Why am I chasing the strike zone? How do I...how do we stop or minimize this?

[SeeingEyeDog]

Greetings brothers,

To get ready for this season, I attended 3 cage sessions and worked 4 varsity scrimmages of the mid to high variety. Last night, I had my first game of the season, a mid level JV game with a final score of 12-4. The game took 3 hours for 7 innings (no time limits here, mercy rules are 15 after 3 or 10 after 4). I had the plate and despite getting good marks in all my pre-season work, I walked off the field last night and my chief lit me up in the parking lot, "I've been out here 12 years! That was the longest JV game I have ever worked! You were way too tight, bro! You gotta' open it up with the score that lopsided!" He had also been motioning to me while in B and C that I needed to go wider. 

In retrospect, as I replay the "film" of the game in my head...I absolutely agree my zone was too tight. I absolutely agree there were pitches I "could" have grabbed for strikes even though they were outside my zone.

Here's my conundrum...I have another plate tonight, mid-level varsity. As I mentally prepare for tonight's game, I am thinking about that zone last night being too tight for that game but, since tonight's game is varsity, that might be a good place to start the zone tonight, right? Yes? Am I doing it right?

Maybe there are no hard and fast rules for us but, we have to start to somewhere. So, where is that start point? We've all worked those games that featured 8 run or 12 run comebacks. Maybe someone has seen a 20 run comeback. Mathematically, short of a time limit game, there is no potential limit on a comeback. In 2001, CLE took 11 innings to overcome a 12 run deficit against SEA. An expanded zone might prevent those rare comebacks. Is that ok? If we need to open up, how do we evaluate WHEN it's time to open up? (Obviously, factors like F1's current location abilities are going to be a factor...) How do we evaluate HOW MUCH to open up? (We know coaches can see up and down but, perhaps not side to side so, there appears to be more room to expand side to side.)

Is it a realistic goal to set for myself as a plate umpire to walk off the field with a minimum of static from coaches about my zone AND a minimum of static from my partners about my zone? Because I've also had experiences where I opened up to move a game along and had partners tell me in post-game...Bro, your zone stunk tonight. Tighten that up. How do we strike a balance between moving the game along and accuracy?

~Dawg

[Mister B]

This early in the season, open it up. For me JV2 and frosh are getting anything where the ball is between or over the lines. Later in the season, the majority of the ball has to be between the 2 lines. Varsity is getting anything where the majority of the ball is between the 2 lines. Later in the season that will tighten up. Right now, I'm looking to build up the confidence of the pitchers, so that later in the season they don't completely crap the bed after walking a batter. 

Coaches need to stress pitching to contact. Let the defense do their jobs. Trying to strike everyone out is a bad idea. 

[maven]

2 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Here's my conundrum...I have another plate tonight, mid-level varsity. As I mentally prepare for tonight's game, I am thinking about that zone last night being too tight for that game but, since tonight's game is varsity, that might be a good place to start the zone tonight, right? Yes? Am I doing it right?

Well, no. But I can't comment on whether you're "doing it right," because I haven't seen you work. Still, almost all newer and intermediate umpires need to call more strikes.

It's not (or not only) about long games and getting to dinner/beer. It's about the nature of baseball, which is a defensive game. Calling more strikes has a number of advantages that result in better baseball.

1. Pitching: pitching is hard. Generally, you're getting the best available pitchers to start the game. The more strikes we call, the longer they get to play, and the better pitches we get. Pitching is hard: favor pitchers. Batters adjust.
2. Secondary pitches: when we're calling more strikes, more secondary pitches will also be strikes. These are typically "feel" pitches, and pitchers will throw them more and better when more of them are strikes.
3. Every base on balls adds 5 minutes to an amateur game. And nobody showed up to see walks.
4. More balls in play makes shorter innings, which keeps the defense in the game, resulting in better baseball and fewer errors.
5. Aim for 90–120 minutes for a 7 inning game. If we're not getting in that range consistently, we're not calling enough strikes.

The time range in #5 assumes that we're not allowing the biggest time waste of all, by not enforcing the time limit between innings. 5 pitches, let's go. Umpires who allow just 2 minutes extra per half inning add nearly 30 minutes to the length of their games, for action that never gets us closer to game's end.

[maven]

2 hours ago, Mister B said:

Coaches need to stress pitching to contact. Let the defense do their jobs. Trying to strike everyone out is a bad idea. 

Agreed. Strikeouts are fascist.

 

[The Man in Blue]

3 hours ago, maven said:

It's not (or not only) about long games and getting to dinner/beer. It's about the nature of baseball, which is a defensive game. Calling more strikes has a number of advantages that result in better baseball.

I don't disagree ... but this is the beginning of the incline to the FU strike.  If it is OK now ... 

6 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Maybe there are no hard and fast rules for us but, we have to start to somewhere. So, where is that start point?

Ahh ... but there are.  The strike zone is very clearly defined.

Don't get me wrong ... yes, I am poking at this a bit.  Before I go too far out on the whacko branch: The zone is very clearly defined ... but is it properly defined for all levels? 

When we start calling the black, giving that ball off, going between the lines, over the lines ... the catcher must catch it ... ALL of that is making our own use of the rules and NONE of those are strikes.  Neither was the FU strike.

So ... how steep is your incline?  Yes, there is an implied gentlemen's agreement that we need to keep the game moving.

Back to my point ... is one rule really appropriate for all levels?

 

[SH0102]

.

[JHumbert15]

I agree with the above about more strikes = better baseball.

I’ve had this discussion with others before, and here’s what I’ll tell you. Some may disagree with this, and some may feel the need to bash me for it. I don’t care. 
 

Unless I missed it, I didn’t see mention of what your zone was. 

Here’s mine:

(Spoiler, it’s the same from 16u-D2 college)

High/low is pretty much static. Bottom of the knee and I do my best to get the high “midpoint” strike. I’ll admit that’s very hard when D2 guys are throwing 90-94. That’s the pitch I have to work on.

In/Outside. At high school level *call the channel*. Please. I (and 95%+ of umpires) call the channel in D2 baseball. If you don’t, I’m telling you I think you should- get more strikes. And guess what? Coaches actually want us to call that pitch. “Lower level” D1 coaches (MAC) for example, want the channel called. If it’s in the channel, and doesn’t touch the chalk, and the catcher receives it well, call it. I understand there are variables here (namely the catcher). But, if we call the channel in D2 when a kid is dotting up, why don’t people call that in high school? I hate when guys say “tighten up the corners for high school varsity.” Why? I’m getting pitchers further out at higher levels. People will complain about having a shoe box for a zone, but if you open up to call the channel guys will swing the bat and you won’t hear it. I’m not telling you to go get that pitch when he’s set up middle or in and the dude throws one 1.5 balls of the plate. Obviously, you can’t get that pitch. I would argue in high school you might be able to. It depends. College? No. 
 

High school baseball is *not* the place where I try to show everyone what my interpretation of the strike zone is. This may shock some people, but when people talk about “tightening it up” as the season goes on, I disagree. Even if I were working the state championship for HS and it’s the D1 champ game- call the channel. This goes back to my point above about what is called in college. I’m there to get strikes. If they throw strikes, call it. On that note, remember -> everything is a strike. Let the pitch convince you it’s a ball, not that it’s a strike. When it leaves his hand it’s a strike until it’s not. Every time. You’ll call more strikes, hear less bickering about how tight you are, kids will swing, it’ll be better baseball, and it’ll be more fun. 
 

You say this:

8 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

As I mentally prepare for tonight's game, I am thinking about that zone last night being too tight for that game but, since tonight's game is varsity, that might be a good place to start the zone tonight, right? Yes? Am I doing this right?

I think you’re overthinking it. Picking a spot to “start the zone” could be a recipe for disaster. Call the channel at every level. Don’t miss the bottom of the knee. Try to work and get that high strike. Nobody likes it. I don’t. Especially when someone throws 88+. But guess what? If you consistently call it, people will get used to it. (And by the book, it’s a strike). It’s a pitch NCAA wants us to work on and I’ll be the first to admit it’s hard. But if someone gets it at college, get in in high school.

 

 

 

[umpstu]

3 hours ago, JHumbert15 said:

I agree with the above about more strikes = better baseball.

I’ve had this discussion with others before, and here’s what I’ll tell you. Some may disagree with this, and some may feel the need to bash me for it. I don’t care. 
 

Unless I missed it, I didn’t see mention of what your zone was. 

Here’s mine:

(Spoiler, it’s the same from 16u-D2 college)

High/low is pretty much static. Bottom of the knee and I do my best to get the high “midpoint” strike. I’ll admit that’s very hard when D2 guys are throwing 90-94. That’s the pitch I have to work on.

In/Outside. At high school level *call the channel*. Please. I (and 95%+ of umpires) call the channel in D2 baseball. If you don’t, I’m telling you I think you should- get more strikes. And guess what? Coaches actually want us to call that pitch. “Lower level” D1 coaches (MAC) for example, want the channel called. If it’s in the channel, and doesn’t touch the chalk, and the catcher receives it well, call it. I understand there are variables here (namely the catcher). But, if we call the channel in D2 when a kid is dotting up, why don’t people call that in high school? I hate when guys say “tighten up the corners for high school varsity.” Why? I’m getting pitchers further out at higher levels. People will complain about having a shoe box for a zone, but if you open up to call the channel guys will swing the bat and you won’t hear it. I’m not telling you to go get that pitch when he’s set up middle or in and the dude throws one 1.5 balls of the plate. Obviously, you can’t get that pitch. I would argue in high school you might be able to. It depends. College? No. 
 

High school baseball is *not* the place where I try to show everyone what my interpretation of the strike zone is. This may shock some people, but when people talk about “tightening it up” as the season goes on, I disagree. Even if I were working the state championship for HS and it’s the D1 champ game- call the channel. This goes back to my point above about what is called in college. I’m there to get strikes. If they throw strikes, call it. On that note, remember -> everything is a strike. Let the pitch convince you it’s a ball, not that it’s a strike. When it leaves his hand it’s a strike until it’s not. Every time. You’ll call more strikes, hear less bickering about how tight you are, kids will swing, it’ll be better baseball, and it’ll be more fun. 
 

You say this:

I think you’re overthinking it. Picking a spot to “start the zone” could be a recipe for disaster. Call the channel at every level. Don’t miss the bottom of the knee. Try to work and get that high strike. Nobody likes it. I don’t. Especially when someone throws 88+. But guess what? If you consistently call it, people will get used to it. (And by the book, it’s a strike). It’s a pitch NCAA wants us to work on and I’ll be the first to admit it’s hard. But if someone gets it at college, get in in high school.

 

 

 

What is the channel?

[noumpere]

6 hours ago, umpstu said:

What is the channel?

Between the plate and the batter's box.

JHUmbert is saying "it's a strike as long as any part of the ball does not touch the line of the batter's box" -- and that's only a bit wider than "it's a strike only if part of the ball touches part of the plate".

 

I agree that what he described should be a strike at almost all levels (and it was a strike when I worked D-1 -- that *may* have changed.

[SH0102]

The “defined strike zone” as ManInBlue mentioned is the same in little league as it is in MLB. That’s the problem with “going by the book”. You can’t expect little kids and HS kids to be able to throw quality pitches at edges of the zone. If you squeeze them, they don’t have the ability to “just bring it in an inch or two” consistently, they will try to just groove it bc that’s all they can do. 
 

As JH said, in college, up through D2, coaches have told me they generally get 1-2 ball widths off as strikes (yes coaches). One ball width takes you to start of chalk, 2 is all chalk.

I myself go one “the channel” in college and 2 in HS and rarely have issues.

The other thing is to think of the zone as a pear (or blob). You can get more off the plate in middle of zone (height wise) than at top or bottom.  I don’t go very far out at top and bottom of zone.

I was at a camp last summer and a very respected person told us a story. A power 5 umpire scored 100% on trackman, didn’t miss a single pitch. But he was berated the entire game by coaches, fans, pitchers, and coaches gave him a bad eval when they filled it out.  Why? How is that possible?  Bc he was perceived as too tight, he made pitchers throw way more pitches, more pitching changes, pitches that “look like they’re there” but are 0.05” off he balled, and everyone was frustrated.

Computer said he was great. ManInBlue would say he was to the letter with the defined zone and he would be right. But everyone hated it.

Dont call anything egregious a strike, don’t go too low (that’s the one direction you’ll get the most grief) but be generous.

As a Big Ten umpire told me once, “I keep going further until I hear complaints and then I know to bring it back to the previous pitch, that was the limit”. You hear about one pitch and then are done.

[JHumbert15]

40 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

The other thing is to think of the zone as a pear (or blob). You can get more off the plate in middle of zone (height wise) than at top or bottom.  I don’t go very far out at top and bottom of the zone.

This is a good point as well. If you’re calling plate then sure, it’s a box. But in reality for most of us that are not D1 BIG or SEC umpires (or MiLB), you can’t get the pitch that’s 1.5 balls outside, and at the midpoint at the top of the zone. This holds especially true when kids are throwing high 80- low 90s.

 

43 minutes ago, SH0102 said:

As a Big Ten umpire told me once, “I keep going further until I hear complaints and then I know to bring it back to the previous pitch, that was the limit”.

Hahahaha who could this have been??? Lol 

[SH0102]

11 minutes ago, JHumbert15 said:

Hahahaha who could this have been??? Lol 

Was at a camp, no one I know personally. Just added Big Ten to demonstrate this is done even at high levels of ball, higher than I have ever plated

[dumbdumb]

9 hours ago, umpstu said:

What is the channel?

If u do softball???, They call it 'the river'.

[The Man in Blue]

17 minutes ago, dumbdumb said:

If u do softball???, They call it 'the river'.

Why does that term always make me cringe?  If we have a river on the field, we have a rain out.

Oh I know why, because I only hear it used by TV announcers and parents who think using cool terms make them sound smart.  😉

[concertman1971]

Here is the scatter plot from a D1 game where the field has Trackman. If at the D1 level they can call the "buffer zone" (peach area around the grey box) a strike and not get dinged for it, then we at the d2/3, NAIA, JUCO, HS etc levels can most certainly call at least those pitches strikes. 

[JHumbert15]

41 minutes ago, concertman1971 said:

This is cool, and I think it even shows perspective on the high pitch, and how we could be going and getting that way more than we do. Again, IMO it's the hardest pitch to get and the one where you'll get the most grief, but at the very least you have to get that up through D3. To the OP, take those at the HS level all day. I do. More strikes = more outs, and who doesn't like either of those? D2 and above it gets a lot harder, but at least for me I'm always trying to work hard to see that and get it consistently. It's where I need to improve.

[concertman1971]

1 hour ago, JHumbert15 said:

This is cool, and I think it even shows perspective on the high pitch, and how we could be going and getting that way more than we do. Again, IMO it's the hardest pitch to get and the one where you'll get the most grief, but at the very least you have to get that up through D3. It's where I need to improve.

Yep. I have been working on calling that pitch at the top a strike this year at the JUCO/NAIA/D2 3/HS level. You will get looks the 1st or 2nd time you call it, but they adjust. You can see in the scatter plot my guy could have gotten 6 more strikes. He is a D1 guy who gets TV time and should get a regional this season. If he struggles calling the high pitch, and he gets real feedback, you all know it's that much harder for us. 

[umpstu]

2 hours ago, dumbdumb said:

If u do softball???, They call it 'the river'.

Been working high school and college baseball for 29 years and had never heard that expression.  I am so sheltered.  I do teach to get strikes in that area and that a pitch is always a strike until somebody screws it up.

 

[concertman1971]

Some more perspective from the same game as the scatter plot above. Some info cut off so I don't reveal who he is or the game/conference 

[SH0102]

1 hour ago, concertman1971 said:

Some more perspective from the same game as the scatter plot above. Some info cut off so I don't reveal who he is or the game/conference 

Willing to bet he got more comments about the balls in the zone than the strikes out of it

[The Man in Blue]

2 hours ago, umpstu said:

Been working high school and college baseball for 29 years and had never heard that expression.  I am so sheltered.  I do teach to get strikes in that area and that a pitch is always a strike until somebody screws it up.

 

Nor should you.  The term should never be used.  I say this as a guy who has called a lot of softball.  There are strikes and there are balls.  That's it.  There is not a "No Man's Land" where it isn't a strike, but you should call it anyway.

Never use this term.  Strikes.  Balls.  That's it.

 

Now ... go call more strikes.  😉

 

[dumbdumb]

2 hours ago, concertman1971 said:

Yep. I have been working on calling that pitch at the top a strike this year at the JUCO/NAIA/D2 3/HS level. You will get looks the 1st or 2nd time you call it, but they adjust. You can see in the scatter plot my guy could have gotten 6 more strikes. He is a D1 guy who gets TV time and should get a regional this season. If he struggles calling the high pitch, and he gets real feedback, you all know it's that much harder for us. 

Me thinks they are in the sec, from the article last year, and if they work x amount of conference games and meet the experience requirements they are eligible for a regional to start.

now if you place 2 baseballs side by side touching each other, and one of the baseballs is touching the corner of the plate by a fraction and the other ball should be just touching the batters box line by a fraction. So it's just how much you want the ball that is touching the plate to overlap the ball touching the batters box, to decide how much off the plate (or none at all) you or the league or coaches think should count as a strike. Just remember, if you put the plate ball squarely on top of the batters box ball, the pitch has missed the plate by 3 inches. And who knows, my calculations may be way off in left field picking daisies or is it 4 leaf clover.

https://www.secsports.com/article/33510576/sec-utilize-trackman-2022-baseball-season

[refump10]

On 3/17/2023 at 9:56 PM, JHumbert15 said:

I agree with the above about more strikes = better baseball.

I’ve had this discussion with others before, and here’s what I’ll tell you. Some may disagree with this, and some may feel the need to bash me for it. I don’t care. 
 

Unless I missed it, I didn’t see mention of what your zone was. 

Here’s mine:

(Spoiler, it’s the same from 16u-D2 college)

High/low is pretty much static. Bottom of the knee and I do my best to get the high “midpoint” strike. I’ll admit that’s very hard when D2 guys are throwing 90-94. That’s the pitch I have to work on.

In/Outside. At high school level *call the channel*. Please. I (and 95%+ of umpires) call the channel in D2 baseball. If you don’t, I’m telling you I think you should- get more strikes. And guess what? Coaches actually want us to call that pitch. “Lower level” D1 coaches (MAC) for example, want the channel called. If it’s in the channel, and doesn’t touch the chalk, and the catcher receives it well, call it. I understand there are variables here (namely the catcher). But, if we call the channel in D2 when a kid is dotting up, why don’t people call that in high school? I hate when guys say “tighten up the corners for high school varsity.” Why? I’m getting pitchers further out at higher levels. People will complain about having a shoe box for a zone, but if you open up to call the channel guys will swing the bat and you won’t hear it. I’m not telling you to go get that pitch when he’s set up middle or in and the dude throws one 1.5 balls of the plate. Obviously, you can’t get that pitch. I would argue in high school you might be able to. It depends. College? No. 
 

High school baseball is *not* the place where I try to show everyone what my interpretation of the strike zone is. This may shock some people, but when people talk about “tightening it up” as the season goes on, I disagree. Even if I were working the state championship for HS and it’s the D1 champ game- call the channel. This goes back to my point above about what is called in college. I’m there to get strikes. If they throw strikes, call it. On that note, remember -> everything is a strike. Let the pitch convince you it’s a ball, not that it’s a strike. When it leaves his hand it’s a strike until it’s not. Every time. You’ll call more strikes, hear less bickering about how tight you are, kids will swing, it’ll be better baseball, and it’ll be more fun. 
 

You say this:

I think you’re overthinking it. Picking a spot to “start the zone” could be a recipe for disaster. Call the channel at every level. Don’t miss the bottom of the knee. Try to work and get that high strike. Nobody likes it. I don’t. Especially when someone throws 88+. But guess what? If you consistently call it, people will get used to it. (And by the book, it’s a strike). It’s a pitch NCAA wants us to work on and I’ll be the first to admit it’s hard. But if someone gets it at college, get in in high school.

 

 

 

This.  More strikes = better baseball. (Within reason). The game is better when strikes are called. 

[GreyhoundAggie]

Great discussion in this thread. And something I have been trying to preach to the new umpires coming into the organization.

I'm trying to grab more strikes as well. And you generally hear a lot more complaining for calling a close pitch a ball, then grabbing those close pitches. Just be consistent is all coaches/players ever ask.

[noumpere]

I've posted this before, but:

Strikes lead to Outs

Outs ==> Innings

Innings ==> Games

Games ==> Paychecks

Paychecks ==> Beer

Beer ==> Sleep

 

Sleep is good.  Call more strikes