Wow

[Guest David]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZTdgnx4RL/
 

I don’t know how many of you are on tik tok but this was posted and the comments are terrible against the ump. He warns, restricts and ejects. Did he not follow guild lines? Should he have counted and called ballgame?

[cjroman]

Overall...this needs to happen more often. Maybe, if it happens with some regularity, parents and coaches may finally start to get it. 

Definitely not going to judge the nuances of the video based on that short clip. Maybe there is history with that coach, maybe the assignor have instructions to limit time to end the game to 15 seconds. Who knows. Bottom line is "Coach" arguing balls and strikes and crossed the line.  Nothing worse than a 12u "Coach" who acts like they're God's Gift To Baseball.

To echo comments I've seen here: There aren't enough ejections in youth baseball, period. 

 

[Guest Human]

Was he wrong in taking it to ejection?  Absolutely not.

Did coach deserve the ejection?  Yes.

Was the umpire wrong in goading a coach?  YES, a million times.  I see a lot wrong with how he handled the situation, especially goading the coach with a verbal 15-second countdown that really has no basis in any rule set I've ever seen.

Maybe it's because he didn't appear to have a partner to help him if things went off the deep end?  Who knows.

Our job is to officiate a game involving humans, and we're human too...  I would not have handled that situation with the Barney Fife approach, personally (look it up, youngsters).

Heard "go get the tournament director"...  wonder what she/he thought of it, especially caught on video.

[wolfe_man]

People won't learn, they never learn.  Did the parents get upset at the idiot coach for having caused the situation? No, instead they yell at the umpire for leaving (grow up, get over yourself, what a baby, etc), who was in the right here (even if I happen to disagree with the really short leash and especially the 15-second countdown).  They are why we've lost 50K officials in a little over 3 years in this country and why it will continue.  They think they are justified in griping AT the official, not TO the official.  Instead of demanding the coach act like a professional and get off the field when ejected, they get mad at the authority figure and belittle him.  I'm actually proud of the guy for walking off, even if I think he may have contributed a bit to it himself in how he chose to handle the situation.

There needs to be more and better training provided to all amateur (read as non-professional) umpires in regards to what we can and should be tolerating and allowing.  Some of us are taking way too much and need to EJ more, while some are tossing people for saying anything to them and still others allow coaches to do whatever they please and get away with it.  We need more feedback and training so we present a more unified front in setting the standards for what is, and what is not, acceptable from coaches and players.

[aaluck]

3 hours ago, Guest Human said:

Heard "go get the tournament director"...  wonder what she/he thought of it, especially caught on video.

Here is where the REAL problem usually starts.  If the TD backed up the umpire (rarely happens), then no problem.  However, if the TD didn't and allowed them to continue the game (with the same--if the guy was stupid enough to come back, or different umpires) the parents and coaches now think this is acceptable behavior and that the UMPIRE did something wrong.

Id love to know what happened next.

[Mudisfun]

Chatting with one of my assignors the other day and he relayed a story that happened a couple days prior.

He assigned an umpire to a youth game, who when he walked up, the teams started bitching as he has had them 3 or 4 times this season. Umpire told them all to piss off, walked back to his car, called the assignor and quit on the spot. Guess on the positive side, they did not have to complain about him officiating their game and they all got to go to pizza early? Solo game of course, so no game.

 

Just amazes me what people expect us to put up with. SO many of the videos people post just show the crap the official has dealt with up to the point where the umpire finally ejects. 90% of the time, these videos just make the coaches, players and fans look and sound like spoiled children; which of course often they are.  

 

[wolfe_man]

I was PU at a HS Varsity game the other night.  14-3 drubbing of the home team by another local league team. 

As I leave the field with my partner, a mom tells me that I took the ball out of #5's (# changed to protect the innocent) hands all night - and he's just a freshman!  As if to suggest, I had made the drive to the field with the sole ambition of trying to ruin someone's night, so I picked on a freshman as my target.

My partner says, "did he take up a bat and score 14 runs for the other team too?"

Some of these people just aren't living in the same reality as the rest of us. 

 

[umpstu]

Real tough guy picking on a freshman there wolfe_man.  Way to go. lol.

[HokieUmp]

6 hours ago, Guest Human said:

Heard "go get the tournament director"...  wonder what she/he thought of it, especially caught on video.

Let me say:  I have NOT watched the video, based on the comments I saw, since I don't need/want the aggravation.

But I don't wonder what the TD thought of it .... *at all*.  Here's my rough transcript:  "These teams pay me frankly stupid amounts of money to put on these dog-and-pony shows.  Umpires cost me money.  Parents and coaches yell pretty loud.  F*#K that umpire."

[beerguy55]

10 hours ago, Guest Human said:

Was the umpire wrong in goading a coach?  YES, a million times.  I see a lot wrong with how he handled the situation, especially goading the coach with a verbal 15-second countdown that really has no basis in any rule set I've ever seen.

Unclear on how any of this is "goading".

Does the 15-second timer really need a basis in rule?  Failure to comply with an ejection is a forfeiture, is it not?  How long shall the umpire wait for the ejected person to comply?  Five seconds?  15?  Ten minutes?  Sunrise?   He's at least providing clarity.

23 hours ago, cjroman said:

Bottom line is "Coach" arguing balls and strikes and crossed the line.

What if "Coach" came down the line and asked "Mr. Umpire, I'm not arguing your judgment...can you clarify the rule for me please...where is the top of the strike zone?"

If umpire says something like "top of the shoulder" then that's not a judgment discussion anymore, it's a rule issue, and protestable.   But as a coach I don't know if I'm arguing judgment or rules until I ask.

[cjroman]

10 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

 

What if "Coach" came down the line and asked "Mr. Umpire, I'm not arguing your judgment...can you clarify the rule for me please...where is the top of the strike zone?"

If umpire says something like "top of the shoulder" then that's not a judgment discussion anymore, it's a rule issue, and protestable.   But as a coach I don't know if I'm arguing judgment or rules until I ask.

 "Coach, the strike zone is defined by the rulebook. I had that last pitch up/down/out/in/a strike, Ok, let's play."

[Guest Human]

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

Unclear on how any of this is "goading".

Does the 15-second timer really need a basis in rule?  Failure to comply with an ejection is a forfeiture, is it not?  How long shall the umpire wait for the ejected person to comply?  Five seconds?  15?  Ten minutes?  Sunrise?   He's at least providing clarity.

I don't see MLB umpires screaming a 15 second countdown to managers out loud.  It's sufficient to tell the coach he's ejected.  Stand silent and count off 15 seconds to let him process.  Then tell him, in a reasonable raised voice, that he has 30 seconds to leave the field or his team will forfeit the game.  Then stand silently and count it in your head.

That gives his assistant coaches time to grab him and pull him away.  It gives the parents time to process it and know what's going on.  As it stands, the umpire didn't list the consequences and the parents don't necessarily understand them.  No wonder they called him names.

And yes, counting down a far-too-short 15 second timer like a raging parent of a 3 year old is goading.  Officials are supposed to be better than that.  Ask Dan Bellino.

[Richvee]

1 hour ago, Guest Human said:

don't see MLB umpires screaming a 15 second countdown to managers out loud

Very little of what you see in MLB is applicable to youth baseball. That’s one of the biggest problems with youth baseball. IT ISN’T MLB. 

1 hour ago, Guest Human said:

No wonder they called him names.

So being ignorant to rules and/or protocol gives them a pass for poor behavior and berating an official?  

[Dottelife]

OMG where to start? 
Coach comes down the line and PU tells him straight up don’t come here if it’s about balls and strikes, he still comes and talks about balls and strikes. Ump did good to immediately restrict him and then eject him. I would never start a countdown out loud like that. I simply go to coaches and say who is the new acting manager (I assume he was the manager or should have been dumped as soon as he left the coaching box) and tell him you got 30 seconds to get him walking towards the parking lot or I am calling ballgame. What really irritates me is the comments in the video of parents and coaches that honestly think they have the right to question balls and strikes. Parents are stupid so I get it but a coach should know better. I have ejected more in the last 5 years then I did in the first 15. It’s out of control. 

[beerguy55]

14 hours ago, cjroman said:

 "Coach, the strike zone is defined by the rulebook."

Not good enough...I'll give you an example...

Ground ball down the line, slow roller, that clearly goes around first in fair territory, then settles in foul territory a few feet beyond.

Umpire calls foul ball.

Upon questioning the umpire, he declares "fair/foul is defined in the rule book - I have ball settled in foul territory - foul ball".   At this point I have no idea if the umpire judges the ball rolled foul before reaching first base (I've seen that happen more than once, especially solo)...or if the umpire doesn't understand the rule.    Until I know what HIS application of the rule is I don't know if I'm arguing a judgment (which I won't) or disputing a rule (which I will - ie. quick attempt to convince him, then protest).   Telling me "it's in the rule book" doesn't resolve that.

I have to be able to ask, in a mature and professional manner, and get a mature and professional response, if the umpire is applying the rule correctly, within reason of course.

[cjroman]

3 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Not good enough...I'll give you an example...

Ground ball down the line, slow roller, that clearly goes around first in fair territory, then settles in foul territory a few feet beyond.

Umpire calls foul ball.

Upon questioning the umpire, he declares "fair/foul is defined in the rule book - I have ball settled in foul territory - foul ball".   At this point I have no idea if the umpire judges the ball rolled foul before reaching first base (I've seen that happen more than once, especially solo)...or if the umpire doesn't understand the rule.    Until I know what HIS application of the rule is I don't know if I'm arguing a judgment (which I won't) or disputing a rule (which I will - ie. quick attempt to convince him, then protest).   Telling me "it's in the rule book" doesn't resolve that.

I have to be able to ask, in a mature and professional manner, and get a mature and professional response, if the umpire is applying the rule correctly, within reason of course.

 "Mature and professional" wasn't displayed by the Coach in the video. You're using conjecture for things that didn't happen in the video. All I'm saying is based on the video, good ejection, but not going to get into the forfeit countdown without more background/context. 

[beerguy55]

2 hours ago, cjroman said:

 "Mature and professional" wasn't displayed by the Coach in the video. You're using conjecture for things that didn't happen in the video. All I'm saying is based on the video, good ejection, but not going to get into the forfeit countdown without more background/context. 

I wasn't asking about the video, specifically.  It's a good ejection.  I was asking a hypothetical.

 

However, in the context of the video - barring any nonsense that may have happened earlier in the game, which we don't know one way or the other - the first person who speaks is the umpire, telling him that if he's just arguing the location of that pitch to turn around - there might be an argument there that the umpire appropriately set a boundary, and gave a pre-emptive warning...but what he also did was put the coach on the defensive, and took an aggressive posture based on what he believed/surmised/presumed the coach was going to ask  (ump would have looked awfully silly if coach was just coming to announce a sub)...so, WHAT IF the coach had, instead of responding the way he did, said "Can I just get clarification on the rule please...what's the top of the strike zone?"