Stepping back from the set position: Balk?

[Guest phantomtides]

NFHS rule set.

A right-handed pitcher stretches (pivot foot parallel to the rubber) and then sets. After he has set, he steps back with his LEFT (non-pivot) foot — i.e., his left foot takes one step in the direction of first base, and he places the left foot on the ground again. Without hesitation, he continues, stepping toward home to deliver the pitch. It basically looks like he's winding up by taking a step with his non-pivot foot, but he's stepping toward first, and it begins from a proper set position.

 

I warned the pitcher (it's 12U and there's one warning), and later balked him on the same thing. Video here: https://bit.ly/40vvqQV The boy's father asked me about it after the game — totally respectful and polite.

The closest rule I can find is 6-2, Article 4(a), which prohibits "any feinting toward the batter or first base..." But a "feint" is something intended to deceive, and this was not — it was part of his "natural" delivery.

NFHS Rules by Topic book provides a more direct interpretation (though of a different situation), in 6.1.3(H): "If nonpivot foot is lifted after the stop, he must immediately pitch or step directly toward base and throw toward that base." I read that to say that if his left foot moves toward first base from the set position, he must then deliver the ball to first base, and cannot change that motion to a pitch.

So, the question, in case it isn't clear: From a set position, is the pitcher permitted to step backwards, and THEN subsequently toward the plate to deliver the pitch? Or is the "double-step" a balk, because once he's set, he must step directly toward home plate, or toward a base where he attempts (or, if permitted, fakes) a pickoff?

And, second, does the answer change depending on whether there are runners on base?

Thanks, folks!

[noumpere]

Balk.

 

With no runners, it's a ball in FED, but I'd be much more lenient with no runners.

 

The problem is that in MLB, you see this move if the pitcher has declared to be in the wind-up.

[wolfe_man]

Agree, as described balk with runners on.

With no runners on, I'd be a lot more lenient also as it's not deceiving anyone or appearing to be a move towards 1B.

[Jimurray]

20 minutes ago, noumpere said:

Balk.

 

With no runners, it's a ball in FED, but I'd be much more lenient with no runners.

 

The problem is that in MLB, you see this move if the pitcher has declared to be in the wind-up.

Another problem, which I haven't seen in MLB, is in stretching to a set did the pitcher reposition the free leg as some do. Does that now indicate the set and a sideways windup is not allowed? Putting the hands together as a sideways windup pitcher is allowed and not considered coming set but I wonder about leg repositioning.

[BLWizzRanger]

I had this same thing in a HS varsity game and still am kicking myself for letting it go.  But, again, my biggest ire is that the team is 20 games into the season, traveled out of state for multiple games, and the kid had never been called on it.

The game before I had a kid in the windup take a step and pause for a beat or two before continuing his delivery.  He did it with no runners on and I let it go but I did tell the coaches that it was illegal but I wasn't going to call it with no runners on.  Guess what? he did it with a runner on third that I balked.  While no one was tossed, there was a short, terse discussion about it.

NFHS 6.1 (2) and (3)  - 'without interruption'  and NFHS 6.2 (4)  - 'continuous motion' have the definitions I will be using. 

I am going to pick up the dirty end of the stick from now on.  For consistency sake, call it the same no matter if there are runners or not.

[Jimurray]

21 minutes ago, BLWizzRanger said:

I had this same thing in a HS varsity game and still am kicking myself for letting it go.  But, again, my biggest ire is that the team is 20 games into the season, traveled out of state for multiple games, and the kid had never been called on it.

The game before I had a kid in the windup take a step and pause for a beat or two before continuing his delivery.  He did it with no runners on and I let it go but I did tell the coaches that it was illegal but I wasn't going to call it with no runners on.  Guess what? he did it with a runner on third that I balked.  While no one was tossed, there was a short, terse discussion about it.

NFHS 6.1 (2) and (3)  - 'without interruption'  and NFHS 6.2 (4)  - 'continuous motion' have the definitions I will be using. 

I am going to pick up the dirty end of the stick from now on.  For consistency sake, call it the same no matter if there are runners or not.

Unfortunately FED does not allow the “Japanese windup” as OBR and NCAA do. It gives the runner an advantage but some might argue high school batters are put at a disadvantage. 

[ousafe]

The direction from my association is to allow this step back, as it does not disadvantage the runner (actually it gives the runner an advantage). However, the step back commits the pitcher to pitch.

However, any repositioning of the pivot foot would be a balk with runner(s) on.

Fwiw, I would rather just adhere to Fed.

[SH0102]

Something I learned that has helped is to be more attentive during pitching changes and warm ups. Preventative umpiring is your friend here. He *likely* did this during warm ups, there is your chance to tell him and educate him in a low key situation. “Hey, I can let that go with no one on, but when runners are on base, you can not use the windup from the set position”

[Guest phantomtides]

Yes, very good. I called it immediately, with a warning (so it had no tangible effect on the game), but I could have said something in warmups. Don’t know know why I didn’t. Thanks.

[BLWizzRanger]

25 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

Something I learned that has helped is to be more attentive during pitching changes and warm ups. Preventative umpiring is your friend here. He *likely* did this during warm ups, there is your chance to tell him and educate him in a low key situation. “Hey, I can let that go with no one on, but when runners are on base, you can not use the windup from the set position”

I actually went to the coach in the first game between innings and told him the rule, aka, giving a heads up that I am looking for it, aka preventive umpiring.  The pitcher decided to test it.

With your last quoted sentence, its a illegal pitch and should be called. But, I was leaving it to the PU.  WTBS, which is the least devastating to the defense and will tell everyone what will be tolerated?  A ball to the batter. I would rather set the expectation with the least harm than calling it when the winning run is on third.  Personally, that is what I am going to try and do.

[The Man in Blue]

Ask and ye shall receive ... see today's series of videos from Close Call Sports!

 

[Jimurray]

36 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Ask and ye shall receive ... see today's series of videos from Close Call Sports!

 

I don't know what ask this would be answering. That's a legal windup in OBR and NCAA if declared with runners on. That one was not declared and balked appropriately although I have wondered if some MLB umps have let that happen when I view some clips. Most of the time umps and runners should be able to discern a sideways pitcher's delivery because their set up while engaging is obvious as to windup or set. That's not a legal windup in FED with or without runners because if your foot is parallel to the rubber you are in the set and can't windup. But in warmups you can go out and tell the pitcher to rotate his pivot foot a little so that it is not perceived as parallel. If you want more guidance to discern a parallel foot position the almost parallel hybrid pitcher will actually lift and turn his pivot foot that few degrees in his delivery convincing you that he wasn't parallel to start with.

[Richvee]

11 hours ago, Jimurray said:

Another problem, which I haven't seen in MLB, is in stretching to a set did the pitcher reposition the free leg as some do. Does that now indicate the set and a sideways windup is not allowed? Putting the hands together as a sideways windup pitcher is allowed and not considered coming set but I wonder about leg repositioning.

This is what NCAA specifically wants to be an illegal pitch. 

[The Man in Blue]

@Jimurray … I just meant video of what was being discussed and the fact of the timing.  Yes, different in different codes.