of some, but I was working 15u NFHS rules tourney this past weekend, and had a coach almost come unglued over this FPSR call. If you are the plate guy on this play, you 100000% have to clean this up. NO, my plate guy did not call it. It was so egregious, that i had to get it. Then....the 1B AC tries to come out yelling, gets sent back to the dugout (inning was over) I explain to the HC that i had an illegal slide and a violation of the FPSR in NFHS (or NCAA for that matter). his response...."well can you ask your partner for help?" ME: No.

Crowd starts yelling "way to make it about you blue!! We see you here!" They say that until it is their son/daughter who gets a knee or ankle blown up. Funny how in my college games, when this gets called, MGR will usually come out and ask for an explanation, then go back to the dugout. 

Umpires, PLEASE call this consistently.  Below is a screen grab of the video from my headset camera i wear sometimes on the bases. This is the very definition of an illegal slide. 

[Mudisfun]

Was working a tournament which was using OBR but with the HS FPS rule... I called it at 2nd as the PU on the clean up. Coach is pissed of course because we are playing 'pro rules!'... for a JV level team I might add.

Calmly explain to him that the game is being played with a FPS, as discussed at the plate meeting. Apparently they had forgotten that conversation already. Of course, thats not in the tournament rules... which of course it is. Gave him the opportunity to come to the car after the game to see the rules which were sent to all the coaches and umpires. Amazing he never showed.

And I 100% agree we have to grab this EVERY time.

[SeeingEyeDog]

Nobody asked me but...

Brothers, I've seen several posts here recently involving some form of "Proof That I Am Right" when interacting with coaches when our calls don't go their way. Believe me, I share your frustration that it's exasperating when we nail a call 100% and the coach wants to come out and dispute it. And I would never suggest that I have a technique that will ever end coaches challenging calls. We must always remember that in life we are not responsible for how others react to what we say and or do. We are only responsible for how we react to what everyone else says and does to us.

We need to learn the rule books for the leagues we work...yes. We need to learn and execute all the proper mechanics...yes. We need to provide explanations of rule applications and rule interpretations...yes. We need to NOT tolerate personal, profane or prolonged disputes of our judgement...yes. We need to be confident in our judgements and we need to work with our crews to get the calls correct...yes.

We really do not need to be telling coaches things like let's both go home and read the rule book and see who is right or let's meet in the parking lot afterward and look it up together...how is that going to go when that coach is proven wrong again in the parking lot? Do we think they'll say, "Oh yes...I see now...you are absolutely correct. I apologize unreservedly. I offer a complete and utter retraction. The imputation was totally without basis or fact and was in no way fair comment and was motivated purely by malice and I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused you or your family and I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at any time in the future."?

Make your call with firm voice and firm mechanics and sell the irregular. If they come out on judgement all you have to say is, "Coach, in my judgement the call is...[The Call]. If you continue, you will be ejected." If they come out and it's a rule interpretation or application give them as brief of an explanation as you can and do not allow them to repeat themselves or do anything else that prolongs the delay of the game.

And yes, if you are plate in 2-man and you see FPSR, call FPSR.

~Dawg

[Catch18]

Know the rules if you are a coach or an umpire. I know I may be asking alot of some, but I was working 15u NFHS rules tourney this past weekend, and had a coach almost come unglued over this FPSR call. If you are the plate guy on this play, you 100000% have to clean this up. NO, my plate guy did not call it. It was so egregious, that i had to get it. Then....the 1B AC tries to come out yelling, gets sent back to the dugout (inning was over) I explain to the HC that i had an illegal slide and a violation of the FPSR in NFHS (or NCAA for that matter). his response...."well can you ask your partner for help?" ME: No.
Crowd starts yelling "way to make it about you blue!! We see you here!" They say that until it is their son/daughter who gets a knee or ankle blown up. Funny how in my college games, when this gets called, MGR will usually come out and ask for an explanation, then go back to the dugout. 
Umpires, PLEASE call this consistently.  Below is a screen grab of the video from my headset camera i wear sometimes on the bases. This is the very definition of an illegal slide. 

Can we see the clip?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Man in Blue]

I’m going to ask the dumb question of @Mudisfun … isn’t OBR more restrictive than NFHS?  I’m curious what it was that you called.  
 

NFHS does NOT require a slide, but requires it to be done properly if done.  (NOTE: I’ll make this controversial statement again … NFHS does not actually have an FPSR.)

OBR does require a proper slide (well executed or not).

I noticed through the high school season (NFHS, baseball and softball) very few runners doing much of anything on double-play balls.  More often than not they just came in standing straight up.  If they peeled off, they most often turned right, which increases their chances of interfering.  I agree with @concertman1971 that we need to start getting this call more often.  If we are going to do that though, we need to make sure we have a proper understanding of what can and cannot be done.

Mechanically, in any code, PU NEEDS to move out from behind the plate to see what is happening down there.

I picked it up twice this weekend at 16u … and a third one that we discussed but didn’t end up calling.  It looked like a rolling slide, but we agreed the kid just got caught in the turf and flipped (it was way before he got to the fielder).

Got one in a local HS all-star game a few weeks ago, too.  Yeah, an all-star game.

[The Man in Blue]

19 hours ago, Catch18 said:

Can we see the clip?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah … the slide still could technically be legal (he is within reach of the base).  Need to see the actions.

[concertman1971]

16 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

Yeah … the still could technically be legal (he is within reach of the base).  Need to see the actions.

definition of a legal slide NFHS is (in part) "buttocks on ground" and "no rolling or cross body slides". This slide violated both of those conditions. Also, take a look at R1 left shoulder. that is not a direct line between the bases. 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cuzv4yBA6mT/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

@Catch18 @The Man in BlueThere is the video. Yes, my eyes/head followed the ball on the throw to 1b. I was really hoping that the PU would come up big and get it, but as soon as he didnt, i went back and got it. IMO, it was to egregious not to. 

[The Man in Blue]

@concertman1971 ... I could go either way after watching the video (several times).  I'm not opposed to the call, as there is a dip of the shoulder across the body into the fielder.  I wouldn't call it a full roll, but I think there is enough there.  I wouldn't necessarily argue for the call, but I certainly am not arguing against it.

As for the direct line, I think his slide was a direct line, but that shoulder move alters the path of his momentum into the fielder and THAT is a key piece of information.

 

On a tangent (and maybe this needs another thread), how many umpires out there are wearing cameras and why?  I encountered my first one a few weeks ago.  Well, actually two because there were a husband and wife who both ump.  They say they wear it and record sound for liability and training.

[concertman1971]

Just now, The Man in Blue said:

@concertman1971

As for the direct line, I think his slide was a direct line, but that shoulder move alters the path of his momentum into the fielder and THAT is a key piece of information.

This was the reason for my call

 

As for the camera, I got it for 2 reasons:

1. For content. Selfish, I know. I only wear it during rec ball. I turn it off before I talk to coaches. If someone asks (they have not) I would turn it off.

2. It gives a better view for plays like this. Trust me, i watched this play about 30 times when I got home. It gives us "amateur" umpires a chance to get a better review of plays and something to talk about on sites like this!!

I have another video from a different game that shows a play where the ball goes out of play and bases needed to be awarded. My partner in that game was PU and we got together. I had my say, he had his. When I got home, I was able to look at the video and confirm.

If you guys want me to, I will start uploading any plays I find interesting to the "situations" or "mechanics" pages. Just let me know

[umpstu]

1 hour ago, concertman1971 said:

This was the reason for my call

 

As for the camera, I got it for 2 reasons:

1. For content. Selfish, I know. I only wear it during rec ball. I turn it off before I talk to coaches. If someone asks (they have not) I would turn it off.

2. It gives a better view for plays like this. Trust me, i watched this play about 30 times when I got home. It gives us "amateur" umpires a chance to get a better review of plays and something to talk about on sites like this!!

I have another video from a different game that shows a play where the ball goes out of play and bases needed to be awarded. My partner in that game was PU and we got together. I had my say, he had his. When I got home, I was able to look at the video and confirm.

If you guys want me to, I will start uploading any plays I find interesting to the "situations" or "mechanics" pages. Just let me know

Good call. Doesn't matter if it's a rolling block slide or if he even makes contact with the fielder. That isn't in a direct line to the bag. Why would anybody, much less an umpire, question anything about this call. Takes balls to make this call, especially if your plate umpire doesn't get it. I had to make this call about 10 years ago and it broke up a five year conference unbeaten streak. And the kid I called it on was one of my favorite players of all time. Tough. He was 2-3 feet away from the bag with his slide and it was a DP which ended the game. Make the call.

[Mudisfun]

On 7/17/2023 at 3:24 PM, SeeingEyeDog said:

 

We really do not need to be telling coaches things like let's both go home and read the rule book and see who is right or let's meet in the parking lot afterward and look it up together...how is that going to go when that coach is proven wrong again in the parking lot? 

Coach suggested it, and I said come on by, we have it printed out and you can have a copy. 
 

I honestly can care less if they agree or not. If he really thinks I am wrong, pony up the $100/$150 and protest. If not? we move on.

[Mudisfun]

On 7/17/2023 at 6:10 PM, The Man in Blue said:

I’m going to ask the dumb question of @Mudisfun … isn’t OBR more restrictive than NFHS?  I’m curious what it was that you called.  
 

NFHS does NOT require a slide, but requires it to be done properly if done.  (NOTE: I’ll make this controversial statement again … NFHS does not actually have an FPSR.)

 

OBR is less restrictive in that they use the bonified slide rule versus HS which uses the FPSR. 

The FPSR is a safety rule, so you are correct, you do not have to slide, but you also cannot interfere. If you chose to slide, it must be done legally (see definition of a slide), direct to the bag, etc, etc...

In this play, R1 ran straight into the base. He did not slide, he did not deviate and he forced the fielder to throw around him. He was in the vicinity of 2nd, so not one of those plays where the runner is only 1/2 way down the track. In our area, this is a classic FPS violation at the HS level and one we grab in our unit.

Sorry for the long delay in getting back to you... was on vacation.

[The Man in Blue]

No worries, hope you enjoyed vacation, @Mudisfun!

Using the term “FPSR” with NFHS gets my hackles up.  You cannot interfere with ANY play, not just a slide on a force play.  There is no need to use this term within NFHS.  It intimates that a slide is required and is often incorrectly applied in NFHS by umpires who call other codes.

Yes, we need to start getting this interference call more often, and I suspect we are going to see more of it this season.  Anecdotal, but last season I already noticed a marked increase in runners not sliding (and turning right if they peel off).

I guess it is perspective, but I see OBR as more restrictive because the slide IS required.  NFHS does not require the slide because they see more injuries from kids sliding with improper technique.  Ironic that not having it is the safety part!  

 

 

[Mudisfun]

4 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

No worries, hope you enjoyed vacation, @Mudisfun!

Using the term “FPSR” with NFHS gets my hackles up.  You cannot interfere with ANY play, not just a slide on a force play.  There is no need to use this term within NFHS.  It intimates that a slide is required and is often incorrectly applied in NFHS by umpires who call other codes.

Yes, we need to start getting this interference call more often, and I suspect we are going to see more of it this season.  Anecdotal, but last season I already noticed a marked increase in runners not sliding (and turning right if they peel off).

I guess it is perspective, but I see OBR as more restrictive because the slide IS required.  NFHS does not require the slide because they see more injuries from kids sliding with improper technique.  Ironic that not having it is the safety part!  

 

 

Hiked both Vernal and Nevada falls in Yosemite in addition to spending a week camping on Bass Lake. Great trips, no one got hurt and none of the cars broke down on the way there!

[Thunderheads]

On 7/18/2023 at 2:31 PM, concertman1971 said:

definition of a legal slide NFHS is (in part) "buttocks on ground" and "no rolling or cross body slides". This slide violated both of those conditions. Also, take a look at R1 left shoulder. that is not a direct line between the bases. 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cuzv4yBA6mT/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

 

@Catch18 @The Man in BlueThere is the video. Yes, my eyes/head followed the ball on the throw to 1b. I was really hoping that the PU would come up big and get it, but as soon as he didnt, i went back and got it. IMO, it was to egregious not to. 

Good call.   Your PU should have nailed that for you, but still, nice job, .... that's FPSR all day.

[The Man in Blue]

3 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

Good call.   Your PU should have nailed that for you, but still, nice job, .... that's FPSR all day.

Interference.  That's interference all day.  

 

 

😉

[Thunderheads]

30 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Interference.  That's interference all day.  

 

 

😉

That's a good one! LOL!    Now, .. honestly ...... we all know that it's "INTERFERENCE."    "FPSR" is the descriptor of the INT via NFHS rules ... 

I mean, at the end of the day, ... you point and say "that's interference!"      

[The Man in Blue]

It may be ticky-tacky on my part ... FPSR or Force Play Slide Rule does not appear anywhere in the NFHS rulebook. 

The term was used in a previous year's NFHS POE to provide emphasis on the need to watch for this act of interference.  The term was used incorrectly, IMO, as it then equates itself to NCAA and OBR which have VERY different rules on this (the runner MUST slide).

Why do I pick this booger?  Because too many NFHS umpires still think it means the player HAS TO SLIDE when we use that terminology.

[Thunderheads]

15 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Why do I pick this booger?  Because too many NFHS umpires still think it means the player HAS TO SLIDE when we use that terminology.

It's very clear in NFHS that a 'runner is NEVER REQUIRED TO SLIDE' ....  shame that we have umpires that look past that  

[The Man in Blue]

It’s very clear if you ever open the book … 😈

[SeeingEyeDog]

44 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

It’s very clear if you ever open the book … 😈

If you are mentoring a new umpire, the next time you meet up, ask them to bring their rulebooks. If they aren't falling apart, they are doing it wrong.

~Dawg

[noumpere]

59 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

It’s very clear if you ever open the book … 😈

It's very clear if you open all the relevant publications

[Jimurray]

On 7/19/2023 at 7:16 PM, The Man in Blue said:

 

I guess it is perspective, but I see OBR as more restrictive because the slide IS required.  NFHS does not require the slide because they see more injuries from kids sliding with improper technique.  Ironic that not having it is the safety part!  

 

 

I don't see where a slide is required in OBR. I think this was debated previously but I have not been convinced:

"(j) Sliding to Bases on Double Play Attempts If a runner does not engage in a bona fide slide, and initiates (or attempts to make) contact with the fielder for the purpose of breaking up a double play, he should be called for interference under this Rule 6.01. A “bona fide slide” for purposes of Rule 6.01 occurs when the runner: (1)  begins his slide (i.e., makes contact with the ground) before reaching the base; (2)  is able and attempts to reach the base with his hand or foot; 77 Rule 6.01(j)(3) to 6.02(a)(3) (3)  is able and attempts to remain on the base (except home plate) after completion of the slide; and (4)  slides within reach of the base without changing his pathway for the purpose of initiating contact with a fielder. A runner who engages in a “bona fide slide” shall not be called for interference under this Rule 6.01, even in cases where the runner makes contact with the fielder as a consequence of a permissible slide. In addition, interference shall not be called where a runner’s contact with the fielder was caused by the fielder being positioned in (or moving into) the runner’s legal pathway to the base."

[Kevin_K]

3 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

If you are mentoring a new umpire, the next time you meet up, ask them to bring their rulebooks. If they aren't falling apart, they are doing it wrong.

~Dawg

Newer umpires are probably younger, which means their rule books will never become dogeared. If you haven't heard, electronic books and resources are, by far, the norm in education.

Books are on the same pile with walkmen, multi CD shufflers, and floppy disks

[Jimurray]

2 hours ago, Kevin_K said:

Newer umpires are probably younger, which means their rule books will never become dogeared. If you haven't heard, electronic books and resources are, by far, the norm in education.

Books are on the same pile with walkmen, multi CD shufflers, and floppy disks

We are going really off topic. To the point of the topic That was an obvious violation of the Federation rules in the OP. To the younger guys and us old folks that have gone digital, don’t drop your device in the toilet. I would have to say if your first encounter is to thumb though a paper version of the book you will find it much easier to peruse or search electronic versions later.